Carry permit. Would traffic stop make police be more cautious? yea or nay?

[Soundguy]

I told the officer that he should either arrest me or stop looking around in my vehicle because he was wasting both our time. He wasn't looking out for his safety, but looking to see if he could nail me for having something illegal in vehicle. I was driving a VW golf with a kayak rack on the roof up past the Boone area. Boone being a college town, he just figured I was a boater out partying or something and I have no doubt he was looking to bust me for drugs.

The officer is in charge, but the officer also has legal limitations that they generally surpass because IMO they (LEO) feels that they can not be questioned per their actions because they are the law. This is why it should be SOP for any driver of a vehicle to start recording the interaction for their own records as well.

The reason why I asked for the link to the story is because some things just don't add up per your description of the story.

I remember driving home late one night from work. I had an old dodge truck.. it has / had 2 tag lights. I work in the music / entertainment industry some nights, so sometimes I am driving late. I also have long hair. ( Yes.. I've been pulled many times for DWLH - Drivng with long hair ). Anway.. coming home, I got pulled. 2 police officers approach, one on each side. It's pitch black except for my old trucks dome lamp, which was on ). Both police had mag lights.. I had the windows rolled down. Both lights were put in my face. Police officer asked me a few questions. where are you going, have you been drinking, do you have any drugs or paraf. on you or in your truck. Finaly after about 5-6 questions, Do you know why you were pulled over. ( all answers so far have been : no ). " One of your tag lights is out ". I'm thinking to myself.. WTF.. 1 of my 2 tag lights is out and I'm getting pulled over?.. must be a slow night... In any case, next question is to ask for my license. I pull my wallet out and attempt to try to find my license. Keep in mind that it's midinight with no street lamps, a dim dome lamp and 2 big maglights are aimed in my face. I can't even open my eyes. I try for about 30 seconds to crack my eyes to see if I can see what cards I am pulling out.. I can't. I mention to the officers that I can't see because of the lights in my face... nothing happens.. lights don't move any.. after a pause of about 10 seconds, I just hand my wallet out the window and tell the officewr that I simply cannot see anything because of the lights in my face and that my license is for sure in my wallet, but I cannot see. The police officer declines to take my wallet and then mumbles something to the other police officer, and the lights move down from my eyes to my chin, so that I can just barely crack my eyes open to see a little bit. I pull my license, hand it out the window towards the blinding light. the officer at the window leaves for a minute, then comes back, hands me my license and says I am free to go. I mention that I'm going to pull into the 24 hr walmart down the road and get that 2nd tag light replaced on the way home hoping to lighten the mood. Not a word from either officer. they went back to the car behind me and sat there. I sat there for a full minute so my eyes could see again.. then pulled out, and sure enough.. went tot he walmart down the road, grabbed that 2nd tag lamp, and grabbed one of thse bolt on tag lamps from the 'help' section, and replaced the 2nd one laying int he parking lot that night.. when I got home .. the next morning I added a third. I remember searching the law about tag lamps... and don't ever recall finding anything that mentioned how many you had to have.. but that you had to have them. Looking around.. I have seen many vehicles with only 1 central lamp over the tag.

I know for sure they were fishing.. and giving me a hard time hoping to find something using the tag lamp out as probable cause.

The lights in my eyes? what was that? Having fun at the citizens expense? keeping me 100% blinded during the entire stop.. and asking me for stuff I can't do while blinded? really?

 

[Thall303]

And ironically enough, you still can't answer a direct question pertaining to a comment YOU made which I believe you meant as factual, that being what does "anger management" have to do with fears or phobias?

Re reading my post that you last quoted, not also cerain where you're assuming I have anger issues to begin with.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to answer that one as well.

I still can figure out why some people posts some things as factual on a internet forum, then when asked about them, fail to show any information to back up what they're stating.

Rambling is a precursor to violence!

 

[Soundguy]

This reminds me of something a friend of mine and I witnessed back in the 70s. We were out quite late at night with our bicycles and saw some Young Peel Regional Police Officers pull over a couple of young men. It was quite obvious that they were just returning from camping.

The officers were searching the vehicle and one of the young men attempted to light a cigarette. An officer slapped the cigarettes out of his hand (ours are in small boxes not soft packs) spilling them onto the roadway. I will never forget that, and how I felt sorry for the young man, and how that was so uncalled for. The officers found nothing and sent them on their way.

I wonder if the Cop was just showing off his authority to us.

I have a couple more stories.

As I mentioned in another reply, as a night job I have and still do, run sound and do band equipment, PA's, etc.

A buddy of mine was coming home from orlando one evening, at night his small car loaded with PA gear, etc. He gets pulled over for DWLH ( we are both used to this ). He was unlucky enough to have a just-emptied-ziplock bag of powdered donuts on his center console and a cup of jiffy store coffee . Police showed up.. took everything out of his car, and I mena everything. found nothing of course, then they all hopped back in their cars and took off. leaving him on the side of the road in orlando, with the sun now down, to completely re-pack his car in the dark, by himself.

I remember when he told me that I thought.. wow.. glad I didn't do that gig and you went instead.

