What is latest opinion/position on BX series slow braking (is it an issue or not)?

[AxleHub]

Good and valid points, none of us need or appreciate being told that because we don't own that particular machine our posts are unneeded, unwanted or irrelevant. Additionally some will not appreciate being lectured on the mechanics, use and safety as though they really don't understand any of this.

So TripleR . . . maybe you could clarify for me. I counted numerous examples of people posting they had bx25 and had no problems. So how did you know which bx25 they were talking about?

JohnThomas was kind enough to clarify his difference of different bx25 models. Prior to the d-1 it wasn't a problem. So whats the secret code to tell us which bx25 a poster is talking about ?

And I was specific about the mechanics because we post to both newbies and veteran users. Just Friday a poster told me I was all wrong because the brakes work on both front and rear wheels which I knew wasn't correct . . and that user is a veteran poster.

So I checked with multiple long time kubota owners to discover I was correct. So you bet . . I specifically described the mechanics so there was no confusion or misinformation being given to newbies who would think brakes brake all wheels.

 

[Grandad4]

Fair enough, Axle. Of course hearing from BX25D-1 owners means a lot to this topic, but even Massey owners should be welcome to comment respectfully on a topic and have their opinion heard. And, speaking of opinions, here's mine, fwiw.

The dynamic braking action of an HST can be engineered to range from 0% (like dropping the clutch on a gear tractor), to 100% (as in instantly locking up the wheels - full braking). Also, the braking action is a function of the slope on which the tractor operates and the travel speed. Unless you use a servo-actuated HST that is independent of those conditions, it's difficult to design a mechanical return HST that works well under all operating conditions. Kubota has made several changes to the BX dynamic braking behavior over the years, apparently attempting to find a calibration that works well for most users under most conditions. There was one series (BX xx50?) that was notorious for abrupt stopping that wasn't out for very long.

If they dialed it back some with the latest models, it's a fair question whether the change should have been explained to buyers, and what amount the braking may have been softened is indeed another valid question. If it was only 5-10%, it's probably not a big deal (after all, we really don't know anything objective about the comparative dynamic braking behavior of different brands and models); if it they made it 50% less effective or more, that's definitely an issue. Until someone has facts about that, it's probably not a great idea sounding the general alarm. So comments from owners of the new machines are indeed most relevant, and particularly those who have had previous models also.

 

[TripleR]

So TripleR . . . maybe you could clarify for me. I counted numerous examples of people posting they had bx25 and had no problems. So how did you know which bx25 they were talking about?

JohnThomas was kind enough to clarify his difference of different bx25 models. Prior to the d-1 it wasn't a problem. So whats the secret code to tell us which bx25 a poster is talking about ?

And I was specific about the mechanics because we post to both newbies and veteran users. Just Friday a poster told me I was all wrong because the brakes work on both front and rear wheels which I knew wasn't correct . . and that user is a veteran poster.

So I checked with multiple long time kubota owners to discover I was correct. So you bet . . I specifically described the mechanics so there was no confusion or misinformation being given to newbies who would think brakes brake all wheels.

Please clarify to me how any of that is relevant to my post.

 

[AxleHub]

Fair enough, Axle. Of course hearing from BX25D-1 owners means a lot to this topic, but even Massey owners should be welcome to comment respectfully on a topic and have their opinion heard. And, speaking of opinions, here's mine, fwiw.

The dynamic braking action of an HST can be engineered to range from 0% (like dropping the clutch on a gear tractor), to 100% (as in instantly locking up the wheels - full braking). Also, the braking action is a function of the slope on which the tractor operates and the travel speed. Unless you use a servo-actuated HST that is independent of those conditions, it's difficult to design a mechanical return HST that works well under all operating conditions. Kubota has made several changes to the BX dynamic braking behavior over the years, apparently attempting to find a calibration that works well for most users under most conditions. There was one series (BX xx50?) that was notorious for abrupt stopping that wasn't out for very long.

If they dialed it back some with the latest models, it's a fair question whether the change should have been explained to buyers, and what amount the braking may have been softened is indeed another valid question. If it was only 5-10%, it's probably not a big deal (after all, we really don't know anything objective about the comparative dynamic braking behavior of different brands and models); if it they made it 50% less effective or more, that's definitely an issue. Until someone has facts about that, it's probably not a great idea sounding the general alarm. So comments from owners of the new machines are indeed most relevant, and particularly those who have had previous models also.

Greetings Grandad,

Whether your posts do or don't agree with me is not a deciding issue. Either way, you just had a really good post.

 

[AxleHub]

Please clarify to me how any of that is relevant to my post.

