Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[buickanddeere]

That is odd, we have propane forklifts at work and they pull liquid propane out of the tank, then run it through a vaporizer (which is heated by coolant), doesn't matter how cold it gets, they have gaseous propane to run the engine (once they get warmed up).

Aaron Z

An old folk lift is one thing . A new Tier IV emissions highway vehicle is another .

 

[aczlan]

An old folk lift is one thing . A new Tier IV emissions highway vehicle is another .

We just bought new forklifts this year that are setup that way. Liquid withdrawal from the tank to a coolant heated vaporizer, then to a pressure regulator, then on to a fuel injection system.
How else will you gurantee that you are feeding the engine gaseous propane?
Generally, most commercial propane powered engines are setup the same way.


Aaron Z

 

[TheGoose]

You are not understanding that battery tech has itç—´ limits . Lithium ion is peaked out now .
There has been no improvements to lead acid , nicad or alkaline batteries in decades . How does anyone expect existing lithium ion types to double or triple capacity .
Lithium Sulphur is being researched . However the price , reliability , number of charge cycles , charge rate and discharge rate make lithium Sulphur only useful and for specialized military equipment .
Lithium ion are dangerously reactive already . Lithium Sulphur contains 2X-3X the amount of energy to release during a thermal run away or physical damage .

I said not one thing about lithium ion in my post. I don’t give a rats behind about the chemistry of the battery. All you have to do is look at how technology has changed in 20 years. Battery tech, as a whole, is greatly improved over time.

There are economic reasons and drivers aside from EV’s that will drive battery tech whether it be Lithium or other materials.

The fact is that lithium batteries of today can do the job but they are still too expensive. I read an article awhile back about how the cost of the batteries has been drastically reduced in the last 4-5 years and is still headed down.

I personally own 5 ICE vehicles with two being diesel. I’m not against ICE, but I can already see that just like other technology their time is coming to an end. You can’t fight the future.

 

[buickanddeere]

I said not one thing about lithium ion in my post. I don’t give a rats behind about the chemistry of the battery. All you have to do is look at how technology has changed in 20 years. Battery tech, as a whole, is greatly improved over time.

There are economic reasons and drivers aside from EV’s that will drive battery tech whether it be Lithium or other materials.

The fact is that lithium batteries of today can do the job but they are still too expensive. I read an article awhile back about how the cost of the batteries has been drastically reduced in the last 4-5 years and is still headed down.

I personally own 5 ICE vehicles with two being diesel. I’m not against ICE, but I can already see that just like other technology their time is coming to an end. You can’t fight the future.

You can “believe” all you want . You can “ want wonderful things “ , you can “mean well”. Still doesn’t change the laws of physics .

 

[TheGoose]

Battery prices falling. Predicted that for every doubling in manufacturing capacity the price will drop 18% due to economy of scale.

 

[TheGoose]

You can “believe” all you want . You can “ want wonderful things “ , you can “mean well”. Still doesn’t change the laws of physics .

I’m not sure if you’re trying to label me or what. I only stated facts, not hypothesis.

Please explain to me what the laws of physics are that will permanently limit battery size energy density to 2020 levels?

I’m not saying you’re going to carry around a 1 mega watt hr battery the size of a smart phone in your pocket. I’m saying that it’s only going to take a few more marginal gains in efficiency and cost.

Everything else will change right? Computers will get cheaper/faster/lighter/more powerful, materials will get lighter, heck even ICE engines will improve their efficiency, but battery tech is frozen at 2020 levels?

 

[/pine]

In general technology advances every 18 months...it's not always a smooth curve...
As far as batteries...the limits of Lithium may be close...just like it was reached with Alkaline (NiCd) etc., etc...

If the future is EVs...it's going to be with their own power sources...not batteries unless some game changing discovery or advancement is made...

 

[Jim Nelson]

I asked the UPS driver the other day if they had any electric delivery vans yet. He said he heard that had some or they were on order but they semis that ran on natural gas. The link below states how they are using CNG.

UPS To Add More Than 6, Vehicles To Its Natural Gas Fleet

1 reasons why CNG is the new diesel | Fleet Europe

My neighbor and good friend lost his construction company during the last economic train wreck and ended up driving a bus for the local transportation district that was CNG powered. We were talking and I said "At least it's air conditioned"
. His reply was "No it doesn't have enough power to run the a.c."

It might smell better outside but inside could get pretty ripe. There is a price for conservation, like it or not.

 

[Egon]

Battery charging does not work . Don稚 waste our time with fables of new cheaper and better batteries just around the corner . That story is decades old .
Also spare us the compressed air , trains on mountains and pumped hydraulic reservoirs tales as well.

Using power in off peak hours would even out the changes required from the generating stations.

As for charging batteries it seems to work for myself and probably most of the people in this country including yourself. What does one of the main backup systems you have at work run on constantly? It would not be a battery System would it?

 

[California]

Battery charging does not work . Don't waste our time with fables ...

Also spare us the ... pumped hydraulic reservoirs tales as well.

Pumped hydraulic energy storage is a tale, a fable, as you see the world.

In contrast out here in reality this facility stores up to 1,200 megawatts.

Its been on line 35 years now. (That link also lists some other innovative projects).