Looking for advice on which direction to go

[dnw64]

Hi,

New member here and I thought rather than post an introduction on the New Member forum I'd just jump in here since this is the reason I discovered your site.

I have owned a 1972 Case 444 for almost 20 years. I got it with a 44" deck and 48" blower. Oh, and a front blade that wasn't set up right and I never bothered figuring it out. For the last few years I've been having someone cut my grass (I don't like doing it...) so all I've been using it for is blowing snow.

I started perusing this forum because I'm looking for an alternative. The tractor has been mostly good, with a few problems I've been able to work out. There are three primary reasons I'm looking to replace this as my snow remover.

• Lack of power. The old 14hp still runs pretty strong, but blowing 48" width of snow quickly becomes a challenge. You might note from my profile that I live in Vermont, so 1-2' is not uncommon. While it WILL blow up to the top of the (what is it, 16"?) snowgaurd, you end up having to go very slow. This, in combination with the next issue can make it very unpleasant to use.
• Lack of throwing distance. I have a 40' wide garage that sits next to and just behind our house, so all the snow from the parking area in front of the garage has to go to one side. This means that with the single stage blower, almost half of the space is getting doubled up on. Also, at the end of the drive where the road snow gets dumped it's hard to blow the snow far enough away from the road, so we end up with huge piles at the corners such that even in a 3/4 ton pickup you can have a hard time seeing oncoming traffic leaving the driveway before winter is over.
• Too many things to fix. It's 45 years old, and while I have replaced and fixed things as time has gone on, it needs probably $500 worth of parts to get it where I'd like it to be. Most of that is in new tire chains, but it also needs some blower bearings, a new chain and sprockets, the starter/generator needs to be either rebuilt or replaced and probably a handful of other small things.

Probably if the Case had a 2-stage blower I would make the effort to get it back to 100%. And while I know some people have fitted 2-stage blowers to the Case, it's not worth the time and money to me to try and do that. I even half considered doing that and upgrading to an 18hp twin, but spending that much money on a 45 year old tractor that may need a new hydro pump or who knows what the next week seems foolish to me. I'm not that attached to it.

So here's where I stand today. A year and a half ago I decided I wasn't going to fix the tractor and went through the same thing I'm going through now. In the end I decided since all I was using it for was snow removal I would just get a big walk behind and ended up buying an Ariens Professional 32.

I used it once that first winter (probably our lowest snowfall on record, and we were away the other two times is snowed and had it plowed). After using it 6-8 times so far this year I've decided that a walk behind is not for me. My biggest complaint is the lack of stability/momentum. Any little bump or left-over piece of ice and it jumps all over the place. I'm 6'2", 210#, in reasonably decent shape and after 45 minutes I feel like I've just finished a workout. OK, as my son would say, I'm an old man (53 this month) but while it doesn't have to be fun, I refuse to torture myself unnecessarily. I love how far the 2-stage blower throws snow, but that's about it.

A little more info about the driveway. As I mentioned, it's about 40' wide in front of the garage, which extends about 40' to the end of the house, and then has a 10' extension for a turnaround that goes another 30'. The actual driveway itself is 10' wide and is about 150'. Everything is paved and relatively level (yes, in VT!). Because of the layout of the driveway, and the fact that we have finished lawn adjacent to most of it, I do not want to use a conventional plow. You have to backdrag a good portion of it, and then there's no place to push the snow. Any time I've had it plowed I hate it.

So, back to my reason for finding/reading this forum. I've been looking at CUT/SCUTs with front mounted snowblowers and found one that seemed like it would do the job. In fact it seems almost ideal. But I'd never heard of it so I've been researching and found quite a few posts here.

The machine I've found is a Steiner 430 Max with 54" snowblower. From everything I've read it seems like it is a well built machine, and most people say that with the Kohler gas engine (25/27 or 30hp - I'm not sure which at this point) it has plenty of power.

I guess my question comes down to this. It seems that the primary use for this machine is mowing, and especially mowing side hills. If all I'm going to do with this is blow snow, should I consider a more conventional CUT/SCUT? Is this overkill?

I guess I should mention that while I don't have an actual budget, I'd like to spend less than $10k. And the less the better, but not to the point of compromising functionality.

Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to give as much relevant information as possible.

 

[Pipestone Kid]

My next door neighbor (now passed away) had the exact machine you are looking at. I used it quite a bit after he got sick and plowed his drive and mine (a total of about 1000 ft.) It did a superb job and was mighty convenient to work around his "center island". I strongly recommend it.

 

[4get gto]

Don't think you're going to bye a Steiner and blower on a budget of 10k. I've seen these in action and they sure do a nice job. Very versable machine.

 

[dnw64]

Thanks for your positive reviews on the Steiner.

Don't think you're going to bye a Steiner and blower on a budget of 10k.