Greetings TripleR

You'd posted: " Additionally some will not appreciate being lectured on the mechanics, use and safety as though they really don't understand any of this."

Well I'd replied exactly why I was very specific on the mechanics because a veteran poster a couple days ago had said part of my concerns were wrong because brakes work on all 4 wheels.

"Being lectured" implies a number of negatives. Yet this thread was started by a newbie who may not have understood all the mechanics of slopes and braking issues. And because a veteran poster had responded the other day with wrong information . . that implies, that clarity to both newbie and veteran is a reasonable and needed effort anf akso implies if there are 1 of each type there could be 5 more of each type who did not post but are active readers.

Certainly many already know the grnersl mechanics . . but we aren't posting just to those who already know it . . we're posting to all who read it . . . the knowing, the unknowing, and the wrong.

If you read some of my posts from just 5 months ago . . I admitted to learning very quickly and unexpectedly the importance of 4wd being engaged going down a steep slope with an empty fel on. And that brakes were complerely ineffective.

I'm not even close to being a kid. And I've used lots of small and large equipment over the years, but never a tractor . . so learning on that specific mechanics was quite sudden, to say the least. I wish someone had explained the mechanics in some of the posts I'd read from 2011 till 5 months ago.

 

[Code54]

I do agree Axlehub there are others that are unhappy with the machine and the HST function, you are 100% correct. I recall hearing people complain about how abrupt other HST machines stop and recall people feeling they were dangerous (I also don't agree as I had a 7610 years ago that would stop on a dime but I knew it and worked around it)
I believe it is hard for any manufacture to have these machine work exactly how every single user would like/want. Seems someone won't be happy or complain no matter what. Im sort of one of those people that can adapt to however the machine works and just get used to it. Heck I have run so many crappy machines over the years I am pretty darn happy with any of the newer machines to be honest. More than once I was given a machine with no brakes and a ｽ fried clutch and told to go to work...... LOL

 

[s219]

D1. Braking on a tractor is controlled by the rear wheels . . Not the front wheels. Meanwhile dynamic braking is influenced by 2wd (rear wheels) or by 4wd (rear and front wheels). So if you go down a slope (lawn, hill, driveway, or slippery/icy slope) . . dynamic braking in 4wd is a HUGE advantage over brake use for both speed AND directional control.

You got this wrong in your other rant too. Braking (via the brake pedal) is connected to any axles that are engaged. When in 2WD, that means it acts on the rear axle only. When in 4WD, that means both the front and rear axles are braked. This is a very basic and very important thing to understand with tractors. You should engage 4WD in any situation where braking is critical, such as on wet/loose slopes, especially when carrying weight in the front bucket, since the rear wheels will have less traction and reduced braking authority. There are many situations when the HST's braking action (or lack of) is secondary to the actual foot brakes, so it's important to understand how braking via the brake pedal works on one or both axles. Please get that straight.

 

[s219]

My point is . . Honest and clear opinions and input are valuable . . but if someone tries to minimize kubota's responsibility or makes statements about prior models that we all know are not effected but doesn't include the specific year . . at best it creates confusion and at worst it influences new buyers incorrectly.

FWIW, the information I related on the BX-25D I drove yesterday pertains to the new model. It's as simple as looking at the floor mat to tell if it's a new model; no need to go to any more detail. That is the model that has been experiencing these problems, therefore it's the one I wrote my experience about. You're talking to a Kubota owner who has experience with different Kubota models and who has taken the time to actually drive the affected tractor. Can you say that? Sounds like you can't. I haven't seen anything in your posts that indicates you have any direct experience with this. And your lack of understanding about brakes doesn't help your credibility at all.

 

[Scooby074]

I prefer a little slop in my hydro. I dont want it to slam on and shake my fillings loose. I know why Kubota specs that it should brake within 10'. The hydro is really there to control direction and speed F-R , and there is a dedicated brake there for braking.

Kubota addressed this correctly by moving the brake pedal to the left side on the 70 series and reducing the brake effect, which allows you one foot on the hydro and one on the brake, which is the proper procedure for inching, IMHO. One shouldnt be relying on the hydro for braking, slowing, yes, but actual braking, no. Because the hydro and brakes are on the same side with my BX, I can stop on a dime by pushing my heel on R , but this isnt ideal, and really the brake should be used but its considerably harder than having the brake on the other side. Ideally kubota would put a knob on the tractor to adjust braking effect like is commonplace on larger machines, but then again, the BX is a no-frills, low cost machine and would it be worth adding $500 to the price of the machine for those few who complain about not enough or too much hydrostatic braking when they have to compete on price with the small Deeres and others?

 

[Chvypowa]

I had an issue with mine rolling and remedied it with adjustment and grease.