Help Setting Up A MIG Welder, or Selecting A New One,,,

[yomax4]

So, do I get better arc characteristics if I use the Miller Trailblazer for power and use the little suitcase feeder to just feed the wire?

I guess I am asking if the Trailblazer and feeder is better than a Millermatic 252?

I do love using the Trailblazer compared to a low cost DC transformer welder.

I have never used an engine driven MIG,,,

The only down side to using the engine drive and voltage sensing feeder is listening to it run all the time.

 

[BukitCase]

I have to agree that if you have a stick welder for bigger stuff AND want more portability, the newer MM211 is a good choice - Before I got the 252 I had the original transformer based mm211, MUCH heavier than the newer MM211 - I doubt I will EVER sell the 252 while I'm still BREATHING, but I have a few places I need to weld that are either outside, or just without the power required for the 252; so I bought a new MM211 a few months ago - not seeing a noticeable difference in arc from the MM252; also, Miller addressed every shortcoming of the earlier MM211 - weight is less than half, autoset is MUCH more flexible (manual is still there, which I tend to use), fan is now "on demand" instead of always on, the inverter can handle "dirtier" power inputs and 50 OR 60 hZ - my only complaint is that you have to buy a SEPARATE 15' gun if you want one, they will NOT let you "trade up" for a little more $$$...

I built a "4-way movable" cart for it - it can move around on smooth floors using 2 13" tires and 2 5" swivel casters, or I can tip it back on JUST the 13" tires and move it like a hand truck (shorter trips on gravel, etc) or I can flip its "trailer tongue" down and TOW it with my ZTR (the smaller casters retract for this), or (finally) its "roll cage" has a 2-way adjustable "picking eye" so it can be balanced to hang straight regardless of things like changing spool weight/bottle weight - with that I can either pick it with the backhoe or a crane and set it on a trailer or pickup bed...

The "roll cage" is also designed to protect the gauges, as well as support a standard "barbeque cover" during periods of non-use - here's what it looks like... Steve

 

[MatHaas]

I have to agree that if you have a stick welder for bigger stuff AND want more portability, the newer MM211 is a good choice - Before I got the 252 I had the original transformer based mm211, MUCH heavier than the newer MM211 - I doubt I will EVER sell the 252 while I'm still BREATHING, but I have a few places I need to weld that are either outside, or just without the power required for the 252; so I bought a new MM211 a few months ago - not seeing a noticeable difference in arc from the MM252; also, Miller addressed every shortcoming of the earlier MM211 - weight is less than half, autoset is MUCH more flexible (manual is still there, which I tend to use), fan is now "on demand" instead of always on, the inverter can handle "dirtier" power inputs and 50 OR 60 hZ - my only complaint is that you have to buy a SEPARATE 15' gun if you want one, they will NOT let you "trade up" for a little more $$$...

I built a "4-way movable" cart for it - it can move around on smooth floors using 2 13" tires and 2 5" swivel casters, or I can tip it back on JUST the 13" tires and move it like a hand truck (shorter trips on gravel, etc) or I can flip its "trailer tongue" down and TOW it with my ZTR (the smaller casters retract for this), or (finally) its "roll cage" has a 2-way adjustable "picking eye" so it can be balanced to hang straight regardless of things like changing spool weight/bottle weight - with that I can either pick it with the backhoe or a crane and set it on a trailer or pickup bed...

The "roll cage" is also designed to protect the gauges, as well as support a standard "barbeque cover" during periods of non-use - here's what it looks like... Steve

Wow, what a nice set up! Great work on that cart/wagon :thumbsup:

Good feedback too. Glad you're happy with it.
I use pillow cases to cover all of my welders and plasma cutter haha. I just cut down the long edge and slide it over the front. Keeps all of the dust off of the machine and dust out of the internals when it's not in use.

The new machine is definitely an improved version over the unit i have.

 

[Big Barn]

I built a "4-way movable" cart for it - it can move around on smooth floors using 2 13" tires and 2 5" swivel casters, or I can tip it back on JUST the 13" tires and move it like a hand truck (shorter trips on gravel, etc) or I can flip its "trailer tongue" down and TOW it with my ZTR (the smaller casters retract for this), or (finally) its "roll cage" has a 2-way adjustable "picking eye" so it can be balanced to hang straight regardless of things like changing spool weight/bottle weight - with that I can either pick it with the backhoe or a crane and set it on a trailer or pickup bed...