I see I wasn't clear. The 430 Max is no longer sold, I am looking at a used one - about 10 years old with just over 1000 hours, and a 3 year old blower. They are asking $8k for the package.

 

[mmancuso13]

Because of my acreage I ended up going with a larger platform but looked at both the Steiner and Ventrac brands. They seem very capable and there are a lot of attachments that you could pick up in the future. The articulation feature makes handling a snap. It seems to me the used machine will serve you well as a single platform for your needs.

 

[civilian]

One comment about snow blowers not throwing far enough. As OP mentioned his single stage would throw snow over and then he'd have double amount of snow to blow to finish. What I do when in this situation is to start at the edge and empty an area of snow, then go to the beginning and throw the snow into the cleared area. This way, I still only throw the snow once, but cover some areas twice. Some areas required me to throw the snow to the end of a 150 ft drive/path, not to the sides. So I start in fresh snow and throw forward, and here I will be throwing snow on top of snow. But just continue down the first pass slowly. Then on the second pass I can throw snow into the area cleared in the first pass. Good luck on your choices. Jon

 

[leonz]

As much as I would like to see you with a rear mounted pronovost snow caster
and a JD series one mule with loaded rears and chains:


Another option would be a BCS or Grillo walk behind and
the widest 2 stage BCS snow caster for your workload.

All gear drive for both units and the only bad thing is the Honda engines
have exposed throttle controls that ice up but several members have made
aluminum covers for them to eliminate the ice issue.

Even the smallest CUT with a snow caster is going north of 14K with chains and loaded rears.
But in saying that buying new will get you a warranty and extended warranty.

But as many of us are mule shopping and do not buy locally we get better prices by
shopping out of the area.


If you go that route I would not buy anything less than a Pronovost or Lorenz brand of snow caster
as no one makes a single stage any more unless you buy a BCS 2 wheel tractor and its still to small
for what you want and too light a snow caster versus thier 2 stage units which stay on the ground.


I would just hate to see you replace the engine on the Case and have the transmission lose its clutches.

 

[dnw64]

As much as I would like to see you with a rear mounted pronovost snow caster
and a JD series one mule with loaded rears and chains...

That was not at all on my radar, but I am very open to alternatives. Why do you like the rear-PTO option? I just can't imagine driving backwards all the time, but maybe it's easier than I think(?) or the results outweigh the disadvantages, or...?

Honestly I had categorically ruled out a rear-PTO solution, but also recognize that another perspective can be superior to mine. I know, I know, hard to believe, but true.

Thanks,

 

[Wolfy]

My brother owns several of the old Case garden tractors, they are tough , and I would not write yours off. Even if your transmission did go, I see Case/Ingersolls for sale often, some with bad engines but good elsewise. I have a rear 60" snowblower that works well, my first and by far fastest choice is my rusty old F250 yard rig, but you said you disliked plows. I find that sitting on the tractor at an angle helps a lot. That and I use a whole can of turtle wax in the fall, coating everything in the snowblower housing so the snow flies out.

 

[dnw64]

A truck with plow would normally be my first choice, I had one at my previous location. You can pick up a functional unit for less than a comparable tractor setup, and be done in 1/4 the time.

I've been thinking about the rear mount blower and realized that I spend half my time backing up as it is. The largest part of my yard is a big rectangle and it's not feasible to turn around at each end. Of course I've been backing up at full speed, and most of the time I don't even have to turn around as the exact track isn't very important. Anyways, the idea is growing on me, as I could more easily go wider, say 6' as opposed to the typical 48-54" front mount. Then I'd only need one pass down and back on my 10' wide driveway, and obviously fewer on the parking/turnaround area.

BTW, I was looking at the Provonost site and they say for their entry level Lynx and Puma that you need 16-25 or 20-35 HP for their 70 or 72" models. Anyone running at the low end of their recommendations and have any comments on power to throw snow?

Thanks for all the feedback. I've got lots to consider now.

"Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed."

 

[tman1020]

If I was buying a new tractor just for snow removal this would be some of my wants.
1) plenty of hp. At least 5 pto hp per foot of blower.
2) a cab. A good one with wipers and lights
3) good heat in the cab. Not some propane buddy heater or electric heater real heater core heat.
4) what else can I use the tractor for in the future, like mowing if you change your mind of tilling a garden. Or maybe a blade in front blower on back.
5) storage. Can I fit it in my garage or where ever you plan on keeping it or working on it.
6) is there a dealer support and parts available for what I bye. This one might be more at the top of my list.

 

[franklin2]

That Steiner for $8000 sounds like a good deal. I think you might even enjoy mowing the grass with that if you found a front deck for it. I love front mounted mowing decks.

