LS or Massey

[paulfun9]

I know things change sometimes yearly but last time out tractor shopping the LS would have been my choice. Now remember I haven’t stepped on a lot to look at new in awhile and am not current on the new offerings.

 

[uphere]

Have owned three LS tractors (latest being a 4140) over the years and have never had any "major" issues. To me, pick the colour you like and go for it ... depending on what you are doing with it, there isn't enough of a variation in the capabilities of the new stuff to worry about it. They are all pretty good.

 

[rScotty]

Hey guys,
I did some tractor shopping yesterday and looked at the Massey Ferguson 1735M and 1740M for the first time.
I got a price on the 1735M cab with loaded tires for $31,500. I got a price on the 1740M Deluxe cab loaded tires for $36,500. What a beautiful cab set up and air ride seat.
I really liked these two tractors. One of my concerns is the FEL lift capacity 19.6" forward of pins is only 1300lbs and breakout force of 2190lbs, does this seem low to you guys? I can get an LS XR4145HC for about $31,500 with a lift capacity of 2700lbs at pins and breakout force of 3800lbs. I know those are different frame size tractors but the LS XR3135 has higher numbers than those two Masseys. It seems like the fit and finish of the Massey's were better, they just felt better but I like the LS also.

Any opinions between the two? If the lift capacity of the Massey's were figured out at the pins, would it be much higher?

Thanks

It's smart of you to question the specs. Tractor specs are all over the place. They are an advertising tool and while they do seem to have some relationship to reality - at least enough to use as an arguing point - finding just what that relationship is can be maddeningly difficult. There are no standards of measurement, no governing body, no penalties.

Tractor specsmanship has always been a problem in the tractor industry. The history of the problem goes back to the start of tractors temselves about 1920. rt. It got so bad in farm tractors that Nebraska passed a law that created a tractor testing program at the University of Nebraska, where for the past 90+ years they test tractors and publish their findings. That way farmers and others can have a reliable base of comparison.
But it is mostly bigger farm tractors - although I don't think it has to be. They've tested a lot of equipment over the years. It does cost the the manufacturer to do the testing, it's optional, and who want's to be first in line?? Not all manufacturers do so, and not on all models. Probably wisely so.
That tractor testing program is heavy in large farm tractors....not in commercial or compacts...but it still makes interesting reading.
Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory | Nebraska

Loader specs are an excellent example of this advertising specsmanship. At best, there is a kind of loose set of industry standards.

Yes, it makes a big difference whether lift capacity is measured at the pins or at some distance from the pins. The farther out you go, the less the lift. There are ways to make that measurement fair, but not one single manufacturer uses it.
For example, the distance itself from pins - or not - isn't done to any standard and some specs include the weight of the bucket and loader itself while others do not.

Most manufacturers offer a range of buckets which vary in weight and in the distance from pin to the cutting edge - that is the distance which has the largest control on breakout force, and often times variations in that distance in the manufacturer's own buckets offered is not even mentioned.

An even larger effect that is not always mentioned is just where on the lift cycle is the lift measured? Lift varies by a lot depending whether it is measured at the ground or waist level or some higher point. And it's a non-linear variation. The shape of the curve of the non-linear variation can be very much different from one loader to the next depending on the geometry of the loader itself.
I'll include an attachement showing how that varies below..

So lift positon can also be a huge difference - but it still doesn't tell you how weight affects steering or stability - or even if that much weight makes the back wheels get light.

Lift is also affected by how the hydraulic fluid pressure is specified - after all, pressure varies with rpm, and the high pressure cutoff itself may be set anywhere within a range. Just how long it takes to lift a maximum heavy load can be a big surprise as well. You can find yourself sitting there with the throttle wide open while the bucket slowly inches up from the ground to some usable level.

It comes down to this: If you want to know how a loader handles a certain weight, put that load on it at the dealer and drive it around. Be sure to do this on a bit of a side slope as well to test stability. There is really no other way.