The "roll cage" is also designed to protect the gauges, as well as support a standard "barbeque cover" during periods of non-use - here's what it looks like... Steve

I've been known to be unreasonably critical but I REALLY like that cart.

 

[BukitCase]

Thanks guys; it probably woulda taken me HALF as long, if I'd started from scratch instead of tryin' to "repurpose" this leftover from an old safety rail :laughing:



Although I'm pretty sure it would've taken a whole different direction WITHOUT that "kick starter " ...Steve

 

[MatHaas]

Haha. I frequently use left over or unused material and turn it to something new. Helps cut down on the junk I pile up. Lol. Time consuming for sure!

 

[timswi]

Not to hijack, but looking to replace my very old 110v mig. Looking at the Hobart Handler 140. Any thoughts on that model as opposed to the similar Miller or Lincoln?

I mostly do autobody type stuff with the occasional heavy weld <=1/4".

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Not to hijack, but looking to replace my very old 110v mig. Looking at the Hobart Handler 140. Any thoughts on that model as opposed to the similar Miller or Lincoln?

I mostly do autobody type stuff with the occasional heavy weld <=1/4".

In my opinion, those are good little machines for what you describe.

 

[BukitCase]

The miller 141 is about $215 more than the hobart, but if I were gonna use it for body work I'd spend that in a heart beat - all the smaller millers now use their heavier duty drives, which can run a 15' gun - Hobart says NOTHING about a longer gun (both COME with a 10') - I've NEVER been a fan of tapped or switched controls; the Hobart still has only 5 choices for voltage control, miller is infinitely adjustable. MUCH easier to dial in the sweet spot for ANYTHING you're welding - with thinner metals it's even MORE useful.

I'm sure you'll get other opinions, and if cost is a bigger factor than flexibility the Hobart beats a lot of "wannabe" machines; you asked for opinions, and we ALL know what THOSE are like :laughing: ...Steve

(Sorry Dave, not my fault you snuck that in while I wuz typing - did I mention I'm a picky SOB??!?

 

[timswi]

The miller 141 is about $215 more than the hobart, but if I were gonna use it for body work I'd spend that in a heart beat - all the smaller millers now use their heavier duty drives, which can run a 15' gun - Hobart says NOTHING about a longer gun (both COME with a 10') - I've NEVER been a fan of tapped or switched controls; the Hobart still has only 5 choices for voltage control, miller is infinitely adjustable. MUCH easier to dial in the sweet spot for ANYTHING you're welding - with thinner metals it's even MORE useful.

I'm sure you'll get other opinions, and if cost is a bigger factor than flexibility the Hobart beats a lot of "wannabe" machines; you asked for opinions, and we ALL know what THOSE are like :laughing: ...Steve

(Sorry Dave, not my fault you snuck that in while I wuz typing - did I mention I'm a picky SOB??!?

Thanks guys..Budget isn't a major concern, just don't want to overpay for no reason. Agree on the detents, my current one is infinite. That may take some getting used to.

 

[dragoneggs]

I've been really happy with my 252, I've only run about 100# of .035 hard wire thru it so far, but I've welded everything from 16 ga. to 3/4 plate with it, same wire - I haven't done aluminum with it so far, got a 30A spool gun with it and I usually keep a 2# spool of .023 hard wire in that if I need REALLY light stuff glued together - couple pics, .120" wall square tube, plug welds on mower deck, grab hook on 2"x.250 wall tube, and 3/4" FB... Steve

Crap, I need more practice... on the thin stuff. I struggle mightily with anything around 14g or less. Love my MM211 transformer model running only .030 but if I would have procrastinated a couple more years I could have had the 211 inverter model. Maybe I need another one for .023... yep I'm lazy.

Keep telling myself that a TIG machine is the answer. I haven't told my wife yet though.

 

[BukitCase]

Miller tends to make recommendations based on FILET welds - my "fix" for that, on both my previous transformer mm211 AND the newer mm211, is that IF I use autoset at all, I'll "tell it" I'm welding about 1 gauge (like 16 ga. instead of the (real) 14 ga.) - Same on my mm252; I use one of those "slide rule" calculators Miller sells, and my starting point for 14 ga. will be to set it like I was welding 16 ga., that's usually real close.

Also, the lighter the gauge the more attention I pay to travel speed; I NEVER "drag" hard wire, and ALWAYS stay right at the front of (or a teeny bit ahead of) the puddle, so I KNOW I'm getting penetration and not just piling crap on top of crap.

