MF1533 no-start condition - need some suggestions

[EdGooding]

I've got a 2006 MF-1533 with FEL that I bought new. It only has 358 hours on it. Shed kept. I use it for variety of utility and gardening needs. Started it up the other day and drove it up to the house. Turned it off to run inside and get some water and pay some old water back )). Came out and she won't start. Engine cranks over fine, but she will not start. After reading threads here and talking to some knowledgeable folks in my area, I decided to replace the stop (fuel shut-off) solenoid. Got it from Agco - Woodward solenoid with new gasket - same as came out of it. No joy. These are fun to install blind with big hands and a loader arm in your way.....NOT!

Decided to bleed the fuel system - had plenty of fresh fuel in it, so wasn't sure about this, but figured WTH and I loosened the three fitting nuts circled in red in the attached photo. Had the farm boss turn the key. I was expecting fuel to shoot out of the pump but hardly got any fuel out at all....just some dribbles. Retightened the three fitting nuts, tried to start again but no joy.

The fuel filter is new (still red), the fuel bowl has some discoloration on the bottom, but nothing floating in the fuel. The valve lever is turned ON.

I charged the battery, although it is fairly new, to make sure it was fully charged.

At this point, I'm stumped. I'm a half-decent shade tree mechanic on gasoline engines, but this is my first diesel so I'm fairly ignorant about them. But, I can follow directions and have the service manual. I need some suggestions from those more experienced than I.

The bolt circled in green - is that the bleed screw for the pump? The service manual says to bleed the pump and filter once the injector lines are bled.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or tips.

 

[grsthegreat]

Did you check fuse schedule and see if theres a stop solonoid fuse. Ive had issues like this in past.

 

[EdGooding]

Did you check fuse schedule and see if theres a stop solonoid fuse. Ive had issues like this in past.

I have not! Will do so in the morning. It's a separate 40a up by the battery if memory serves. Will report back then. Thank you!

 

[thclimer]

What about all the safety interlocks such as: seat switch, neutral gear shifter position, PTO engaged?

This might sound like a stupid question but are you sure the tank is not close to empty?

Let us know what you find and good luck.

 

[EdGooding]

What about all the safety interlocks such as: seat switch, neutral gear shifter position, PTO engaged?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the safety interlocks is that, if any are engaged, you cannot even crank the engine - a key turn will turn on dash lights but not crank the engine. Is this not true? If not, I'll start checking them today if the rain stops. Thanks!

Yes, fuel tank was half full, but I filled it to the top to start bleeding the system yesterday. Took 4.5 gallons to fill completely to the cap, so there was more than that in the tank.

 

[thclimer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the safety interlocks is that, if any are engaged, you cannot even crank the engine - a key turn will turn on dash lights but not crank the engine. Is this not true? If not, I'll start checking them today if the rain stops. Thanks!

Yes, fuel tank was half full, but I filled it to the top to start bleeding the system yesterday. Took 4.5 gallons to fill completely to the cap, so there was more than that in the tank.

I know on my New Holland there are conditions where it will just crank because the fuel solenoid is not energized.

I'm not sure about your Massey tractor, hopefully someone with an electrical understanding on it specifically will chime in.

 

[EdGooding]

Did you check fuse schedule and see if theres a stop solonoid fuse. Ive had issues like this in past.

Checked the two 40a fuses and they were good. Rebled the fuel system today (including pump) and still no start. Frustrating!!! I'm wondering if the pump has gone south, but it only has 358 hours on it.... At this point, I'm not sure what to check next. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[EdGooding]

I'm baffled, for sure. The one thing that keeps nagging at me is that, when I loosened the 3 fittings for the fuel lines to the injectors and had my better half crank the engine, I was expecting fuel to shoot out and it only dribbled - this just seems wrong to me but I don't know for sure. It's what is making me question whether the fuel pump has gone south on me, but I don't know how to test the existing one.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I'm baffled, for sure. The one thing that keeps nagging at me is that, when I loosened the 3 fittings for the fuel lines to the injectors and had my better half crank the engine, I was expecting fuel to shoot out and it only dribbled - this just seems wrong to me but I don't know for sure. It's what is making me question whether the fuel pump has gone south on me, but I don't know how to test the existing one.

Not a mechanic, just thinking out loud...


Could also be a clog in the fuel line, can you disconnect the fuel line right at the pump? If you get nothing out of the pump, could you jump the power supply to the pump? That would eliminate any safety switch involvement.

 

[EdGooding]

Not a mechanic, just thinking out loud...


