Trying to construct a 3rd function

[aerojunkie]

Well after reading what others have done and recommended in this matter I have decided to look into assembling my own kit instead of buying premade. I just need some help with what parts I need. Here is what I have so far.

The valve:
12 VDC 1 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE | Solenoid Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Subplate:
1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER | Subplates | Hydraulic Adapters & Fittings | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Connectors (x2):
HIRSCHMANN CONNECTOR | Valve Parts & Accessories | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Quick connects (3 sets):
Ag Hydraulic Quick Connect Couplers, Poppet Valve, 7/8-14 ORB Thread - Summit Hydraulics

I still need hoses and looked at discount hose and came up with around $150 there. Also need a switch and still researching where and what to get for that. Is there anything else I am missing, or should change? I was all set to order a complete kit.......I just can't bring myself to spend that $900 total for few easy to order parts.

 

[jcummins]

Use a switch for atv winch. Waterproof and can be cable tied to your regular handle.

 

[LD1]

Valve and sub plate look good. Step one is to get it and get it mounted.

Why do you need 3 sets of couplers? Do you have two front end attachments?

Regarding couplers.....you can really use whatever you want. As long as all your attachments are the same. But the 1/2" body couplers with 5/8" ORB thread arent what I would choose. For starters, that would mean you need hoses with a -10 ORB end. And those are more $$$. And 1/2" coupler body is overkill for your tractor (but the universal size for rear attachments).

For my front, I chose to go with 1/4" body size couplers of the ISO b 7241 series. Same thing that is on all my meyer snow plows. So I always have couplers on hand, and can throw any one of my plows up on the FEL and be set.

For hoses, you will likely need one short one, and two long ones.

The power beyond out of the loader, needs unhooked. Now basically you are putting the new valve between the loader valve and that power beyond hose (splicing it in if you will). So you need a short hose to go from your current loader valve to the new D03 base. It "might" be possible to mount in a location that the hose you took off the FEL power beyond will still reach the new valve outlet. (saves a hose). If not you will need a short hose there.

Then you need two long hoses to go from the work ports of the 3rd valve to your front couplers.

The short hose(s) that you are splicing in the valve with, Id go 3/8". For your D03 plate you will need a pair of -06 ORB to JIC adapters.

For the loader hoses running up front, No need to go more than 1/4" IMO. So for these hoses (of whatever length required), I'd get one end with 1/4" NPT male threads (tho thread on a 1/4" coupler), and the other end 1/4" JIC female. To hook into a JIC-ORB adapter at the valve.

But all these fittings and hoses, depends on where you mount the valve. Are you going to need 90 degree or 45 degree fittings to get hose routing where you want???

And if your current PB hose coming off the loader valve is long enough to reach the new 3rd valve....what type of fitting is on the end of it? You would need the appropriate adapter to go from it to the -06 ORB of the DO3

I guess what I am getting at is in a case like this, unless you have installed this setup on that same tractor many times.....dont try to order everything at once. Because the odds of you getting everything you need, to run it how you want, without alot of extra parts....slim to none.

Get the valve and sub plate. Get it mounted. Then see if the PB hose will reach....and what type of hose end it has. IF it does reach...what adapter do you need? Straight, 45, or 90 degree. IF it dont reach....what do you need for a short hose to make it reach.

Same thing with all the rest of the hoses. Wont know if you need straights, 90's or 45's til its mounted.

Cannot help on the button. I went diverter and got a joystick with buttons included

 

[aerojunkie]

Thank you for all the info LD1, your post has been read through quite a few times today by me. My goal was to get just the valve, subplate, and a few fittings ordered. Then measure hoses and order them and go from there. I thought the typical setup has 3 sets of connectors, one set for the grapple end on the loader, and one set to make each connection at the valve so the loader could be removed if needed.

I was looking through Northern Tool's website for some odd pieces and ran across this valve, looks a little cleaner without the hirschmann connectors mounted on top. Just not sure if its as well made as the one from surplus.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329586_200329586

 

[LD1]

Thank you for all the info LD1, your post has been read through quite a few times today by me. My goal was to get just the valve, subplate, and a few fittings ordered. Then measure hoses and order them and go from there. I thought the typical setup has 3 sets of connectors, one set for the grapple end on the loader, and one set to make each connection at the valve so the loader could be removed if needed.

I was looking through Northern Tool's website for some odd pieces and ran across this valve, looks a little cleaner without the hirschmann connectors mounted on top. Just not sure if its as well made as the one from surplus.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329586_200329586

Yea, I guess I overlooked unhooking it from the tractor.

Not used to walking through a step by step of a 3rd. With the diverter, and it mounted to the loader, the only thing that changed with the loader removal process is a single electrical plug.