All of the roof framing (24' square) over my 20' container is .120 wall 2" square tube welded that way; we just had winds a few days ago that were around 70 mph, and that roof and all the fiberglass is still right where I put it - so I'm thinkin' that whatever I'm doing must be OK :thumbsup: - probably 30% of that job was done in place with the spoogun (needed the reach) - uphand, overhead, whatever; only had to grind out a couple "birdy-num-nums", and most of the "in place" stuff was done under a weld blanket (too windy)

I've known some weldors that, instead of turning it down, crank it 'WAY up and go like a scalded cat - I worked with one guy back in the '80's that'd crank a 250 class wire machine up to where you'd normally run for 3/8" steel, and weld 16 gauge - he'd weld a 4 foot long OUTSIDE corner seam in about 2-3 SECONDS - a few of the other welders in that shop kept asking him how he did it, and he'd NEVER tell :laughing: Personally I doubt I could stay on the seam moving that fast, then OR now

To my mind, if you don't improve EACH time you weld you're not doing it enough - I know my first welds after a week or more break are NOT as nice as the last ones - they're still plenty strong, but not quite as "pretty" as the later ones in any given session -

Well, supper's over; back to the shop - some of my fit up on the corner bracing on my modded HF crane are so weird I had to break out the mill to get the angles right - needed to "let in" 2" tube into 4" channel @ 45 degrees, bit tricky to get right with a side grinder



Well, back to the same ol' grind (er, I meant "mill") :laughing: ...Steve

Oh, and you DO need a TIG - maybe just get the new 215, still light weight and inverter, get wire tig AND stick (evil grin emoji goes here :=))

 

[Industrial Toys]

I got my best friend a Miller 250 for use at their shop. He says, he can weld perfectly with it. Then got him a Lincoln 250 for his house. Today, he says he can't weld worth crap. Looks like a child did it he says. He is trying to weld 1/4" mild steel. Says it stops and starts, and is bumpy. Also welding with the shop door open on a windy day.

I think he is too fixated on the Digital displays to correspond with the Miller at work. I told him to put electrical tape over the displays and just crank it. Or almost, and adjust movement accordingly. He won't burn through 1/4".

Curious if anyone can provide input on using a mig that is often used in a heated shop, vs one that is seldom used in an unheated (Canadian) shop. I know friends that have multiple welders mostly with separate feeders in an unheated shop and they curse humid days for feeding issues.

 

[BukitCase]

I can't help with the cold much, where I live I tend to ***** if the temp gets much below 10C/50F - but knowing myself, I'd probably build some kind of plywood "garage", insulate it and keep the welder in that (with a light bulb or two) except when actually welding - it DOES get fairly humid in my area and I've thought about maybe finding room INSIDE the MM252's spool area for a light bulb and leaving THAT plugged in all winter - so far I haven't needed it tho...

"welding with the shop door open on a windy day. "

That ALONE will cause the problems he reported; I do probably 30% of my welding in a "semi-enclosed" area - fiberglass roof but only tarps and plywood sides, sometimes a bit drafty when winds are up (as in, most of the winter) - my "fix" for that: I usually hang a 3-4 foot piece of toilet paper somewhere close to where I'm welding (but NOT close enough to catch fire ) - if the "TP" isn't moving, I keep gas @ 20 CFH - if it's "gently waving", I'll crank gas up to 25. Anything more than "gently waving", and I either take a break or....

I have 3 of those HF "under-hoist safety stands" that go from about 5 to 8 feet tall; those, a few pieces of 1" conduit across the tops of the stands and 3 6'x8' welding blankets (grommeted) and I can block enough breeze out NOT to make guaranteed bird crap -

I'm so addicted to MIG now that I've maybe used my stick welder 3-4 times in the last 5 YEARS - but if your friend can't (or won't) close the shop door, maybe he should change to "stick on a spool", reverse his polarity, and get used to chipping slag? Just a thought... Steve

 

[MatHaas]

Crap, I need more practice... on the thin stuff. I struggle mightily with anything around 14g or less. Love my MM211 transformer model running only .030 but if I would have procrastinated a couple more years I could have had the 211 inverter model. Maybe I need another one for .023... yep I'm lazy.

Keep telling myself that a TIG machine is the answer. I haven't told my wife yet though.