 

[leonz]

That was not at all on my radar, but I am very open to alternatives. Why do you like the rear-PTO option? I just can't imagine driving backwards all the time, but maybe it's easier than I think(?) or the results outweigh the disadvantages, or...?

Honestly I had categorically ruled out a rear-PTO solution, but also recognize that another perspective can be superior to mine. I know, I know, hard to believe, but true.

Thanks,

======================================================================

If you invest in a simple cabbed mule with heater or not you can simply put a very firm pillow behind you to support you until you become more comfortable with how to sit in the seat.

Some of the members invest in swivel seat and some mules have that as an option but that is in the larger engine frame size mules to allow for easier crop harvesting with towed machinery.


The thing is that you can turn sideways in the seat and push the reverse pedal to move and the snow caster is nothing more than a boat anchor as long as you have rear chains and the rear tires loaded with windshield washer fluid.

Your going to be running that engine at the Rear PTO implement speed and at 540 revolutions per minute and on the first pass your going to be taking a full cut at a slow speed of travel and you can take half cuts on the next passes.

You can buy a wider rear snow caster in the next horsepower size rating for a smaller mule and just travel a bit slower and make fewer passes but still eliminate the plowed snow bank mess that will trap snow in plow cut.
As long as your three point hitch has the hydraulic power to lift it it will work for you.

If you buy a front mount snow caster the Mid PTO is used wherein the power is transmitted to either a gearbox or a reversing chain system to power the front mount snow caster.

The front mounts require an under frame mounting system and they are vicious when they bite because you forget that frame is sticking out someplace in a dark garage.

A smaller mule will work with a wider snow caster as long as it is operated properly and not abused.

You have to understand that the current two stage snow casters are designed mostly for powder snows and
the open auger system is not your friend. you have to keep the impeller filled to make the most use of the number of impeller paddles it has meaning the slower you travel the faster the snow caster will allow the impeller to throw it.

The gap between the impeller paddles and the impeller drum is the worst part because the friction from the impeller will melt the snow and cause it to become less efficient and use more power with a front mount and a rear mount unit BUT clarence's impeller kit solves that by sweeping out all the snow and ice chunks.


Many of the members have small sub compact mules with front loaders and rear mount snow casters and many also have wider rear mount snow casters using the sub compact mules.

Look at it this way.

Any rear mount snow caster has fewer parts and a direct drive impeller system from the 540 RPM PTO through the gearbox.

The limiting factors are/is/will be available power, money, debt service BUT having a wider snow caster lends itself to making wider passes at slower speeds where the impeller is rotating at its maximum speed clearing the snow that is fed to it BUT the open cross augers do not cut the snow up the impeller does that and it makes the impellers job that much harder as it has to shear the snow being pushed into it to cast it away.

no one makes a single stage snow caster with a solid cross auger UNLESS you are will to invest in an RTV/UTV/quad bike motorized snow caster from Finland-they do move a lot of snow. you would need a quick attach kit for a front loader for it to work but the weight will not let you lift it very high and you would not want to do that anyway as the loader could not handle it.

A smaller mule with a loader and snow caster is a good combination to move snow and remove it. many of the members have them and use them on monster driveways and many that are on inclines/hills and they are well equipped with loader rear tires and snow chains for the work.

you have to do a lot of decision making with a decision tree and or a reverse decision tree if you want to be clinical about it to arrive at an algebraic solution to this.

Remember if you skimp on quality it will bite you in the posterior and you will not be happy changing shear pins in a snow storm and not having a magnet light and forgetting to use a tarp to lay on while working on it is the first mistake you will make.

Remember bringing a knife to a gun fight does not work unless you are good at throwing long distance and your opponent only needs one chance to do business.


its better to have more a mule with more power and a loader and a wider snow caster. You will not be able to dig up frozen snow banks with a loader or a plow

If you buy a snow caster with the extended chute option it gets the snow above the canopy or cab and reduces the snow dust to a minimum.


In one of my threads I went through this completely and much greater detail for a member and I am sure its still on the snow removal or attachments section.


ASK YOUR NEIGHBORs about what they use for snow as you will be the one stuck with the task and you know how much time and money you have to work with.


Never mind the horsepower per foot of width suggestions!!!!!!!, as the gearbox rating for the snow caster is what is doing the work for you. The poorly designed open auger method is a curse in snow of any depth as the snow is pushed forward as you back up or drive forward with a snow caster of either type.

A smaller 4 wheel drive mule will take longer with BOTH A rear mount AND a FRONT mount snow caster but you can use a loader the year round too and a mule without a loader has a very low resale and trade value!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have snow and ice a 4 wheel mule will get stuck and very stuck and you need chains and loader rear tires and avoid calcium chloride as it will eat the tire rims as most mules have tubeless tires now.