 

[N2DFire]

I was looking through Northern Tool's website for some odd pieces and ran across this valve, looks a little cleaner without the hirschmann connectors mounted on top. Just not sure if its as well made as the one from surplus.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329586_200329586

Looks exactly like what I used from Fremont Industrial Supply. Valve was made by "Power Valve" - Probably the same one at Northern with a different label.

fremontindustrialsupply.com
D03 hydraulic solenoid valve 4 way 3 position, P open to Tank with ports A & B blocked 12 VOLT DC
SKU: HD-3C6-G02-LW-F-DC12*

 

[oldnslo]

On the directional valve. When it is called out OC does that mean all ports are common in the center condition or are "A" & "B" (work ports) blocked with "P" & "T" common? Also check on the tank port pressure capabilities of the D03. I believe the Vickers DG4V 3 are good to 3,000 PSI but some models are only good to 1,500 PSI or less.

 

[LD1]

"technically" what you want is called a tandem center.

P open to T when in neutral

A and B blocked.

A "true" open center has P, T, A, B all common. Meaning your hydraulics wouldnt hold position (pressure) when in neutral.

But many refer to a tandem center valve as open center

 

[aerojunkie]

How reliable are these solenoids? I have seen quite a few brands out there and since this is the main component in this I should go by more than just price. Any particular brand recommended? I like the simpler look of the Northman but I know Eaton is a good name.

 

[LD1]

Not much experience with cheaper ones. They do seem to be popular though. I put a cheap one on my tractor for my diverter, but it's only been a year.

In industry, Eaton, Vickers, rexroth
, And Parker seem to be the too few

 

[aerojunkie]

I may have just gotten a better option. I was poking around the baileys hydraulic website the other day and found this.

Shopping

Doesnt include the hoses and a couple fittings but does include the main components, so at $490 I was tempted but held off. Now I just got a code for 15% off my first order, so that same setup is $417 shipped. What do you guys think?

 

[ericm979]

There's also the CA kit:

Construction Attachments Dedicated Third Function Hydraulic Valve Kit, Less Hoses, Up To 14 GPM

 

[aerojunkie]

There's also the CA kit:

Construction Attachments Dedicated Third Function Hydraulic Valve Kit, Less Hoses, Up To 14 GPM

I looked at that one and sent them an email a couple weeks ago on it asking about one for my tractor. All they said was they didnt have one for the mahindra 2538. Is that just a generic kit to add just the hoses to? I do like that the CA one has the mounting brackets and 3 sets of quick couplers.

 

[ericm979]

I think it's generic.

 

[aerojunkie]

Is that what you have? If so how do you like it?

 

[ericm979]

I don't have one yet, just been doing research for a future grapple.

 

[N2DFire]

I may have just gotten a better option. I was poking around the baileys hydraulic website the other day and found this.

Shopping

Doesnt include the hoses and a couple fittings but does include the main components, so at $490 I was tempted but held off. Now I just got a code for 15% off my first order, so that same setup is $417 shipped. What do you guys think?

Solenoid - $120.80 Free S/H from Freemont Industrial Supply.
D03 Subplate $35.95 + S/H from Surplus Center
Control Grip - John Deer - $84.80 + S/H from greenfarmparts.com
Generic Automotive relays (Pack of 6 w/ wiring pigtails) $11 Amazon.com
1/2" Flat Face Couplers - $38.95 + S/H from Surplus Center

Grand total $291.50 + the various S/H

That means the mounting plate & wiring harness should be worth $125 to equal your discounted price of $417 for this kit and either way you still need hoses & fittings and most likely at least 2 more sets of couplers depending on where / how you mount the valve & how your loader detaches.

The bottom line is you can almost always build a better set-up than you get with any kit. The extra cost of the kit is the "convenience fee" of not having to shop around and source & match all the components yourself. Your time is worth something but only you can put the right value on it.

It's like I tell my dad, every job will "cost" you two things - Time & Money. The more of one you have to spend, the less you need of the other.

 

[aerojunkie]

Solenoid - $120.80 Free S/H from Freemont Industrial Supply.
D03 Subplate $35.95 + S/H from Surplus Center
Control Grip - John Deer - $84.80 + S/H from greenfarmparts.com
Generic Automotive relays (Pack of 6 w/ wiring pigtails) $11 Amazon.com
1/2" Flat Face Couplers - $38.95 + S/H from Surplus Center

Grand total $291.50 + the various S/H

That means the mounting plate & wiring harness should be worth $125 to equal your discounted price of $417 for this kit and either way you still need hoses & fittings and most likely at least 2 more sets of couplers depending on where / how you mount the valve & how your loader detaches.