If you want to use the manufacturer's specs, take them at the pins only, take them with a large grain of salt, and be sure to reduce the numbers by at least 25 to 30% at the ground-to-waist level to have some chance that the numbers are even in the ball park. DO NOT base your decision on five hundred pounds of difference when you are comparing several thousands of pounds.

And if lift capacity is that important to you, both try it at the dealer and be sure that required number is included in the sales contract. Whatever the actual lift turns out to be, it will also vary between individual tractors so allow for some variation.
rScotty

 

[SDT]

I looked at Massey a year ago and really liked the cab. Downside is Massey is owned by Agco and at least back then they did not have the best reputation for customer service, especially with new tier 4 diesel engines, plus the model that I was interested in was made in China. Ended up going Kioti - it was about 8K less expensive and the loader lifted quite a bit more and I often use the tractor as a fork lift. Have almost 150 hours on the Kioti now and no problems other than a pinched O ring in the added third remote (took ten minutes to fix). A year down the road and I would do the same thing again.

Bingo, Mickey.

I made the mistake of buying two new MF tractors, one in 2007, the other in 2013.

Had repetitive problems with both and neither MF/AGCO nor their dealers treated me well.

Both are now gone and I will never have anything to do with MF/AGCO again.

This is the only time in my life where I actually ejected someone from my property.

Never again.

SDT

 

[chim]

The tasks that you will be doing need to be considered when looking at loader capacity. My current tractor can lift 1131# at the pins. It has lifted everything I've need to lift. It could have used more oomph when going to scoop a load of crushed stone from a pile. The tractor that's (hopefully) coming Thursday will lift 2489# at the pins. I wasn't really looking for that much added capacity, but I fell in love.

 

[Jchonline]

The tasks that you will be doing need to be considered when looking at loader capacity. My current tractor can lift 1131# at the pins. It has lifted everything I've need to lift. It could have used more oomph when going to scoop a load of crushed stone from a pile. The tractor that's (hopefully) coming Thursday will lift 2489# at the pins. I wasn't really looking for that much added capacity, but I fell in love.

Oh now you will have to share more about the new machine!

 

[chim]

Oh now you will have to share more about the new machine!

Coming later this week. L4240 with just under 1,000 hours on the clock. The desire was to find something with A/C and a few more horses than the L3200 and preferably without the "earth friendly" Final Tier IV stuff. Was watching for a 38-ish HP tractor so there would be enough power to run the A/C and a 90" RFM.

Kubotas have always been good to me, but I looked at a used Kioti a few weeks back and drove a couple new 38HP Mahindras last week. Then this came along. I can't see anything on it that looks used, and it isn't a repaint / restore job. Using the serial number another dealer confirmed the seller's story that the hydro pump, one of the potential problems on 40 series, was replaced (at 79 hours) and there were no further records of problems.

The cab is very quiet compared with the DIY cab on my L3200. The cloth seat is a plus and it feels more refined in general. The first couple projects will be rear work lights and a cutting / wear edge on the bucket.

 

[MickeyDBC]

Coming later this week. L4240 with just under 1,000 hours on the clock. The desire was to find something with A/C and a few more horses than the L3200 and preferably without the "earth friendly" Final Tier IV stuff. Was watching for a 38-ish HP tractor so there would be enough power to run the A/C and a 90" RFM.

Kubotas have always been good to me, but I looked at a used Kioti a few weeks back and drove a couple new 38HP Mahindras last week. Then this came along. I can't see anything on it that looks used, and it isn't a repaint / restore job. Using the serial number another dealer confirmed the seller's story that the hydro pump, one of the potential problems on 40 series, was replaced (at 79 hours) and there were no further records of problems.

The cab is very quiet compared with the DIY cab on my L3200. The cloth seat is a plus and it feels more refined in general. The first couple projects will be rear work lights and a cutting / wear edge on the bucket.

Nice looking tractor!

 

[Jchonline]

Beautiful. Amazing it has 1000 hours on it.

 

[mcfarmall]

AGCO=the MTD of farm equipment.