Buying Advice Should I tweak my Kubota package purchase a bit ? seeking opinions re now or later ?

[scaredychicken]

This post just keeps getting better. Again, thank you all for the responses. I've still got some time to fine tune the purchase (5-6 weeks) but it is becoming clearer, and no doubt it will be decided in part on budget. My downpayment is growing week by week.

the 3rd function valve seems to make sense, for future planning
the spacers also make sense now

I know that this machine will take some getting used to, and it partly scares me ... so that is good. The learning curve will be steep (esp re backhoe) but I'm sensible enough to know that if there are tasks that (ultimately) are better suited for someone else to do, then I will observe rather than do (the backhoe may be one such matter), however, the tasks that it will do for me still make sense.

The current ride on mower that I have is quickly becoming too much of a challenge for me (especially getting off of it), so the MMM will be a real blessing.

I had a look around the property yesterday, and I saw a lot of potential for that tractor --- I think that the grapple will be an essential item at some point, and the bucket teeth and hooks will be put to use as I trail blaze and level out some areas (some digging, dirt movement required) of the property.

an auger may not be the biggest or best on a small tractor - however, if it can even do part of the fencing, it will have paid for itself 5x over.

The box blade will have immediate benefits

Paul2 - you've given me a lot to chew on, especially the rear pallet forks. The wood chipper is probably just a thought for the distant future. I can and do burns, but the chipper seems mor convenient (and dangerous). Here the fire ban is on from about late March to early November - so the approved burn times are limited, for most years. The chipper would assist in the clean-ups and after the winter tree-falls are noticed, but may not be realistic for me. (at least not right now).

great feedback and responses, as always

 

[PaulL2]

Lazy rainy Saturday night here with a beer, plenty of time to share my opinions on the world.

My chipper is actually my most used implement (ignoring the FEL and mower - which aren't really implements as such), and there is a lot of pleasure in doing the pruning and feeding it straight into the chipper, ending up with a tidy pile of mulch that you can use and no mess left behind. I cut everything I can for firewood then smaller stuff for kindling, so what I feed into the chipper isn't overly large. It's a fair bit of work though, and I don't have a big property - if you have any significant volume you won't have time to chip it all. I always break a sweat doing it, and it rattles and bangs around, it grabs branches out of your hands, and sometimes bangs your hands against the sides. If you wear gloves there's danger of them snagging and pulling you in. And then that one time I thought I could clear (another) blockage without stopping it, and it led to a broken finger (with x-ray to prove it), big cut on the tip that still hasn't healed properly (lump), and a finger nail that is still black 3 months later, couldn't type for 3 weeks, a bunch of annoying stuff like doing up shirt buttons I couldn't do. And a slight butt clenching every time I think about it, and how close that was to the whole end of the finger being gone.

If you can't burn for a decent portion of the year, have the strength and dexterity to feed the thing, and don't want your burn piles to just sit around till you can next burn, then by all means get a chipper. They're expensive in NZ so I bought mine direct from China, it's a direct ripoff of a Wallenstein BX-25, I paid over the money and it just turned up in the shipping. Not sure what prices are like in the US, but suspect you'd get a second hand one for not too much, and if it didn't work out you'd on-sell it for about what you originally paid. But as you say, doesn't have to be a today decision, the BX has enough power to drive a small chipper just fine.

I love my MMM, it has so much more power than the rideon I replaced, and it's much heavier duty - it's more tolerant when I mow the roadside or other rough terrain. And it mows about twice as fast as my rideon did. I don't take the FEL off when I mow and I should, one day I'll drive into the house and then it'll take me days to repair - and all the time I saved not taking it off will come back in one lump.

One big learning with a tractor is that this is actually a real tractor. It's quite powerful given the gearing and weight, and you have to be careful with it. Anything you touch (gates, fences, edge of the house, trees) will break. The FEL sticks out further than you think, and the plastic chute on the MMM grabs things on the way past. I bumped one of my gates and now have pins that I can't straighten that are supposed to hold the gate open. And they're not as stable as you'd think, I often have one or other wheel off the ground - too much weight in the FEL, too much weight on the back, a bit of weight on it up too high and go round a corner quickly on flat ground. Again, most of that can be solved by being careful and going slow, but spacers and ballasting would avoid that need to think so much. For me it'd make the tractor impractical around the house, but for you it may be different.

