Dirt Moving An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro

[Rock Crawler]

I agree with Mike. I'll show you 17 degrees and 32 degrees.... Your not using high range on either. Maybe not mid range.

The photo with the leaves in the yard is the 16-17 degree main yard.
The photo with the Craftsman garden tractor is a 32 degree bank going up to a guardrail.

I used a 6 foot level laying on the ground with a mechanical angle finder laying on the beam to determine the angles.

 

[arrow]

I agree with Mike. I'll show you 17 degrees and 32 degrees.... Your not using high range on either. Maybe not mid range.

The photo with the leaves in the yard is the 16-17 degree main yard.
The photo with the Craftsman garden tractor is a 32 degree bank going up to a guardrail.

I used a 6 foot level laying on the ground with a mechanical angle finder laying on the beam to determine the angles.

You could be correct. Won't know till I tried it but I made a mistake when I used the asterisk which normally means "degrees" instead of using the "percent" key. I meant a 30% incline which is less than a third of 45* incline which neither of your pics demonstrate.

 

[arrow]

Sorry. I did mean 30% and not 30* which is more than 2 times steeper than a 30% grade. My machine has only two ranges with 8 forward speeds and will go up a 30% incline in 5th gear or 1/high. It will skid a 1500lb hitch in third (or 3 low) going up this same hill.

 

[tmcj]

I have the Mahindra Max 26XL HST and love it. The only other tractors I have spent a lot of seat time on was a Farmall Super C and a Farmall M, so it's not really a fair comparison but it is 10 times easier to the same chores with the HST Max. I do a lot of mowing grass with my Max, and a fair amount of brush hogging, light excavating, snow plowing, etc. Once you get onto to it, it is so slick to work with that I doubt I would ever go back to a gear model unless I was plowing fields or something of that nature.

The only thing I really question with it is the left & right brake pedals. I used them very frequently on the Farmall tractors especially since both were a narrow front end, but unless you have the "cruise" set it is next to impossible to use the treadle and one of the brake pedals. I'm sure there may be a use for it but I haven't needed it yet. Actually, about the only time I even used the brake pedals is to set the parking brake. Controlling the treadle pretty much eliminates the need for brakes otherwise.

 

[DK35vince]

I have the Mahindra Max 26XL HST and love it. The only other tractors I have spent a lot of seat time on was a Farmall Super C and a Farmall M, so it's not really a fair comparison but it is 10 times easier to the same chores with the HST Max. I do a lot of mowing grass with my Max, and a fair amount of brush hogging, light excavating, snow plowing, etc. Once you get onto to it, it is so slick to work with that I doubt I would ever go back to a gear model unless I was plowing fields or something of that nature.

Its many times easier with a shuttle shift or power reverser gear models compared to those also.

 

[tmcj]

Its many times easier with a shuttle shift or power reverser gear models compared to those also.

No doubt. I know it was apples to oranges, but my point is that I would much rather have an HST over a clutch and gearshift any day for the chores that I typically take on. Gotta love those old workhorses though. These new machines are great but there's nothing like firing up a 60+year old tractor and putting her to work and it doesn't miss a beat. :thumbsup:

 

[troverman]

Hmm.

I had a Simplicity Legacy tractor (if you can call it that, but it did have a 3-point hitch) with a hydrostatic transmission, two ranges, and twin pedals on the right side. I became extremely adept at operating it.

That was replaced by a Kubota B2920 HST with three ranges. I guess you could call it a treadle HST, but the ends of the treadle are connected underneath the platform. I thought I'd prefer the twin pedal, but after 4 years of using it and 600 hours...it is effortless.

I also have a Kubota L4310 with the GlideShift transmission. 8 gear choices, a clutch, and a reverser. You can shift on the fly, which is very nice. I actually prefer it over the HST. It is not as quick and convenient in all situations but it gives you the pulling power of gears and some of the versatility of the HST. I operate this tractor with a 6-foot flail mower on very steep slopes which I have to back up in order to make it, in 3rd gear out of 8.

I find the cruise control on the B2920 doesn't work very well (better than nothing) but I'm sure the Kubotas with HST Plus are much nicer.

 

[Crank Shaft]

I love my Kubota B2320 HST (hydrostatic) but in some respect I miss my old B6200 geared tractor. Here is what I love about HST:

1) Instant forward-reverse.
2) Precise speed control.
3) PTO shaft stays spinning when tractor stops, unlike the B6200 geared.

Here is what I don't like about HST:

1) Throttle must be set and forget and this means engine revs high all the time and consumes more fuel than geared.
2) Longer warm-up times in cold weather.
3) I cannot just push in the clutch and coast.
4) Less hill-climbing ability than geared.

Others on this thread have noted the lack of hill-climbing power on some HST tractors. I have a steep dirt road that the B6200 could easily climb even when towing a trailer full of firewood. My B2320 HST, despite having 5 more HP has great difficulty coming up the same road and I often get stuck even when not towing a trailer.
I would like to know why this is the case. Anyone have any insights they want to share? Despite these shortcoming, I would not go back to geared drive.

 

[troverman]

3) PTO shaft stays spinning when tractor stops, unlike the B6200 geared.


Others on this thread have noted the lack of hill-climbing power on some HST tractors. I have a steep dirt road that the B6200 could easily climb even when towing a trailer full of firewood. My B2320 HST, despite having 5 more HP has great difficulty coming up the same road and I often get stuck even when not towing a trailer.
I would like to know why this is the case. Anyone have any insights they want to share? Despite these shortcoming, I would not go back to geared drive.

Note that just *because* you have a geared tractor doesn't mean the PTO must stop when the tractor stops. If you have an independent PTO, you are all set.

As for the B2320 having more power but not climbing as well, the biggest factor is an HST transmission consumes a larger portion of the available engine horsepower than a geared transmission does. The geared transmission has a direct connection from the engine to the gears and to the wheels once the clutch is released. The HST transmission requires the engine to run a high-pressure pump which uses pressurized hydraulic fluid to turn a motor through a variable nozzle which then supplies power to the rear (and front if 4x4) axles.

 

[Crank Shaft]

Note that just *because* you have a geared tractor doesn't mean the PTO must stop when the tractor stops. If you have an independent PTO, you are all set.

As for the B2320 having more power but not climbing as well, the biggest factor is an HST transmission consumes a larger portion of the available engine horsepower than a geared transmission does...

Thanks for the response Troverman. Yes I am well aware that larger tractors have a live clutch that allows for continuous PTO operation but this is not the case with smaller lawn and garden tractors like my B6200. I was just comparing my experience HST vs geared drives on lawn/garden tractors.

What you say about the HP requirements of the HST pump makes sense, but in my case I don't think that is why I get stuck. I get stuck because of lack of traction not lack of HP. The wheels will spin and dig holes in the dirt road despite my use of the differential lock. So something else is to blame here. The tires on the HST are larger than the 6200 but I would think that would provide better traction, not less.