Pop in FEL Curl Cylinder in my BX25D - Bucket uncurls on own weight

[analog]

I was using my tractor's FEL today and I heard a loud pop up by the FEL while having the bucket about half way curled against the ground pulling backward. Immediately afterward, I can curl the bucket all the way but it starts uncurling without any weight in it, it will uncurl within probably 30 seconds. Curling it back up occasionally makes another popping sound in the cylinder, so there seems to be something broken in there. I can hold weight with it as long as I keep the bucket curled, although I haven't tested it with any large amount of weight.

Any suggestions? How hard is it to service yourself?

Thanks for any advice in advance.

 

[Fallon]

I was using my tractor's FEL today and I heard a loud pop up by the FEL while having the bucket about half way curled against the ground pulling backward. Immediately afterward, I can curl the bucket all the way but it starts uncurling without any weight in it, it will uncurl within probably 30 seconds. Curling it back up occasionally makes another popping sound in the cylinder, so there seems to be something broken in there. I can hold weight with it as long as I keep the bucket curled, although I haven't tested it with any large amount of weight.

Any suggestions? How hard is it to service yourself?

Thanks for any advice in advance.

Backdragging with the bucket at a steep or negative ang puts A LOT of pressure on the curl cylinders if you lift the front end. It's also pushing on the cylinders in compression where they are unsupported on the sides rather than pulling on them in tension where they are intrinsically pulled straight. This kind of stress would pretty much be considered abuse.

You likely have 2 options.

Option 1: You bent a rod & either need to replace the road or the whole cylinder.
Option 2: you blew the cylinder packing & need new packing seals (either DIY for $100ish have a hydraulic shop do it)

 

[analog]

Thanks. If I buy a gland and nut wrench, I should be able to take it apart and see if the rod is bent, right? By the way, what I was actually doing was along the lines of this:

Homemade trencher digging trench for cables - YouTube

I feel like I put more pressure on it doing other things, but maybe not

 

[Spanner]

Your machine so you use it how you like - not for me to preach but... Painful to watch and sheer abuse of the machine imho.
Damage possibly done/initiated in earlier misuse events?
Good luck with your repair and potential future issues.

 

[analog]

No, I appreciate the advice. This is the first tractor I have ever owned. I feel like I have done more to it in the past, using the bucket to scrape, so yeah, maybe it was worse. I could have also been digging at a bad angle that just put way too much pressure on the bucket this go round. I do appreciate the advice and I'll be seeking out the hydraulic shop on Tuesday. Of course this stuff always happens when everyone is closed.

 

[Deere Dude]

I had a drooping curl cylinder and it ended up being the packing glands. But I did notice that the rod ends were loose in both cylinders. That didn't cause the dropping but for a new tractor they should have tight. Stuff happens.

 

[Fallon]

No, I appreciate the advice. This is the first tractor I have ever owned. I feel like I have done more to it in the past, using the bucket to scrape, so yeah, maybe it was worse. I could have also been digging at a bad angle that just put way too much pressure on the bucket this go round. I do appreciate the advice and I'll be seeking out the hydraulic shop on Tuesday. Of course this stuff always happens when everyone is closed.

Nice to hear & everybody hast to learn somehow. Hopefully it doesn't cost to much for the education. I'm just lucky I didn't break anything before I learned that particular weakness.

You should most likely be able to check the rods for straightness by extending them & checking with a straight edge.

Having a pro do if you aren't familiar with hydraulics isn't a bad idea at all.

 

[analog]

Nice to hear & everybody hast to learn somehow. Hopefully it doesn't cost to much for the education. I'm just lucky I didn't break anything before I learned that particular weakness.

You should most likely be able to check the rods for straightness by extending them & checking with a straight edge.

Having a pro do if you aren't familiar with hydraulics isn't a bad idea at all.

I'm not familiar, but I like to learn. I'd always rather be able to repair and get things moving myself, if possible.

So to that end, what angle is a safe for tilting and dragging the bucket? Or maybe better is what at what angle does it become dangerous?

Thanks

 

[diesel85]

I'm not familiar, but I like to learn. I'd always rather be able to repair and get things moving myself, if possible.

So to that end, what angle is a safe for tilting and dragging the bucket? Or maybe better is what at what angle does it become dangerous?

Thanks

Watch this: The Basics: Back Dragging with Loader Bucket - YouTube

 

[LD1]

Yes it sounds like you damaged a curl cylinder. Some good videos I this thread on what to do and what not to do.