For me with a relatively small property I thought it was marginal to get a BX - people keep asking me "oh, do you have a farm" and I have to say no, I just wanted a tractor. But it's amazing how much time I spend on it doing things that I otherwise might not have done at all - the FEL is a powered wheel barrow, I lift and move stuff that would otherwise stay where it was, I use the FEL to turn over my mulch pile that would otherwise not mulch properly, I mulch my tree prunings that would otherwise sit in a pile and one day go to the tip or green waste, it mows way faster than my old ride on, and I spend a bit of time helping my elderly neighbours with moving or grading or pulling stuff - which makes everyone happy. Given I use it every weekend, I now feel justified in getting a newer one with a few more options (mine was a bit beat up when I bought it cheap second hand).

Some other thoughts on implements. My full list is:

• FEL - definitely worth it
• mower (mid mount) - definitely worth it
• chipper - I wouldn't be without it, but that's mostly because I can't burn (although arguably burning isn't so good for the environment anyway)
• 3ph pallet forks - were inexpensive and therefore totally worth it, I use them a lot, they lift a bit more than FEL forks would. Main thing is they don't lift high enough to get things off a truck - but there's a low retaining wall at the neighbours I can get up on to add height. And most things I'd lift off a truck are too heavy for the BX to lift anyway - like a pallet of pavers, or a pallet of plywood or pretty much anything I might lift other than stuff I stacked myself in BX sized loads
• land rake. Waste of time, never really managed to get it to do anything useful, I got it when laying turf / levelling lawn and got some brief use there, but ended up hand raking most of it
• levelling bar (I think called a land plane in the US) - very useful in laying lawn, got it from neighbour free - it's really just a couple railway irons welded to an old set of pallet forks
• a scoop for the back - again free from a neighbour from before they invented FELs, and surprisingly useful to have a load of dirt on back and load of dirt in FEL at same time
• tow hitch for the 3ph - very useful - back up to a trailer, lift the 3ph and you're off. Great for the boat. Didn't see this mentioned in your list - they're cheap and easy enough to get later. If you put a ball on the BX frame it's too low really to tow a proper trailer - the trailer hitch drags on everything
• a chain (a snig chain I think?) has a loop one end and hook the other, and hooks onto itself. Great for lifting and pulling logs and the like, I just wrap it round the bucket, it'd be much better to have a centrally mounted hook or two on the bucket - wouldn't damage the paint, and wouldn't leave me worried it'd suddenly unroll somehow

 

[m1garand762]

unless you need to finance your implements, you can get better quality from Everything Attachments, and usually a better price for the quality. EATRAVIS post on here and various facebook pages quite frequntly. I have bought from him in the past and will continue to in the future

 

[check]

The pallet forks issue is an interesting one. Paul2 got rear pallet forks, and discusses the advantages and disadvantages. On the other hand, Jery Dunn has front pallet forks that have a quick attach so you can take your front bucket off and put the pallet forks on (easily).

So, you have to think about whether you're going to need your FEL while using (rear) pallet forks, or can you leave it off while using the front pallet forks. And as I said before, stay away from the Kubota OEM pallet fork set up, because it is way, way too heavy (although they can apparently mount front or rear interchangeably - see their video).

Weight on the FEL arms is of course your enemy, because the FEL capacity at the pins is only 745 lbs. This is why Jery Dunn's forks are best - they are tough and do not weigh too much.

Yet another (cheap) option is to get the bxpanded.com forks, which hook right on to the front of the FEL. This limits the lift capacity, but they are FAST to mount and dismount, and they will also fit when you have the bxpanded.com Piranha tooth bar (which I would strongly recommend.)

More stuff to think about. (I am so jealous - I only have the BX25!)

 

[CMV]

I believe this to be a false statement. If a dealer is telling you this, find a different dealer. You are being played.

Believe what you want, but you can get quotes from multiple dealers of different lines and compare cash price vs 0% financed selling prices and do the math. Not saying every single brand's finance arm works this way, but many do. You in effect simply buy down the loan.

 

[check]

Absolutely. Here in Ontario, any Kubota dealer will happily give you both the cash and the 0% financed price, so you can easily calculate your "real costs of financing" rate - usually 4% to 5%. This is why I am so shocked when every once in a while someone reports a dealer quoting the same price cash or 0% financed.

