Who can afford a new truck anymore?

[Loadstar]

They do the same thing here with 7.3's and 5.9's. I looked at an early 99 f250 bone stock low miles and they were asking $19,995. The lady told me that and I laughed in her face (made her mad). I couldn't hold back though. i love it when they say "it's never been chipped" you can't prove that on a 7.3. I got back in my 01 with similar miles that cost me over $10k less and laughed all the way back home. She couldn't tell me anything other than her husband looked it over and he is a certified mechanic. For that price she should have compression numbers posted on the window. For some reason people buy them but fools and their borrowed money are soon parted.

 

[Gods Country]

After reading through this thread it pretty much confirmed why my next truck (if at all possible) is going to be something from the eighties that has been either well cared for or rebuilt.

 

[Parkanzky]

After reading through this thread it pretty much confirmed why my next truck (if at all possible) is going to be something from the eighties that has been either well cared for or rebuilt.

The problem I ran into with that was that the capacities for those older trucks aren't in the same league as the newer trucks. So to tow >10k# with something built in the 80's, you're looking at a medium duty truck commercial truck instead of a heavy-duty pickup truck.

 

[Loadstar]

The problem I ran into with that was that the capacities for those older trucks aren't in the same league as the newer trucks. So to tow >10k# with something built in the 80's, you're looking at a medium duty truck commercial truck instead of a heavy-duty pickup truck.

I think people get a little too carried away with that though. I would rather tow a large load with medium truck than a pickup. I saw a dodge commercial with a backhoe and a skid steer on a trailer.... Yeah right

 

[Tomtint]

People have short memories, The 7.3 was a good motor for sure. However it was not without its problems. Auto transmissions were a 60,000 mile manditory rebuild or replace. Extra cam position sensors should be stored in the glove box, fuel pressure issues were always a threat to leave you stranded, and heavin forbid you need a oil pan... That is a. 1500.00 job all day long. .. I have had 7.3s 6.0s and now have a 2012 PSD. I managed to miss the 2 year 6.4. I can say for certain that my 2012 pulls better and shifts better than any 7.3 I ever owned. Knock on wood it has been trouble free since new.

 

[Parkanzky]

I think people get a little too carried away with that though. I would rather tow a large load with medium truck than a pickup. I saw a dodge commercial with a backhoe and a skid steer on a trailer.... Yeah right

I agree that you shouldn't decide what you can tow based on advertising photos, but my inlaws have a couple of new SRW Ram 3500's and they'll tow (IIRC) 17,000#. That's with plenty of payload capacity to handle the tongue weight of that trailer.

What do you have to buy from the 80's to get anywhere near that capacity?

 

[Jstpssng]

I agree that you shouldn't decide what you can tow based on advertising photos, but my inlaws have a couple of new SRW Ram 3500's and they'll tow (IIRC) 17,000#. That's with plenty of payload capacity to handle the tongue weight of that trailer.

What do you have to buy from the 80's to get anywhere near that capacity?

I agree with both you and Parkanzky, but when you get up in that weight capacity, the driver really determines the safe payload capacity. I recall a post a few years back when a TBN member told of almost losing it because some of the straps broke, his load shifted backwards, and he nearly lost control on a busy highway... It turns out that although he met all of the specs of his truck and trailer, the latter flexxed, breaking the tiedowns, and he went for a ride. Not everybody could have controlled it, but he did.

 

[Gods Country]

The problem I ran into with that was that the capacities for those older trucks aren't in the same league as the newer trucks. So to tow >10k# with something built in the 80's, you're looking at a medium duty truck commercial truck instead of a heavy-duty pickup truck.

I'm sure an older 3/4 ton can haul every bit what a newer equally matched truck can haul. 10k is pretty much max for any truck that isn't a 1 ton, unless you meant 10k gross, which isn't much.
I recently pulled about 9K with trailer for over 300 miles up countless big hills/mountains and my 2002 dodge with the old 360 did just fine.

 

[3930dave]

10k is pretty much max for any truck that isn't a 1 ton, unless you meant 10k gross, which isn't much.
I recently pulled about 9K with trailer for over 300 miles up countless big hills/mountains and my 2002 dodge with the old 360 did just fine.

It's different in other jurisdictions, but here, the only thing you can tow > 10,000# with a general license is a travel trailer.

There's been an arms-race with 1-ton towing capacity, but I suspect the truck dealers here don't tell people that you need a Class A CDL in Ontario to pull +10,000# utility loads with those new light-duty trucks.

Rgds, D.

 

[Parkanzky]

I'm sure an older 3/4 ton can haul every bit what a newer equally matched truck can haul. 10k is pretty much max for any truck that isn't a 1 ton, unless you meant 10k gross, which isn't much.
I recently pulled about 9K with trailer for over 300 miles up countless big hills/mountains and my 2002 dodge with the old 360 did just fine.

What do you mean "equally matched?" A 2015 Dodge Ram 2500 will pull over 17k# in many configurations. I've never seen a 3/4 ton truck from the '80s rated close to that.

 

[KiwiBro]

Auto inventories have risen to record highs as if the manufacturers actually want to drive themselves off the cliff. A mere blip is one thing but 60 months of rising inventories and the attendant pressure to make sales almost necessitates loose lending such that the sub-prime auto loan credit bubble will be a doozie when it bursts. As seems to be usual these days, the pathetic securitization machine is running riot behind the scenes and will magnify the losses into a tsunami of pain for someone. Guess who?