The guy with the steel chained to the bucket trenching....yea that's abuse. If you were doing that, don't do it again. The stresses put on from backdragging with the bucket too steep, are magnified when you put a 2' lever on there.

No offense intended, but the phrase "this is my first tractor" seems to come up all the time when someone does something wrong and damages the tractor or loader. And most all of this stuff is spelled out in the manual. Does not one read them anymore? My manual has SEVERAL of those pictures showing incorrect and correct ways of doing things

 

[radioman]

its not hard to service the cylinders yourself. however have you rechecked your middle cylinder hoses on the mounting block quick connects to make sure the hoses are hooked up tight? i also want to make sure the hoses are hooked up by color correctly... if they were - lets just say somehow they were switched with the fel up and down cylinders -- maybe the detent up is making it go into relief --- giving you that pop.
but you say you have to keep curling it so i doubt it .

so - check the hoses connection first. if they appear to be good - i would take the middle cylinder out and take a look . the hardest part of the whole job is to take the end off with a correct spanner wrench. i am sure the 0 rings and or wiper rings is torn inside .

 

[analog]

I did check the hoses and the quick connects. Everything is fine as far as that is concerned. I'm certain it's in the cylinder. I ordered a tool that the service manual talks about to open it up, an adjustable gland nut wrench. I also checked the piston rod with the bucket fully uncurled and it's straight. So I guess the next step is to get it off and get it taken apart and see what's what.

Can someone answer this for me please, I'm assuming it's best to curl the bucket and then remove cylinder? It doesn't specify in the service manual. I would assume I would and the steps might then be:

Curl the bucket
Lower the boom to the ground
Disconnect the hydraulic quick connects
Remove the hydraulic line at the top first then the second
Unpin the cylinder and remove

Is that reasonable or is there something better I should be doing?

Again, thanks for all the advice, and yeah I should read the manual better, I am sure the part about dragging the bucket is in there. Thanks to the guy who sent the backdragging video.

 

[dodge man]

I would think you would want the bucket flat on the ground so there is no pressure on the system. Not sure though.

 

[Spanner]

"Curl the bucket
Lower the boom to the ground
Switch-off engine.
Operate joystick in all four directions to release all hydraulic pressure in hoses.
Disconnect the hydraulic quick connects
Remove the hydraulic line at the top first then the second
Unpin the cylinder and remove

Is that reasonable or is there something better I should be doing?"

 

[newbury]

Thanks. If I buy a gland and nut wrench, I should be able to take it apart and see if the rod is bent, right? By the way, what I was actually doing was along the lines of this:

Homemade trencher digging trench for cables - YouTube

I feel like I put more pressure on it doing other things, but maybe not

That video is down right TRACTOR ABUSE!!

Think of the leverage and if you hit a rock.

Why in heck didn't he drag that with the 3pt?

Might as well hook a plow to the bucket. and plow backwards.

 

[analog]

I was doing it where there aren't any rocks either. I'm sure I just had too steep of an angle, but I certainly am going to do something different this time. I think what I'll do instead is mount it to the back of my box scraper, using a piece of wood to get the angle on it and then just drag it around.

Another question, the manual refers to a sliding jig and a correcting jig, which are pictured in the general section but no part number is given in either location. Are these really necessary? And is there a certain type of assembly grease I should be using?

 

[analog]

I took the cylinder off on Sunday. Called this morning and the hydraulic shop wants $50 just to open it up and diagnose it. They say if it's just the seals they will charge me $250-300, which kind of blew me away considering others have said that job might take 20 minutes, and a new kubota seal kit is around a hundred. They said they can order seals for it for less than kubota would charge, so their labor rates are just through the roof. I already ordered the gland nut wrench so I'm going to try to open it myself and see if I can figure out what's wrong. A whole new cylinder will cost me $430+shipping. I feel like I have nothing to lose by giving it a go.

 

[Egon]

If you got the cylinder off can you pull out the ram?

 

[analog]

You mean the piston? I meant I took the cylinder assembly off the tractor. Now I have to get the cap off with that wrench.

 

[LD1]

No not the Piston. The ram.....or cylinder rod.

No need to remove the gland nut for what is being asked.

Try to pull the rod out (extend the cylinder). Hydraulic ports have to be open and unhooked, and oil will come out rod port when you pull the rod out. Have a bucket to not make a mess.

If you pull the rod, it should stop when fully extended, this is the Piston (inside) hitting the gland cap and being retained.

If the rod pulls all the way out....which is what we are wanting to see, it means the Piston became detached from the rod. Might have just come unthreaded, or might have broke