 

[scaredychicken]

there is also a $275 Cdn financing fee that is added in. My dealer indicated that it was being waived in my quote though. I'm getting a headache though in trying to figure out what the actual base rate is for the T - L - B package, as 3 different / current flyers have 3 different printed prices, and most are saying with 10 % down OAC. I'm okay with that. I am also aware that DEALER MAY SELL FOR LESS than the msrp (noted in the fine print on flyers)

here is what I have seen in the current CANADIAN flyers pricing the BX23S tractor - loader - backhoe package (sale on until May 31, 2018)

$ 24,514 standard flyer

$ 24,290 Bring Back Spring flyer

$ 24,866 in another flyer - this price also quoted by a dealer in Alberta

$ 24,890 the quote that I was given by my local dealer ( that is actually the best price when you consider that I requested a step, they are putting on an oversized reverse pedal, and the canopy ($600 retail - I believe that this had the $300 implement bonus) are all at "no charge", AND he did beat all of the flyer prices on everything else that I wanted in the quote. I like this guy and the dealership, certainly they want to sell me a tractor, but they want to make it work for me. (I do know a LOT of people, and so far, the W-O-M advertising that they will get from me is considerable)

the drive on MMM was featured in the implements flyer, but the regular MMM was the indicated price in that flyer ... tricky, about $1000 difference / additional for the drive over mower.

 

[Tractor Dell]

$ 24,890 the quote that I was given by my local dealer ( that is actually the best price when you consider that I requested a step, they are putting on an oversized reverse pedal, and the canopy ($600 retail - I believe that this had the $300 implement bonus) are all at "no charge", AND he did beat all of the flyer prices on everything else that I wanted in the quote. I like this guy and the dealership, certainly they want to sell me a tractor, but they want to make it work for me. (I do know a LOT of people, and so far, the W-O-M advertising that they will get from me is considerable)

In my opinion, the is the part that matters. The dealer is taking care of you, and is willing to work with you. Even if it costs you a few dollars more, you are getting great personal attention. This will come in handy if somewhere down the road, you have an issue with the tractor.

 

[PaulL2]

Realistically, your dealer is your dealer and they sound good. What other people might give you, or what's written on flyers somewhere, is immaterial. The deal seems reasonable, looking at other prices elsewhere will just make you unhappy because they're not actually available to you. And as you say, they're not comparable anyway because there are different inclusions - the stuff your dealer is throwing in seems quite valuable.

On the financing deal, you have the money available to buy it up front or you don't. If you have the money to pay cash up front, then do that. If you don't, then you need to finance, so it's really not that relevant whether there's a financing charge embedded or not (logically there must be, but everyone thinks differently about these things).

On the MMM, I've never been that impressed by what I've read about the BX drive over deck. My gut tells me that the drive shaft engagement will probably not work reliably over time, and I've never found it that hard to get the mower out from underneath (so the actual drive over bit wouldn't be worth that much to me). I still haven't quite worked out what's left on the tractor for the quick attach mechanism when the mower is removed - seems to me it leaves a bit of junk hanging around that might be annoying - but again I've never seen one in the flesh. To summarise all that - for me I'm not sure it's worth $1,000 for the drive over. For you, I'm still wondering if you have the dexterity to attach the drive shaft - all the rest of it you can do without any great difficulty I would imagine. And you did say your upper body was fine - and it's mostly about lying on the ground and reaching under with two hands - one to push it on and one to pull the locking collar back. If you can do that, then I'd just get the standard mower.

 

[Bosifus]

I second the above on the MMM deck. I have real severe rheumatoid arthritis and my hands are a big mess with crooked fingers and little dexterity, its ridiculous and even I can do it but if you don't have a smooth concrete floor the drive over unit may be the ticket. The shaft is not a big deal so far to get hooked up. Just takes a little finagling. I think the key with that is to keep it lubed up real well. It's easy enough I mow with it and take it back off afterward.

One thing to consider with the backhoe is that if you plan to switch this out between 3 point implements often its a bit more of a PITA to completely disconnect all the 3 point stuff and mount up the backhoe and takes a bit of time. I've only done it once so far for my tiller and then back to the hoe so I'm sure it will get quicker but its a bit of a challenge when your hands don't function well. Not impossible by any means just takes a bit longer I think. Thankfully, that system for hooking up the backhoe is a breeze. Just have to pay real attention to the hydro lines so as not to pinch them.

I really thought a lot about the usefulness of that backhoe until I used it to dig some holes for some posts in the garden and decided it was well worth the money. A post hole digger would work well also and cost a bit less but I have several fighting positions to dig around the neighborhood and that hoe is going to be the ticket!
Just kidding, but I do have several projects that digging with a hoe versus wielding a shovel and paying for it for days will be money well spent.

I wish I'd have bought a tractor a decade ago when I bought and built this place. Live and learn I guess.