Some time later I was driving home with the wife in a ford aerostar cargo van from a gig in daytona or ormond beach. she was still in stage clothes and yes, we had a huge load of PA gear, including some 18" sub cabinets in back.

It was the middle of the night, and I was driving on a back road. I was actually very familiar with the road and it had bad curves.. very bad curves, some of them almost switchback style. I was driving under the speed limit, and got pulled over. It was during the winter, probably had a jeans jacket, maybee.. but it was in the high 30's outside. Usual questions.. drinking? drugs? nope.. nope.. ( but you have long hair and are musicians.. are you sure? ) Anyway.. more cops showed up.. they started unloading the van... one gave me a sobriety test on t he side of the road. all the cops are wearing nice looking thick jackets... i'm not. They unpack about half the gear.. but not the subs.. they are too heavy.

Find nothing.. I'm shivvering at this point... they hop in their warm cars and leave. My van's ice cold.. been open to the air for half an hour now.. and it's a cargo van so all metal inside, and just heat up front.

This kind of behavior just seems over the top from my point of view....

 

[Soundguy]

The most ironic part of this with you three is if tonight you are violated you will instantly call the LEOs and expect them to right this wrong.

Yes.. I will expect them to do their job.

especially since if a civilian defends themself.. they invite a whole world of liability and investigation on themselves, even if 100% justified.

 

[Soundguy]

The only reason I would call a cop is if it was required for me to have a police report.
I expect nothing more from them and don't even expect that to be accurate.

I remember about 10 - 15 ys ago I was having a problem with people riding ATV's up and down a dirt road in front of my farm,, every now and then they would wipe out and take out some fencing poles ( t-post ). I remember calling the sheriff's dept and asking that a report be made. The officer stated that unless the people were there that he couldn't do anything. I said that I understood, but wanted a report made so that it would be on record. He said that would be a waste of time to open and close a report. I just wasn't satisfied with that answer and called the Dept back and got someone slightly higher up the food chain.. explained what I wanted and asked if it was a problem. Was told it wasn't a problem and that the officer would call me back. 10 minutes later.. yep he called me back.. blazing mad.. yep, I got my report, which he opened and closed right on the spot.. and he was about as mad as could be. No I did not call the dept. back and report his behavior.. probably should have.

 

[ovrszd]

When I was 18 I had a 1969 Mustang coupe. I was driving down I-435 in Kansas City. A Mustang exactly like mine passed me hauling butt. About the time I was thinking how cool that was seeing a car just like mine I see several LEO cars coming behind me lights/sirens. They boxed me in and forced me to the shoulder. Guns drawn, literally yanked me out of the car onto the pavement and cuffed me. Stood me up against the rear fender and started questioning me. All the while the other LEOs were emptying my car. Removed the back seat, floormats and threw them onto the pavement, opened hood, opened trunk. Then one said "we must have the wrong car, there was an armed robbery". I said a car just like mine passed me earlier. One apologized for the mess and they sped away.

Uncalled for?? Most certainly....... Unless I was the perpetrator.

 

[ovrszd]

Yes.. I will expect them to do their job.

especially since if a civilian defends themself.. they invite a whole world of liability and investigation on themselves, even if 100% justified.

As would I.

Sadly you are correct.

 

[Sigarms]

The lights in my eyes? what was that? Having fun at the citizens expense? keeping me 100% blinded during the entire stop.. and asking me for stuff I can't do while blinded? really?

What was that? Being a prick

We (5 us in a van) got pulled over around Lewiston Idaho on a dirt road going back to our camp spot (kayaking). A State trooper pulls us over for not using our turn signal (on a dirt road, hanging a left onto another dirt road mind you).

Long story short, actually had a great conversation with the officer and he let us go. Other than he fishing on a turn signal on a dirt road, he seemed like a nice guy.

My only point is like any other work places, you have dicks and reasonable people you end up working with. Only problem is when you're the one pulled over and it's a dick with a badge wanting to show you what kind of authority he has. Again, not all cops are like this. Just you never know what you're going to get.

I did have one seat belt violation in a town (during work going to a job site) where I ended up having 3 cruisers behind me with their lights going. Talk about a slow day!

Yes, I know, need to wear the seat belt John Dillinger.

 

[Sigarms]

Rambling is a precursor to violence!

The only conclusion I can come to is heavy drug use at one time.

 

[Soundguy]

My problem usually already starts with the snarky 911 operator.

I've actually been OK with 911 operators.

Just so that Ovrszd doesn't think I'm hating on law enforcement all the time, here are some positive stories I'll relate.

Back after i had divorced my first wife, one day i get a knock on the door. Peep thru the door eyeglass... Some guy I don't know. rough looking. I retrieve my colt anaconda 44mag and have to folded in a newspaper.

Guy pushes in when I open the door. ( wow.. needed a door chain on that door.. my bad! )

Turns out he sold my ex-wife drugs and she wasn't paying and he wanted it from me. ( yes we had been long divorced and no I wasn't involved in any of the activity ). Anyway, he wouldn't leave.. so I called 911 and the operator was real nice and stayed on the phone with me while me and the drug user sat their in my living room waiting for a deputy to arrive .

