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[buickanddeere]

has somebody worked on the wiring that thinks that "ground and neutral are the same" ? Are there GFCI, AFCI or combo units ?
Don't know about the NEC but the CEC allows an exemption from GFCI use if the appliance is three prong and permanently blocking access to the receptacle such a a cupboard microwave, fridge, freezer or washing machine. Nothing in the kitchen or bathroom requires AFCI. Sump pump and alarm/smoke detectors are also AFCI exempt.

 

[ustmd]

So the breakers are tripping in the electric panel. Never had an outlet trip on it's own, always the breaker in the basement.

Usually 4 breakers will trip at once during a "wash" cycle, including the washing machine. But we have had times where none tripped during a wash cycle. (not sure if the well pump ran during that time).

I know every other circuit breaker is on a different pole. Well pump is at the bottom of the left side, 240. We trip breakers 2,3,4,7,8 all on the left side (Water heater is 5 and 6 and never trips).

2 and 4 are bedrooms with no loads. 3 is the washroom... not even sure what 7 and 8 are connected to, I think outside boxes... which, If I remember correctly, one box will trip real easy. (need to check into that, next time up).

Something is tripping the 4 (or 5) breakers and it's not on the outlet side...

{EDIT} I'm not sure how the panel is actually numbered, I was guessing that the left side is numbered, 1 at the top, 2 below it, then 3, 4, 5, 6, and so forth down the left side... I've seen now that the numbering goes back and forth from left to right side...)

teg,

Just for clarification, when your GFIs trip, are multiple circuits tripping all at the same time, e.g breakers 2,4, 6 all trip at the same time or is it the case that one will trip and then maybe an hour later another will, etc.?

 

[teg]

Teg,

If you will snap a pic of the panel.

Definitely, This Thursday!! I knew I should have done that last weekend...


teejk, Just GFCI at the panel... none at the outlets.

 

[teg]

has somebody worked on the wiring that thinks that "ground and neutral are the same" ? Are there GFCI, AFCI or combo units ? ....

I do not know what AFCI is and did not see that lettering on anything.

So a little back story... not related, but maybe. The builder was good, his subs. NOT so good. Lost count how many were fired. Plumber is the electrician... Plumbing "passed" code, I found a drain to our 2nd bath tub not hooked up. Electric "passed" code, I found a bundle of wire with live wires that shorted out when I went to inspect it... (if I can find the photo of it I'll post it)

Will plan to pay another electrician to come out and check and look at things but need to figure out what would cause 4-5 breakers to trip at the same time (no load).

 

[teg]

teg,

Just for clarification, when your GFIs trip, are multiple circuits tripping all at the same time, e.g breakers 2,4, 6 all trip at the same time or is it the case that one will trip and then maybe an hour later another will, etc.?

When we notice one has tripped, we go to the basement and almost always, there is at least one other that has tripped. Sometime two, sometimes 3 but mostly it's 4 and a few times 5 tripped when we go down to reset the one we need.

As far as I can remember, when we leave, no circuits trip but we do cut the power for the hot water and the well pump.

I think #1 GFCI and maybe #10 have never tripped.

THANK YOU ALL for any and all replies!!!! Hopefully, Thursday I'll post photos of the panel.

 

[gary49]

AFCI's are arc fault breakers. A picture of your panel will probably be enough for those of us who familiar with them to tell whether they are GFI or AFI breakers. Do you notice significant dimming of lights when a motor load starts?

 

[teg]

AFCI's are arc fault breakers. A picture of your panel will probably be enough for those of us who familiar with them to tell whether they are GFI or AFI breakers. Do you notice significant dimming of lights when a motor load starts?

Funny you should ask (or not, in my case). Flicker verses dim, actually never seen them "dim".

Our HVAC would not cycle completely... it would only stay on for a minute or so before shutting itself down. Even thou it didn't raise the temp. to the thermostat setting... Got a HVAC guy out there to look at it (pretty sharp guy) finally traced it to the water overflow cutoff (on the condensation drain line).

He took a screw driver and hit the pipe and the lights flicker (HVAC motor turning on and off). Cleaned out the drywall dust that was caked inside and it has worked fine since then.

Will do on the photos...

 

[teg]

Just to keep this thread interesting... (a different an electrical story... shocking, happened a few hours ago).

So we were flooded here in Raleigh. Do our normal "cleaning" of the basement. Unplug an electrical outlet that was under water (not the first time) and everything was fine with it... unlike the time floor outlets were making hot water (steam) another story...

SO we've been running 2 dehumidifiers pretty much non-stop. Finally had some basement lights go out and I go over to the panel and hear a "welding" noise... I've had this once before... arcing sounds.

No problem, head to Lowes and buy the wrong breaker... head back for the correct ones. First time around I cut the main, found I bought the wrong ones powered everything back on, except the one. (broke another one getting the first one out)

Jokingly told the wife who is a double E, naa, I'll wire it live... without thinking put in the first one. For the second one, I held the wire and rested my pinky finger on the panel to steady it and got a heck of a tingle!!!!

Was enjoying the music in the back ground when it dawned on me, I did wire it live... still not sure how that happened but the wife took an IR camera to the panel and a ground fault breaker (which is not hooked up) was pretty HOT!!!

Since it was not connected to any thing, I turned it off.... Deal with it later... (it a longer story typed out, sorry)

 

[QRTRHRS]

This may make some scratch their head but I swear it worked. Many years ago I had a house with a wet dirt floor basement. It was an old house (1720-1750) with a shallow basement. Rather that put up with mud when I had to do something down there, I tapered the dirt floor to one corner, put a little gravel down and poured a sump pump hole at the lowest point. The sump pump would kick the GFCI. I read in Popular Mechanics or Science, forget which now, that a "hospital rated" GFCI would not trip so readily upon the sump pump motor start up. It worked. That GFCI cost about 25 bucks in the early 80's compared to maybe less than ten for a regular GFCI at the time.

 

[CobyRupert]

Are they all really GFCI breakers? They have little white pigtails?
Why would you have GFCI's for bedrooms?
AFCI seems more likely.

However, let's assume they all are GFCI. Typically a GFCI trips when the "hot" current going out to the circuit and loads does not equal the same neutral current coming back. Then you know some current has "leaked". It usually only take around 3-5milliamps (3/1000th of an amp) of current imbalance for them to trip.

I be willing to bet the problem is in the circuits neutral(s) and/or an inadvertent ground bus connection. That somehow several circuit's neutrals are bonded and are splitting each others neutral current. That is, they provide an alternate parallel path for the neutral current. If the neutrals of several circuits were (somehow) connected (example: bonded to the common ground at their respective outlets), then all the circuits that are bonded would experience a "ground fault" because of the imbalance. This might only occur when certain loads are turned on, which is the only time you're creating a return neutral current.
One would think you'd get these trips happening from day #1.