 

[leonz]

I just returned and found your post. There are several members with BX 1860's/BX2360's that have rear mount
snow casters and they have posted pictures of them working. The TBN member that lives in Newfoundland
has posted several videos of his snow clearing after storms/snowfall using a link to you tube from the snow removal page and you can watch as he works. His mule has a front end loader and no chains with turf tires and I do not believe his rear tires are loaded as he spins a lot with it so its a safe bet it has no ballast in the rear tires. I put up with that for one winter and then I bought a tire filling valve from gemplers and simply filled the rears with gallon bottles of windshield washer fluid until I had 6 or 7 gallons in each rear tire. I have two suitcase weights (82 pounds) and snow chains and sometimes that is not enough due to the LA115 being 2 wheel drive.

I believe his rear mount snow caster is an RAD hiding under Kubota paint uses a BX2360? to clear out his drive and parking space and the neighbors as well with good results.

The JD front mount I have is belt driven and a pain in the *** to repair and the JD belts are too expensive($120.00USD) and do not last. I have size A116 belt spares for it when the time comes to replace the one that is on there now.

My unit would be so much better off with a belt driven gear system that its not funny. The original IHC Cub Cadet I had while growing up had 12 horse power Briggs and Stratton and was a single stage snow caster and there was no pile of snow it did not remove. the single stage snow caster was belt driven to a right angle bevel gear drive system that rotated a drive shaft that came off the gear box to a chain drive outside the snow blower frame for the solid cross augers rotation and all that thing did was work and barely grunted when it met with snow.

 

[PILOON]

Heck, a rear snow caster with a camera system (in a cabbed tractor) makes life good ( at an affordable budget).
Cabbed for comfort, camera to save the neck .
FRT mount casters are a 'make do to meet market' and not all that great IMHO, tractors are designed to use the rear PTO.
Heck I installed a camera system and honestly I simply sit 'side saddle' and blow going backwards, after all It is all of 20-30 mins every snow event, won't kill me!.

 

[dnw64]

No final decision yet, but I am currently inclined to a CUT with rear 3pt blower.

I've located a Kubota L275 4WD. Yes, it's 35 years old but has under 1000 hours and would seem to have been very well maintained, and has new AG tires all round.

Based on the dimensions and power I'm thinking that a 64" blower would be a good match, and that would be a good fit for my site, I believe.

KUBOTA L275

One further question. When you talk about a "mule" I'm guessing, from context, that refers to s 2WD tractor?

 

[DHD]

I also recommend the 3 point snow blower, front loader, a cab and rear tire chains (2 link not 4 link).
For the past 12 years I've been using that combination, with my Kubota B7800.
I have a 530' and 300' driveway along with two large turn around areas, takes me 1.5 -2 hours, on every storm.
I'm not to sure you really need a heated cab. I dress for the cold incase I need to get out in the elements to change the occasional broken shear pin.
I'm 66 and find it often gets too warm in my unheated cab due to the heat generated by the tractor's engine and transmission. Sometimes the inside of the windshield fogs up, but is easily wiped clear. I'd recommend holding off on the heater, you can always ad it later if you think you need to.

I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, but IMHO a hydrostatic transmission should also be part of this combination.
An engine block heater would be good too.

 

[leonz]

No final decision yet, but I am currently inclined to a CUT with rear 3pt blower.

I've located a Kubota L275 4WD. Yes, it's 35 years old but has under 1000 hours and would seem to have been very well maintained, and has new AG tires all round.

Based on the dimensions and power I'm thinking that a 64" blower would be a good match, and that would be a good fit for my site, I believe.

KUBOTA L275

One further question. When you talk about a "mule" I'm guessing, from context, that refers to s 2WD tractor?

==================================================================================


Nope; A mule is either a 2 wheel tractor or a four wheel rear drive axle/or a 4 wheel drive tractor.

The L275 is an excellent Kubota Import directly from Japan.
Just check to be sure which direction the PTO rotates before you hand over any money as you
may need a reversing gearbox to run a rear mount snowcaster.

If it spins to the right you will need a reversing gearbox.

 

[DieselnHooters]

No final decision yet, but I am currently inclined to a CUT with rear 3pt blower.

I've located a Kubota L275 4WD. Yes, it's 35 years old but has under 1000 hours and would seem to have been very well maintained, and has new AG tires all round.

Based on the dimensions and power I'm thinking that a 64" blower would be a good match, and that would be a good fit for my site, I believe.

KUBOTA L275

One further question. When you talk about a "mule" I'm guessing, from context, that refers to s 2WD tractor?

Yep 60'' or 64'' would be a good match, tractor looks in great shape , you will be impressed at what a little beast like that can do with a quality blower and still under your budget

 

[dnw64]

If it spins to the right you will need a reversing gearbox.

Thanks for the tip! I haven't done anything with 3pts/PTOs for decades and would certainly have missed that "little" detail...