Buying and selling guns ?

[Code54]

Also on another note - there is not computer database of gun purchases. Local dealers can computerize their records but the ATF is prohibited from computerizing everything.

This may interest some of you:
How a Gun Trace Works

 

[RedNeckGeek]

This may interest some of you:
How a Gun Trace Works

I would be highly suspect of anything in that article. For example, how did they get their hands on a confidential police document that appears to contain case numbers and personally identifiable perpetrator information? That in itself is an excellent reason why the ATF is and should continue to be prohibited from maintaining computerized firearms transaction records. Can you imagine the damage done to individual firearms owners if that database ever got hacked, and crooks, crackpots, and the media were to gain access to the information? It's already happened to numerous government databases; I have credit watches in place as a result.

The article also fails to mention the elephant in the room: Criminals aren't going to purchase guns through legal channels that leave a paper trail. The San Bernadino killers used straw purchases, most just steal them or buy them off the black market. And someone intent on commuting a crime isn't going to let one more law related to firearms stop them. These are just some of the reasons firearms registration doesn't work, and the even if the article's repeated cries for requiring all firearms purchases to be documented were to be heeded, criminals will still get their guns through undocumented channels.

 

[teejk]

Also on another note - there is not computer database of gun purchases. Local dealers can computerize their records but the ATF is prohibited from computerizing everything.

This may interest some of you:
How a Gun Trace Works

Correct. They are prohibited...but I suspect they are doing it anyway "for future use". The ATF says that there is no federal regulation requiring any paperwork on person to person "non-dealer" sales within the same state (but be sure to check for any state/local exceptions to that rule). There was a proposed rule however that based on the number of sales a "non-dealer" might become a dealer and have to apply for the FFL...dunno what happened to that. Seems to me that it wouldn't hurt to have the buyer fill out the ATF form 4473 solely for your records just in case the gun does get traced back to you and "channel 5" comes calling (try not to laugh when they answer the question about marijuana use...cracks me up every time I read it and wonder how many people lie through their teeth when answering). As for "brokering" through a FFL dealer, it's no different than seller a vehicle...the dealer is going to give you "wholesale", they will sell for "retail" (and the spreads can be pretty big).

 

[murphy1244]

I would be highly suspect of anything in that article. For example, how did they get their hands on a confidential police document that appears to contain case numbers and personally identifiable perpetrator information? That in itself is an excellent reason why the ATF is and should continue to be prohibited from maintaining computerized firearms transaction records. Can you imagine the damage done to individual firearms owners if that database ever got hacked, and crooks, crackpots, and the media were to gain access to the information? It's already happened to numerous government databases; I have credit watches in place as a result.

The article also fails to mention the elephant in the room: Criminals aren't going to purchase guns through legal channels that leave a paper trail. The San Bernadino killers used straw purchases, most just steal them or buy them off the black market. And someone intent on commuting a crime isn't going to let one more law related to firearms stop them. These are just some of the reasons firearms registration doesn't work, and the even if the article's repeated cries for requiring all firearms purchases to be documented were to be heeded, criminals will still get their guns through undocumented channels.

We had a newspaper the printed the name and address of every new CHL holder every month till the state stopped sending them the info.

 

[2ndhalf]

We had a newspaper the printed the name and address of every new CHL holder every month till the state stopped sending them the info.

That would torque me off.. I don't tell a lot of people I have a CCL. I work with too many gunphobes and so does my wife. No one at her work knows she is has a CCl. You would be amazed at how freaked out some people become over guns.

Well.. maybe they do if they read our names in that paper :thumbdown:

 

[the old grind]

Guns were meant to be bought, not sold. Just like tractors, lol.

Agreed. Still own every gun I've ever bought ... and not done yet. Got a new safe with more space just begging to be filled.

x2 on ya both, sorta. Guns and tractors come and go, tho' it's awfully hard not to keep buying them. I've bought on GunBroker and GunsAmerica, sold mostly on GB. (buying is sooo much easier, and luckily I've haven't been disappointed with a deal or detail yet going either way. )

There are some things you learn about selling online after a while, and/or from browsing: o'all presentation, starting prices, reserves, etc, fine tuning your ads and being patient with keeping track of list #s when auto-relisted. Be willing to let 'em roast if you aren't really in a hurry to sell, and or want them to go to truly appreciative buyers.

Guys like me will surf in from time to time and pay fair money for what the masses usually shrug at. I've over-paid for many humble <$500 pieces that were a particular caliber and action combo (ie, Rem 11-48s in 20ga & .410, Husky 46 in 9.3 x 57) with few to no nits to pick about gen condition or 'heirloom' embellishments.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

So I'm thinking of traking a gun to a gunshow that I bought new and selling it. If I don't sell it at a gunshow I may sell it on in a classified add. So gunshow isn't the crux of the question.

If I sell that gun without any paper trail and someone uses it to commit a crime and they trace it back to me because I registered it when buying it new... will I have to be proving the sale and or answering questions about where I was at the time the gun was used in a crime?

Use an FFL to transfer the firearm to the new owner and enjoy peace of mind.

 

[vacman]

Federally there isn't really a requirement to keep a record of a transfer between two private individuals. State laws vary so you should check specifically for your state's rules and follow those. Every time I have bought or sold privately, I have generated two copies of the bill of sale so each of has a copy with all of the info. This protects both parties. Personally, I have stopped buying and selling with people I do not know. A while back I set up a table at a swap meet and sold several guns. Now there are several strangers that have all of my personal information and know that I have enough guns that I'm selling some off. The more I thought about that, the less I liked the idea so now I use a ffl for any transfers. When selling, I usually put them up on consignment. I have good luck buying off gunbroker so that gets shipped in to my ffl and he transfer to me. I like that system a lot better.

Good luck.
John

 

[PJSprog]

I've only ever bought 2 guns from individuals. One was a guy in Texas I met on a forum, and that sale went through our FFLs for out-of-state transfer. The other was a former co-worker, and we just did the double bill of sale thing. It's good to have some kind of a record, for both parties of the sale.

 

[Gunny]

Thinking about it, I'd think that any responsible buyer would want and request a bill of sale with all the particulars listed. What's to keep a transfer of dollars and a handshake from turning into a seller just declaring that his firearm was stolen after the sale?