Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Snobdds]

As long as China holds all the rare earth metals needed to build lithium batteries...we (the US) should not go all in on electric battery based tech. We would be giving up our energy independence.

That is not moving forward.

 

[4570Man]

This is much like old people who refuse to use battery powered tools. They are taking over. Get used to it. And they're better.

5 years will be the flip point from more EV than gas cars. Trucks will take another couple of years.

When everyone has one every company will be focusing on the profits of better batteries and chargers and accessories.

Gasoline is the wagon wheel. Get on board or get left behind.

Battery tools are actually useful. 100 percent electric vehicles are about like the battery tools of 1990. Not very good. And all of this zero emissions bull crap is completely wrong.

 

[ericm979]

There are other battery technologies besides lithium. Lithium is the best power/weight commercial stage tech right now. But that performance is not needed for all applications. People are working on other high performance battery techs to replace expensive lithium.

Even just sticking to lithium, Chile has greater lithium production and reserves than China. There are sizeable known reserves in seven other countries.

CUTs for the non commercial user (like the vast majority on this forum) would be perfect battery vehicles. They're not run 8 or more hours a day every day. Battery weight isn't a problem for tractors. But I only know of one manufacturer of electric CUTs and they're a small startup outfit.

 

[airbiscuit]

Internal combustion engines made the horse obsolete. The wheel of technology continues to roll ......

 

[4570Man]

There are other battery technologies besides lithium. Lithium is the best power/weight commercial stage tech right now. But that performance is not needed for all applications. People are working on other high performance battery techs to replace expensive lithium.

Even just sticking to lithium, Chile has greater lithium production and reserves than China. There are sizeable known reserves in seven other countries.

CUTs for the non commercial user (like the vast majority on this forum) would be perfect battery vehicles. They're not run 8 or more hours a day every day. Battery weight isn't a problem for tractors. But I only know of one manufacturer of electric CUTs and they're a small startup outfit.

Even if I only ran my tractor 2 hours a day I’ve always wished I could buy a high dollar tractor battery every few years. Plus when I go do a remote job it would be great hauling the tractor back home every night to charge. That would be assuming I have power where I keep the tractor which I don’t.

 

[Snobdds]

There are other battery technologies besides lithium. Lithium is the best power/weight commercial stage tech right now. But that performance is not needed for all applications. People are working on other high performance battery techs to replace expensive lithium.

Even just sticking to lithium, Chile has greater lithium production and reserves than China. There are sizeable known reserves in seven other countries.

CUTs for the non commercial user (like the vast majority on this forum) would be perfect battery vehicles. They're not run 8 or more hours a day every day. Battery weight isn't a problem for tractors. But I only know of one manufacturer of electric CUTs and they're a small startup outfit.

I hope they find something that can replace lithium. It would be really convenient if the tech could be wholly produced in the US.

Look at what Toyota is doing. They currently have the best selection of electric hybrids, but the vast majority of their R&D dollars are in hydrogen fuel cell technology. They know being dependent upon questionable supply sources is foolish. So the power source for electric cars is still being worked through, which is good.

 

[sd455dan]

As long as China holds all the rare earth metals needed to build lithium batteries...we (the US) should not go all in on electric battery based tech. We would be giving up our energy independence.

That is not moving forward.

Tesla looks to be moving ahead

The Nevada Giga factory was slated to to produce 35 GWh year of battery cells and 50 GWh of battery packs

Now upped that projection to 105 GWh and 150 GWh for 2020

Also a battery Investor day is approaching with Musk mentioning (on their conference call) a road map to a full Terawatt of cell production

interesting take on where Tesla (may) be heading with their battery tech and recent corporate tech purchases related to the Giga factories...

GigaNotes: Analysis From My Tesla Gigafactory Tour - YouTube

 

[JamesHW]

As long as China holds all the rare earth metals needed to build lithium batteries...we (the US) should not go all in on electric battery based tech. We would be giving up our energy independence.

That is not moving forward.

Recent development re RE materials:

Japan rare earths: Huge deposit of metals found in Pacific

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Audi e-tron and the new Mercedes will be selling in big numbers, the new e-tron is very common already, Volvos Polestar im sure will sell very good as Norway is considered a part of Volvos home market, Tesla will meet a lot of competition. Here in Norway a lot will go on electricity, the new car ferry where i live will be electric, we are seriously thinking on use electric passenger plane on the short routes and the list goes on. In agriculture it has been very little focus on electrification.

Agvg here is a tow test between Tesla, Audi and Mercedes done in your country which is beautiful by the way. There are about 10K links to other EV news at the end of the article.

Tesla Model X beats Mercedes-Benz EQC and Audi e-tron in camper trailer towing test - Electrek

Over three days, they drove 1,381 kilometers with the three electric SUVs.

They didn稚 stop at using the same caravan to make sure the test was fair. They also used 3 experienced EV drivers who often changed vehicles.