The bottom line is you can almost always build a better set-up than you get with any kit. The extra cost of the kit is the "convenience fee" of not having to shop around and source & match all the components yourself. Your time is worth something but only you can put the right value on it.

It's like I tell my dad, every job will "cost" you two things - Time & Money. The more of one you have to spend, the less you need of the other.

I have been bouncing around these options for over a week. So I used what I have learned thus far and tried to come up with a good cost comparison, let me know if you think this sounds about right.

I went into surplus center and put together what I believe to be a complete kit with valve, subplate, all hose fittings, hoses, and flat face couplers. The total with shipping comes to $318.96. I have a good idea of where I want to mount everything so measured some hoses and added a ft to each for pricing purposes, the total is as close an estimate as I can come up with.

The only thing missing is the electrical wiring and a switch like a scorpion, WR long, or suregrips. From what I have gathered on those they are in the $100-$125 range, but also looking at the cheaper atv swith in the $20-$25 range. I have also looked at the John Deere grip above and would go that route if my loader handle was beside the seat instead of beside the steering wheel.

Looks like the total for a complete custom type setup is in the $420-$450 range. Adding those same fittings, hoses, and flat face couplers at a total of $140 w/shipping to the Idaho Implement setup at $458 w/shipping comes to a total of $598 shipping included.

At first I was looking at the kit from Bailey's but after several days from sending 2 emails with questions and no answer yet Im not real hopeful on going with them. I then looked more at the construction attachments kit, send 2 emails and within a day or so received a response both times which is a good sign to me for help if I need it. If I can get the wiring aspect nailed down then the custom kit it is and pocket the $150-$180, and if not then even at about $600 the CA Attachments is still cheaper than other options I have ran across.

 

[N2DFire]

I think you are on the right track & well on your way to doing this yourself. Honestly you've already done most of the hard work.

I have a good idea of where I want to mount everything

That is the hardest part. Some of these partial kits (without hoses) still leave you to figure this out yourself so you save nothing buying those vs buying the components yourself other than the time to source them all out - which you have already done.

I went into surplus center and put together what I believe to be a complete kit with valve, subplate, all hose fittings, hoses, and flat face couplers. The total with shipping comes to $318.96. ... the total is as close an estimate as I can come up with.

I originally went to school to be an engineer so stuff makes more sense to me when I can draw it or list it out rather than just trying to see it in my head so I threw together a quick n dirty spread sheet for you listing the basic components - you'll have to fill in the specifics like what size fittings & hoses, thread callouts, etc but it's a component by component list of all the parts you should need.

Almost all your quick couplers have NPT threads so it's up to you to decide if you want NPT ends on the hoses they connect to or if you want JIC ends and JIC to NPT adapters but I will say that (with the exception of my loader arm hoses that have QC's on both ends) I wish I had gone with JIC everywhere in my project. It would have made some things a lot easier and in some cases cheaper too.

If I can get the wiring aspect nailed down then the custom kit it is ...

It's actually not as bad as you think. (I know one of my favorite sayings is "Brain Surgery is easy when you know how to do it")

The solenoid will have 3 terminals - Function A Positive. Function B Positive, and Ground

The control switch should have 3 wires - Positive In (Center of switch), Button A out, and Button B out.

From your power source (Battery, fuse box, whatever) go to the center of the switch,
then A out on switch goes to Function A on solenoid,
B out on switch goes to Function B on solenoid,
then Ground the Solenoid to the chassis.
Done.

Be sure to add fusing if you're not using an already protected circuit, and another idea I liked that I "borrowed" from another members build, is adding a simple toggle switch in the power circuit before the control switch so I could turn off the 3rd function. This is an extra safety so I don't accidentally activate the solenoid when nothing is attached and dead head the hydraulics. An idiot switch if you will.

When you take it bit by bit, it really is a pretty simple project and you should be able to do it just fine.

Besides - you have tons of help & resources here if you get stuck.

 

[aerojunkie]

Thank you for the help N2D, I have been reading your post and you explained everything I should need to get this done! The checklist was very nice I am making sure I get it correct before ordering.

I have looked online and seen a few others like snowback and slharmin1 with the same tractor installing their solenoids and I cant seem to find a better place than on the right side of the loader bracket just like they did. I would love to mount it under the seat like you did but I dont have an area like that in mine.

See post #2

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/mahindra-owning-operating/380599-3rd-function-grapple-2538-a.html

I was looking to use a piggyback fuse to add the 12v power so that should take care of the fuse part.

Add A Circuit Fuse ATO ATC Tap Piggy Back Standard Blade Fuse Holder, ATO ATC Fuse Tap (Add-a-fuse): Electrical Fuse Holders: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Just found this switch......looks interesting.

POLARIS - SHIFT LEVER WINCH SWITCH 2877874 | eBay