Could also be a clog in the fuel line, can you disconnect the fuel line right at the pump? If you get nothing out of the pump, could you jump the power supply to the pump? That would eliminate any safety switch involvement.

Heck, I'll give it a try tomorrow. At this point, I'm grasping at straws and will try anything. Thank you!

 

[thclimer]

Here is a link from the New Holland section describing how some tractors safety interlock can allow the engine to cracking but not start.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/297701-my-new-me-tc40d-dilemma.html

This may not be the case with your tractor but maybe it can give you some ideas for other things to check.

 

[EdGooding]

Here is a link from the New Holland section describing how some tractors safety interlock can allow the engine to cracking but not start.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/297701-my-new-me-tc40d-dilemma.html

This may not be the case with your tractor but maybe it can give you some ideas for other things to check.

Thank you! Will give me other things to chase down today. Just had a load of gravel brought in and tail-gated on my driveway, but I need to hook up the box blade and smooth it out. Will report back.

 

[TSO]

I would also suggest checking for a blockage.

 

[EdGooding]

I would also suggest checking for a blockage.

Thank you - will do!

 

[EdGooding]

I know on my New Holland there are conditions where it will just crank because the fuel solenoid is not energized.

I can hear a loud click when I first turn the key, which is believe is the fuel solenoid being energized. When I activate the glow plugs by turning the key a little more, I hear a faint and continuous clicking sound, which as has always been there since new when activating the glow plugs.

 

[TSO]

I can hear a loud click when I first turn the key, which is believe is the fuel solenoid being energized. When I activate the glow plugs by turning the key a little more, I hear a faint and continuous clicking sound, which as has always been there since new when activating the glow plugs.

that faint clicking sound is the electronic fuel pump that pulls fuel from the tank and fills up the filter bowl. It's on as long as the ignition is on.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im almost leary of posting this, but One other thing that i tried on my tractor a. While back, my tractor just turned over and did not start. I loosened up the stop solonoid and pulled it out about 1 inch. Then i turned key. Tractor fired right up. As i pushed solonoid back into place, tractor died.
I replaced solonoid. Remember, be very careful of doing this as fan belts are very close. I happen to work alot around engines do i did dome run thrus before actually attempting this. Problem is if you remove stop solonoid and unit starts, you cant shut it down with key. Another person mentioned shutting down fuel shutoff manually to stop tractor to keep hands out of fuel solonoid area with engine running.

This method is best left to a mechanic if you are arnt comfortable around running engines.

 

[tmajor]

I'll offer 2 things, which might not come close to solving your problem. I changed my fuel filter, so sediment bowl was empty. I opened the shut-off valve and a little fuel trickled in, but when I turned the key to it 1st position, the sediment bowl filled quickly!

A friend, with more diesel experience than myself, when I asked him about "running out of fuel and did the lines need to be bled, etc" , said to "put a towel in the exhaust and crank it over, which would cause the fuel pressure to built, so it would start". He's got diesel tractors and school buses, so I have some faith in that procedure.

 

[EdGooding]

Lot's of rain and then Hurricane Matthew has prevented me from doing more diagnosis. Was finally able to get back on it today. I believe the culprit is the fuel pump and wanted to find out if anyone knows what the pressure reading would be for a good one. My pump is putting out a max of 4.5psi when the key is turned on. It also fluctuates between 0 to 2psi to 4.5 when rapping on it with a wrench. This is suggesting that the fuel pump is worn and I'm inclined to order a new one in the morning, but wanted to get the opinion of someone more experienced. It seems to me (but I really don't know) that a good pump would put out more than 4.5 lbs. of pressure.

Thoughts on this?

Thank you.......Ed

 

[thclimer]

Lot's of rain and then Hurricane Matthew has prevented me from doing more diagnosis. Was finally able to get back on it today. I believe the culprit is the fuel pump and wanted to find out if anyone knows what the pressure reading would be for a good one. My pump is putting out a max of 4.5psi when the key is turned on. It also fluctuates between 0 to 2psi to 4.5 when rapping on it with a wrench. This is suggesting that the fuel pump is worn and I'm inclined to order a new one in the morning, but wanted to get the opinion of someone more experienced. It seems to me (but I really don't know) that a good pump would put out more than 4.5 lbs. of pressure.

Thoughts on this?

Thank you.......Ed

Huum that does seem rather low to me but I really have no experience as to what the fuel pump discharge pressure should be. I would guess it needs to at least be in the 100's of psi to atomize the fuel, maybe more. How were you able to measure it?

Hopefully someone who really knows will reply.