 

[kenmac]

I have pulled 14K with my 07 2500.. Pulling the load wasn't the issue.. It was stopping it.. 4 wheel trailer brakes and truck brakes....

 

[TomSeller]

I have pulled 14K with my 07 2500.. Pulling the load wasn't the issue.. It was stopping it.. 4 wheel trailer brakes and truck brakes....

Exactly.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Auto inventories have risen to record highs as if the manufacturers actually want to drive themselves off the cliff. A mere blip is one thing but 60 months of rising inventories and the attendant pressure to make sales almost necessitates loose lending such that the sub-prime auto loan credit bubble will be a doozie when it bursts. As seems to be usual these days, the pathetic securitization machine is running riot behind the scenes and will magnify the losses into a tsunami of pain for someone. Guess who?

KiwiBro I read yesterday there are $1 trillion out in vehicle loans in the USA, average amount is like $28K and monthly payments were $466, $488 or something like that. It talked about the number of repos that will develop will drive down used prices and call for discounting to make new sales as easy credit fades. Not sure what to make of this point of view but it wants to make me not borrow money for anything.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Posted once was enough.

 

[kenmac]

there is a new car /truck dealership not too far from me that was just brought up on charges by the feds.. for falsifying documents, so that buyers with bad credit could get a new car / truck loan..

This was don to get their sales #'s up

There have been several from the dealership already sentenced to jail time, and others that have been found guilty, and are awaiting sentencing

Like someone else said.. This bubble is also going to burst ! Why the feds, banks, etc, can't see this coming ,is beyond me !

 

[KiwiBro]

KiwiBro I read yesterday there are $1 trillion out in vehicle loans in the USA, average amount is like $28K and monthly payments were $466, $488 or something like that. It talked about the number of repos that will develop will drive down used prices and call for discounting to make new sales as easy credit fades. Not sure what to make of this point of view but it wants to make me not borrow money for anything.

Scary stuff. Who stands to lose most when the loan-backed securities/derivatives start unwinding? That side of the impending train wreck will be interesting because it never ceases to amaze me how far and wide the projection of losses can be when leveraged to the eyeballs. If there is no reason to believe derivative and other financial instrument channel-stuffing vermin were not exterminated last time around, or that enough people in positions of governance really care about such things, then I think it is safe to say the actual exposure is far, far greater than that $1t.

The market has been burning the candle at both ends, scraping the bottom of the barrel for some time now, with some of if not the lowest loan rejection rates in history while something like a 3rd (and rising) of auto loans are sub-prime. Simultaneously, inventories rise and the desperate (if not wilfully pathetic) reliance on stellar volume growth in markets like China has been exposed as hopeless, so the whole shebang appears to be teetering on a knife edge.

At the risk of appearing heartless, I sincerely hope the implosion really bites and for long enough that humanity will get at least a generation of responsible and moral behaviour beaten into it before greed and immorality creep back in as I'm sure it will. It seems to be a lesson we seem ****-bent on never learning well enough.

 

[Copperhead]

What is truly telling, is the price difference of a typical 2500 loaded up, and a commercial semi truck. I got a 2013 Freightliner with 70" mid roof walk in sleeper, built in refrigerator, hanging clothes closet with more additional cabinet space than many small travel trailers, custom surround sound stereo system, total air ride suspension, premium Signature series interior with wood trim throughout, built in inverter / battery charger to provide 120 AC to the sleeper off the batteries and will keep batteries charged up when on shore power, factory installed Webasto diesel fired sleeper heater, and premium noise abatement and premium Arctic insulation packages. 18 speed transmission and Alcoa Durabrite aluminum wheels all the way around. Total cost before trade... $115K. And it had 300K mile base warranty on everything with 750K mile base warranty on the trans and diffs.

Yet a small 2500HD with a 6.0L gasser stickers for mid to high 40K? Or a diesel 2500HD loaded up is over half the price of this semi truck? The pickup OEM's are in the rip off game.

 

[Loadstar]

What is truly telling, is the price difference of a typical 2500 loaded up, and a commercial semi truck. I got a 2013 Freightliner with 70" mid roof walk in sleeper, built in refrigerator, hanging clothes closet with more additional cabinet space than many small travel trailers, custom surround sound stereo system, total air ride suspension, premium Signature series interior with wood trim throughout, built in inverter / battery charger to provide 120 AC to the sleeper off the batteries and will keep batteries charged up when on shore power, factory installed Webasto diesel fired sleeper heater, and premium noise abatement and premium Arctic insulation packages. 18 speed transmission and Alcoa Durabrite aluminum wheels all the way around. Total cost before trade... $115K. And it had 300K mile base warranty on everything with 750K mile base warranty on the trans and diffs. Yet a small 2500HD with a 6.0L gasser stickers for mid to high 40K? Or a diesel 2500HD loaded up is over half the price of this semi truck? The pickup OEM's are in the rip off game.

I have a freight liner fld120 and a 78 load star and they farm plate and insure cheaper than my f250. That's why I don't understand why one would buy a "heavy duty" pickup load it to its max so it can strain it's weak guts out when you could get a used medium duty truck that is actually built to work for a 1/4 of the price.

 

[TomSeller]

I have a freight liner fld120 and a 78 load star and they farm plate and insure cheaper than my f250. That's why I don't understand why one would buy a "heavy duty" pickup load it to its max so it can strain it's weak guts out when you could get a used medium duty truck that is actually built to work for a 1/4 of the price.

Interesting point. Hard to disagree. This may be my chance to get a real truck.