In fact, a couple deputies and a detective arrived. They were all real nice. No one said anything about my revolver that I had sat on the floor when the first deputy arrived. All the nice LEO's escorted mr badguy outside and made him feel real uncomortable for quite a while. He had a rental car.. I recall them calling the car company and asking for records of how often they rented the car to the drug dealer. In the end.. The police were pretty nice.. told me I'd never see the guy again.. and they were correct. I ended up moving a couple years later ANYWAY.. but they were right.. he never came back. As a bonus.. the 911 operator even called my work for me to tell them I'd be late getting in. Made for a great story when i got to work!

Lets see.. did have one break in 30 years ago? I left for work, forgot my lunch, came back home to get it.. noticed doors open and some stuff moved in the house, retrieved a large handgun.. I remember it was a revolver.. don't know if it was my anaconda or not.. but immaterial.. anyway, peered in stepdaughters room that is normally closed, but door was open.. say a huge person trying to hide under bed! backed out of room, called cops!

Cops arrived.. 911 was still on the phone with me.. I told them front door is open.. please come on in, I'm the guy 5'4 white guy with long hair in the hallway holding a phone to my ear and a big silver revolver.

Police officer arrived, we made eye contact, he walked over, I hung up with 911 telling them officer arrived. told him what I saw asked him what to do. he said wait here. I still had my handgun aiming at the floor. he pulled out his peper spray and walked into the room sized the situation up, quietly put his peper spray up, unholstered his weapon, aimed at the bad guy and ordered him up then backed him out of the room.. we left the hallway to the living room.. he cuffed him and sat him on the couch. ( huge bad guy by the way.. looked like a football player.. ) Police officer actually told me to 'watch him' and that he was going back into the room. so the officer went back into the room and I stood there with my big revolver and the 6'7" 320# guy on the couch and what do you know.. a minute later the police officer comes back out with a 4'5" guy weighing about 95 #, and cuffed him. Said "he had been hiding in the closet... good thing you called this in and didn't enter the room"

Happy ending.. they left in the car cuffed. Only that one officer was there. we talked for a few minutes.. he mentioned I might want to get a security system if I could afford it. I agreed. he left. he was a pretty cool / nice guy.

Lets see.. another happy ending.. i may have mentioned this one before.. so I'll condense it. I was driving down the hiway, turned off to a side road.. motorcycle officer motions me to the side. speed on hiway was 55, 30 on side road. I actually pulled over to the side of the grass, 10' BEFORE the 30mph sign. I was mentally prepaired to point out that i ddidn't think the speed had changed YET. Never got that far. Officer walks over asks for license., I hand him my license and CCP. he asks if I'm armed, I respond yes, a sig p230 in the console. Everything changes then. He asks me how I like it, and mentions he was thinking of getting one. I said I loved mine, and then asked if he wanted to see it. He said sure, at which point I told him ok, im reaching for it, please don't shoot me.. pulled the gun / holster out of the console, pulled the gun out, removed the magazine, opened the action, and then handed the gun, then magazine then holster over and told the officer to check it out . he looked the gun over clipped the holster on,, manipulated the gun and magazine a bit, chambered a round, removed mag, cleared the chamber relaoded the loose round to the mag, handed it back to me and I put it right back in the console. Said he liked it and that did it, he was getting one. A that point he said, oh by the way, I;m not writing you a ticket. He gave me a warning and I left. At that point I didn't argue the warning even though i was before the stop sign.

Last one. This one.. I may have deserved a ticket.. but I feel the officer was partially responsible. Happy ending though.. and looking at it now.. it must have looked pretty darn funny to any bystanders watching.

I was on north US 27 it was late.. probably late enough for headlamps but not dark.
I was in the right lane, checked the rear view and side view mirrors to do a change of lanes to the left lane. All was clear, there was a dark car WAY back in the left lane. I changed lanes. heck.. even signaled!

Ok.. turns out dark car was a state trooper.. no headlamps.. but again.. it was right at dusk.. and maybee he didn't need them. anyway.. turns out he was flying low and maybee doing 80-90mph.. because when i looked back and he was real far away.. a couple seconds later he was apparently REAL close, and when i changed lanes he had to do essentially a 'brown alert / stand on the brakes' panic stop that took a few thousand miles use off his brake pads I guess. Lights went on and I pulled over into a Pinch-A-Penny parking lot ( that's how long ago this was ).

Police officer stormed over and said. 'get out of the car'
I got out and he walked me about 10' away from the car. ( I had my first wife and stepdaughter in the car ).

At that point he started chewing me up one side and down the other. He was using words i wasn't even sure what they were... That officer took his hat off and threw it on the pavement while he was chewing me out. He called me every name in the book.. questioned my heritage and gave me his opinion of my driving skills. I was pretty much in awe / shock and stood there mouth closed, arms down at my side, eyes big, and just let him work thru it. After about what was only really 2 minutes of this, he grabbed his hat told me I could go and then walked back to his car and drove off. At the time I was a bit shocked.. but now i can laugh at it.