Get yourself a TIG; you'll never regret it. Just make sure you spend the money once and buy the real deal. My Dynasty200dx is the best investment I ever made. Used it today on 14ga.


If you're using the mm211; when I weld thin stuff I love the auto set feature. I tend to pulse the trigger (maybe twice a second) when I'm on crazy thin stuff. Penetration is never an issue on thin stuff obviously, and if you pulse fast enough, with proper heat control, you get a beautiful wetted bead. I slow my pulsing if it gets too hot. Give it a whirl.

 

[MatHaas]

I got my best friend a Miller 250 for use at their shop. He says, he can weld perfectly with it. Then got him a Lincoln 250 for his house. Today, he says he can't weld worth crap. Looks like a child did it he says. He is trying to weld 1/4" mild steel. Says it stops and starts, and is bumpy. Also welding with the shop door open on a windy day.

I think he is too fixated on the Digital displays to correspond with the Miller at work. I told him to put electrical tape over the displays and just crank it. Or almost, and adjust movement accordingly. He won't burn through 1/4".

Curious if anyone can provide input on using a mig that is often used in a heated shop, vs one that is seldom used in an unheated (Canadian) shop. I know friends that have multiple welders mostly with separate feeders in an unheated shop and they curse humid days for feeding issues.

Just sounds like poor voltage and wire speed to me. Unless he's used it before and welded perfect. Check/confirm adequate gas flow too. I weld outside all of the time even when it's windy; never have issues with MIG. Most I've ever done is used a cardboard box the block the side the wind is coming from if I'm TIGing aluminum. Inside a shop, even with the door open... can't see the wind being bad enough to mess him up on MIG. But I'm sure it's "possible".

I also can't say I notice a difference MIG welding in 10*F vs 100*F personally, as far as weld quality or machine performance goes..

 

[Industrial Toys]

He claims he found a fly stuck in the nozzle. Not sure I believe that. He's funny that way.

Recently I was getting a lot of black soot. I had cranked up the gas to compensate for welding in a doorway. Seeing the soot, I thought that the soot was from not enough gas. Anyway, friends clued me in, to turn the gas down.

A friend recently TIG welded a bung onto a aluminum radiator for me. I was totally shocked as to how long that process takes. Does steel TIG take as long?

 

[MatHaas]

A friend recently TIG welded a bung onto a aluminum radiator for me. I was totally shocked as to how long that process takes. Does steel TIG take as long?

It depends on the material thickness, welders experience, etc.

Aluminum is high maintenance. A dirty weld is worthless. As long as it's bare, a quick stainless wire brushing and wiping with acetone should do the trick.

Experienced guys will run hotter and quicker if you do it for a living. No one is going to pay you for being a slow poke. Less experienced guys or those who only doing it intermittently tend to use less heat and move slower. It's preference and expertise, but aluminum is soft and burns up quickly if you're inexperienced and run too hot. ZERO gap will also speed up the process. Any gap can cause the edge of one of the base materials to burn up quicker if you're not experience and know where to focus your arc.

In general, yes, TIG is always way slower. Unless you're doing production TIG all day, most aren't experience enough to just set it hot and run fast. Plus TIG requires much more metal prep. And like I said, aluminum tends to take even longer. Gotta let the whole piece slowly and evenly heat, let the oxide layer burn off and puddle to form. Steel, you should start traveling within 1-2 sec of arc strike. From my experience.

Welding an -AN fitting on an aluminum rad, should take less than 5 min total for someone who does it regularly, including all prep. The weld itself should take under a minute total; you just need to be familiar with hear input, material thickness, and have a good position.

 

[CADplans]

Crap, I need more practice... on the thin stuff. I struggle mightily with anything around 14g or less.
Keep telling myself that a TIG machine is the answer. I haven't told my wife yet though.

Have you tried cheating?? for thin stuff,, I simply cheat,,
Clamp a piece of copper under the part to be welded,, the part instantly acts like it is 4 times as thick,,

This is stick welding, imagine how nice MIG would be,,,

I can stick weld a muffler if I can get copper behind the spot to be welded,
The copper can be real thin, like 0.030 inch,, thin works well because it is easy to bend.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

A friend recently TIG welded a bung onto a aluminum radiator for me. I was totally shocked as to how long that process takes. Does steel TIG take as long?

Depends how many amps you use and how fast your filler hand is at feeding wire through your fingers

I'm impatient and like to see how fast I can tig - always looking for "tig at mig speed"