Time for a new HVAC 5 ton - Help!

[Sigarms]

In regard to advertised efficiency and features. I can buy 2 and almost 3 Goodman units for the price of the Trane. It is a no brainer. I have goodman and Trane at the office.

Need to do a blast test on ductwork before anyone promises any type of efficiency. Worst thing you can do is throw multi stage equipment on 20 year plus old ductwork.

Personally, if you're looking at the compressor warranty, seems to be the same on the Goodman 16 vs 18 SEER and assuming it's older existing ductwork, would look at the 16 SEER price.

That said, lifetime compressor warranty NEVER works out the way you think it does if your compressor fails after 12 years. Doing this for over 20 years, seen it. That said, generally, homeowners get fried with all the possible outcomes and what could come out of their pocket because the compressor warranty is NEVER EVER free to the homeowner.

 

[ultrarunner]

ANY brand can be bought by a DIY. Goodman however has a higher percentage IMO due to distribution.

I'll let you in on a secret, the Japanese (who have since bought out Goodman) absolutely despise Goodman. Give Daikin time, things will change IMHO.

Daiken equals the worst experience for me... mostly all Carrier and some nearly 30 years old as far as HVAC

I hope it was a one off experience so not trying to condemn the whole company...

Did a like for like Carrier Replacement with a Daikon drop in... well, it was not a drop in as advertised... but OK.

While the unit was still under warranty the coil developed a leak and lost the compressor.

Unit was down 6 weeks in July/August waiting for coil to arrive from overseas...

So yes... they did furnish the parts at no cost but I have tenants that ended up not renewing over this.

Carrier has always had what I needed... even total replacement package units in 72 hours... for a price of course.

 

[RalphVa]

We replaced a 5 ton Trane unit several years ago. The Trane often ran for short periods of time, and was like a train starting up. This clued me in that it was perhaps too big. Yes, our HVAC people took measurements of the house and info on insulation, etc. and concluded that 4 ton unit would do. Went with a 4 ton Carrier. It runs a much longer period of time in need of lots of heat or AC. More efficient that way, plus it had some more efficiency built in via newer technology.

A few years later (think only may 3 ago), we replaced the 2 1/2 ton top story unit with a 2 ton Carrier. It, too, it more efficient and very quiet. It, in particularly, will heat the upper story without having to mess with the heat coil backup, which causes problems with the diesel generator, to be sure it stays off, etc. Keep it locked out with the thermostat.

Both these ran close to $10k installed, e.g. with new inside variable speed fan, etc.

Ralph

 

[RalphVa]

Only trouble we've had with the 2 Carriers is the motor on the variable speed fan had to be replaced on the 2 ton unit. Nothing on the 4 ton.

Around 6 years ago, we put in ductless Fujitsu units (2 inside; 1 outside) in the basement. They're the most efficient of the lot. No backup coils. No service needed. Don't run them all the time, just when I want some added heat or AC down here. These units would be the most efficient, outside of a geo unit, for a house. One outside unit can supply up to around 7 inside units. Just need refrigerant lines running to/from each inside unit. Would be great in a house with no room for the duct work.

Of course, the most efficient route is to go geothermal if you have space for either another well or for the underground lines running about. Unfortunately, at this house/property on a piece of pie with the house and all at the point of the pie and the rest going downhill to creek bottom land, there isn't any space for such.

Ralph

 

[Sigarms]

Daiken equals the worst experience for me... mostly all Carrier and some nearly 30 years old as far as HVAC

I hope it was a one off experience so not trying to condemn the whole company...

Did a like for like Carrier Replacement with a Daikon drop in... well, it was not a drop in as advertised... but OK.

While the unit was still under warranty the coil developed a leak and lost the compressor.

Unit was down 6 weeks in July/August waiting for coil to arrive from overseas...

So yes... they did furnish the parts at no cost but I have tenants that ended up not renewing over this.

Carrier has always had what I needed... even total replacement package units in 72 hours... for a price of course.