Based on their tests, the Model X is by far the most efficient electric SUV with and without a trailer:

Models Wh per km/mi with trailer Wh per km/mi without trailer
Tesla Model X Long Range (100D) 279 Wh/449 Wh 153 Wh/246 Wh
Mercedes-Benz EQC 400 306 Wh/492 Wh 163 Wh/262 Wh
Audi e-tron 55 353 Wh/568 Wh 185 Wh/298 Wh

The EQC required about 10% more energy to travel the same distance as the Model X with a trailer.

Unsurprisingly, the e-tron, which is not very efficient (for an EV) as previously noted, came in last and required about 27% more energy to travel the same distance as the Model X with a trailer.

If my reformatting fails you can see the table in the actual link.

 

[Agvg]

Tesla has the upper hand, but I do think Tesla and Audi/MB may attract very different customers, Tesla is very experimental in design, testing out very different instrument lay out etc, a bit like Citroen has been doing for decades, but if your dream is a VW Golf you probably don't like Citroen's experimental approach. The same with Tesla Vs Audi/MB.

 

[drssg]

I’m surprised that Tesla’s Model 3 has sold as well as it has. While it’s significantly cheaper than the other Tesla models, it’s still a good $40k-50k. For that, you get a car with no dashboard controls, and the speedometer is on an iPad-like display on the center console.

If I eventually buy and EV, I suspect it will be from one of the more established manufacturers. It’s a lot of money to invest, and I would want to feel confident that the company will still be around in 10+ years.

 

[JasperFrank]

Just got back from vacationing in France. We mostly used short haul city to city bus lines for transportation. All of the buses we rode on were pure electric and made by Chinese companies. Yutong was the most common. I can't even recall hearing a single ICE idling or starting at the bus stations. This was a huge transition from the last time we were in France, in 2012. Most of the buses we rode then were diesel or hybrid-electric. Big change in only 6-7 years.

 

[fried1765]

Battery tools are actually useful. 100 percent electric vehicles are about like the battery tools of 1990. Not very good. And all of this zero emissions bull crap is completely wrong.

AOC doesn't think so!

 

[airbiscuit]

Luddites think so

 

[drssg]

For anyone that’s interested in talking about the politics behind EVs, there are topics over on Friendly Politics. IIRC, this is about the forth attempt to have a non-political discussion about EVs.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Just got back from vacationing in France. We mostly used short haul city to city bus lines for transportation. All of the buses we rode on were pure electric and made by Chinese companies. Yutong was the most common. I can't even recall hearing a single ICE idling or starting at the bus stations. This was a huge transition from the last time we were in France, in 2012. Most of the buses we rode then were diesel or hybrid-electric. Big change in only 6-7 years.

Yutong Bus and Coach - Launch of the first full electric bus in France - YouTube

Yutong is a huge company throughout much of the world. There is another video showing one of their factories that is so modern.

We in the USA seem to be winning the race to the bottom all around. I had no idea how far we have fallen behind in world standards. We are busy infighting about everything. 65 years ago we were exporting vehicles world wide and providing jobs that once was improving the standard of living.

If Tesla has not come along and used their aerospace and solar energy storage batteries knowledge to build self driving electrical vehicles would we even be aware how behind the times we are compared to Europe and Asia technology and its implementation?

My goal is to have a fully self driving vehicle so I can stay mobile even as physical limitations may increase.

Yes I would like to have a Tesla yesterday but right now that is not in the cards but maybe a 5 year old Nissan Leaf can be next year as a proof of concept and experience of learning about EV ownership.

Here is another article that mentions Norway and China's leadership in EV's. The reader comments are telling.

There are more than 2 million electric vehicles on the road around the world | Ars Technica

 

[aczlan]

I think the ability to tow and a range of 200 miles or better will be import in rural USA as well to drive the demand for EV's. I picked up a 2010 Subaru Forester two years ago and I plan to keep one around for towing and bad weather. An electric version would be nice. Tesla being an aerospace and battery maker gives it an edge over car makers trying to electrify because they had to start from scratch to make a vehicle chassis and they do it mainly with robots more and more.

I agree. I need a 60 mile range to get to work and back, but if I have a doctor's appointment, a kids game, etc I often need 120-150 miles or range (in the summer, add a percentage to account for defroster and heat use in the winter).
200 miles with seating for 7 would fit the bill, but I can buy a lot of fuel in my current 20mpg car for what it would cost to get an EV.

Aaron Z

 

[Agvg]

Tesla by fare the leading EV manufacturer, no one are close so US have a nr 1 posisjon I the EV world, without Tesla no one of the old giants would have done more than talk and fancy mockups and prototype than never would have been released to the public.

 

[Agvg]

You in the us have low fuel prices, and as I understand it not the best electrical grid, 3 phase is not std delivery so home charging might be an issue.

 

[wheelbuilder]

I think the electric car business needs the equivalent of the 20 lb propane tank as a battery. Keep a small semi permanent battery built into the car, but have a large battery that is either automatically swapped, or easily user swapped for the main charge. Run the whole bit like the propane tank swap so it is quick and simple. The battery charging is handled by a business and is done offline from the car. No waiting for a battery to charge as a customer. Batteries can get better without being tied to a car.
For the driver, it's just like buying gas.