Are we talking about Daikin before or after they bought out Goodman? Honestly, the japs I don't think they had a clue what they bought per warranty plans when they bought out Goodman. The biggest advantage Daikin has is they're actually manufacturing mini splits (VRF commercial systems) in the US now. Daikin is still trying to figure out how to go to market with their unitary split product line vs Amana (higher end Goodman) and Goodman. Primary reason why Trane and Mitsubishi are now together and Fujitsu and Rheem/Ruud are together. It's a race to combine mini splits with unitary split product. Daikin has the inside track IMO due to their facility in Texas (we call it the "Death Star" LOL). No one else can come close at this point. All that said, I wouldn't put a Goodman or Daikin in my own home at this point in time (2 of my 3 split systems I'm certain no one has even ever heard of before, it's not the equipment, but the install).

Carrier is going down the tubes due to distribution. Carrier sold out for distribution. Kind of two seperate divisions now. I won't name the buyer, but anyone in the business knows who it is.

 

[AllDodge]

Warranty all the same

With an Asure Extended Service Agreement*, you’ll have your choice of 5-years, 10-years, or even up to 99-years (compressor only) of worry-free comfort without the unexpected cost of replacement parts or labor expenses should your Amana® brand equipment require service. If a repair is needed, an Authorized Asure Dealer will respond promptly and make repairs with quality Amana brand parts.

Industry Leading Warranty For Heat Pumps | Amana-Hac

 

[kenmac]

Need to do a blast test on ductwork before anyone promises any type of efficiency. Worst thing you can do is throw multi stage equipment on 20 year plus old ductwork.

Personally, if you're looking at the compressor warranty, seems to be the same on the Goodman 16 vs 18 SEER and assuming it's older existing ductwork, would look at the 16 SEER price.

That said, lifetime compressor warranty NEVER works out the way you think it does if your compressor fails after 12 years. Doing this for over 20 years, seen it. That said, generally, homeowners get fried with all the possible outcomes and what could come out of their pocket because the compressor warranty is NEVER EVER free to the homeowner.

Yeah, not gonna get much efficiency rating with air leaks in the duct work.
Duct blasting is mandatory here, on any new install,or replacement. And, the customer is provided with a printed report of the results.
Duct Insulation requirements are much thicker now, than yrs past

Will be interesting how the compressor warrant plays out. As they say. ''if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is''

 

[Sigarms]

Will be interesting how the compressor warrant plays out. As they say. ''if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is''

1 - No realizes that in general, if you can find a OEM compressor past 15 years in age for replacement, you'll be lucky.
2 - No one reads the "pro rated" fine print in lieu of a new compressor per #1.
3 - No one understands the R410A, just like R22 is being phased out, and that compressor are dependent on both speficiffic refrigerant along with oil.
4 - No one generally takes into account the ratio between volume of the coil surface area between the indoor and outdoor coil to achieve SEER rating and that genearlly, manufacturers require new comonents to current systems still be AHRI rated.
5 - No one understands the pro rated part about needing a WHOLE new system "under warranty" due #3 and #4
6 - No one understands that the lifetime compressor warranty does NOT include labor.
7 - No one understands the fine print about who is doing in the install and how the equipment is bought (being enforced more and more now due to internet sales).

Just because something is mandatory by the government doesn't mean everyone is going to do it

 

[AllDodge]

"No one" pretty broad based statement there

 

[Sigarms]

"No one" pretty broad based statement there

You're the one promoting the "Industry leading warranty for heat pumps":thumbsup::laughing:

I'll be the first one to tell anyone that the government has made it harder (if not impossible) for manufacturers of HVAC equipment to make equipment as reliable as it was even 20 years ago (I'm kind of old school in that the more parts you have, particularly electronic, you increase the odds of issues over time), added HVAC systems are not plug and play. That said, I could be wrong on the exact year, but it's funny that it was Goodman who first came out the the 10 year compressor AND parts warranty about 15 years ago. Before that, HVAC equipment was only 5 years on parts and compressor. For some reason, Americans equate qualtiy with the warranty which isn't always the case from my own experience.

FYI, Daikin owns Goodman and Amana. It's Amana that generally pushes the lifetime compressor warranty (particularly with single stage compressors), but it is avilalbe with Goodman 2 stage compressor equipment as well)