Got wood?

[MossRoad]

You may not know this, but only 4% of forests in the united states are old growth forest. Everything else you see is at least 2nd growth, if not 3rd or 4th growth.

 

[MossRoad]

What I find interesting is the people confuse forest management with a healthy forest.

A healthy forest has debris on the forest floor. There's trees of varying height, size and species, as well as dead standing trees. When a large tree falls, it takes out other trees, as well as opens up that area of the canopy to the sun. The smaller trees start reaching for the sun and the process continues.

For the most part, you shouldn't be able to look very far into a healthy forest. Your view should be blocked by smaller trees, shrubs, fallen trees, etc... There should be varied species of animals as well.

Of course, you can manage a forest for your own usage. I do that myself. I'm removing species I don't want and promoting species I do want in one area, and we've planted another in alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods. The oaks in the planted hardwoods started producing acorns a few years ago when they were about 20 years old. Now that area is starting to see natural reproduction on its own.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

You may not know this, but only 4% of forests in the united states are old growth forest. Everything else you see is at least 2nd growth, if not 3rd or 4th growth.

30 years ago, I was on a hunting trip in N central PA, seriously 50 miles from anything... Walking down a small creek run, thinking I was the only Human to have ever set foot on this place; I tripped over an old, old logging chain...

 

[Steppenwolfe]

What I find interesting is the people confuse forest management with a healthy forest.

A healthy forest has debris on the forest floor. There's trees of varying height, size and species, as well as dead standing trees. When a large tree falls, it takes out other trees, as well as opens up that area of the canopy to the sun. The smaller trees start reaching for the sun and the process continues.

For the most part, you shouldn't be able to look very far into a healthy forest. Your view should be blocked by smaller trees, shrubs, fallen trees, etc... There should be varied species of animals as well.

Of course, you can manage a forest for your own usage. I do that myself. I'm removing species I don't want and promoting species I do want in one area, and we've planted another in alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods. The oaks in the planted hardwoods started producing acorns a few years ago when they were about 20 years old. Now that area is starting to see natural reproduction on its own.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

My neighbor has 50 acres of woods next to me; he literally went through and removed EVERY Virginia Pine tree. Said he doesn't like them... :confused3:

 

[MossRoad]

30 years ago, I was on a hunting trip in N central PA, seriously 50 miles from anything... Walking down a small creek run, thinking I was the only Human to have ever set foot on this place; I tripped over an old, old logging chain...

I have never been somewhere where if I looked hard enough, I couldn't find a cigarette butt. National forests, state parks, Appalachian trail, grand canyon, mountains to oceans, I've never NOT seen a cigarette butt.

 

[MossRoad]

My neighbor has 50 acres of woods next to me; he literally went through and removed EVERY Virginia Pine tree. Said he doesn't like them... :confused3:

His land, his choice I guess. I've removed over 600 locust trees from my property in 10+ years. I burned them all in my wood burner. The clearing of that species opened up the canopy for maples and oaks.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Do we have to cut down every tree?

You don't have trees where you live? We have way too many where I live. We burned a million acres of them this summer to get rid of them.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

What I find interesting is the people confuse forest management with a healthy forest.

A healthy forest has debris on the forest floor. There's trees of varying height, size and species, as well as dead standing trees. When a large tree falls, it takes out other trees, as well as opens up that area of the canopy to the sun. The smaller trees start reaching for the sun and the process continues.

For the most part, you shouldn't be able to look very far into a healthy forest. Your view should be blocked by smaller trees, shrubs, fallen trees, etc... There should be varied species of animals as well.

Of course, you can manage a forest for your own usage. I do that myself. I'm removing species I don't want and promoting species I do want in one area, and we've planted another in alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods. The oaks in the planted hardwoods started producing acorns a few years ago when they were about 20 years old. Now that area is starting to see natural reproduction on its own.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

There are dozens of ways to manage a forest. It's up to the landowner to decide how the land is managed. I get a kick out of the fact that The Nature Conservancy does logging projects all the time to get rid of trees that are choking out endangered species. I did a small logging project 5 years ago, and the explosion of wildlife species on my property has been impressive.

As a landowner, the federal government has been a dismal failure. Their laws and regulations were written by people who have never even seen the land, and couldn't recognize the species in their local city park. They have never set foot on the land, or watched it change from year to year, so they manage it by blanket fiats from an office building.

 

[fatjay]

I always find it ironic when people seem to think that if we didn't do anything to "the outdoors" it would just revert back like we never existed. We've been influencing the planet for centuries... the American Indians used to burn the forests of Appalachia periodically to promote game habitat. The Greeks caused so much pollution with their lead works that they've found evidence on this continent. We are the dominant species on the planet for now and the population is too widespread to expect to be able to sit back and watch nature like it's a big fishbowl.

I mow down my property and 2 months later it痴 completely overgrown. Trees pop up all over. I致e got a tree growing through my Ferguson that I need to cut out before it gets to big.

 

[Jstpssng]

What I find interesting is the people confuse forest management with a healthy forest.

A healthy forest has debris on the forest floor. There's trees of varying height, size and species, as well as dead standing trees. When a large tree falls, it takes out other trees, as well as opens up that area of the canopy to the sun. The smaller trees start reaching for the sun and the process continues.

For the most part, you shouldn't be able to look very far into a healthy forest. Your view should be blocked by smaller trees, shrubs, fallen trees, etc... There should be varied species of animals as well.

Of course, you can manage a forest for your own usage. I do that myself. I'm removing species I don't want and promoting species I do want in one area, and we've planted another in alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods. The oaks in the planted hardwoods started producing acorns a few years ago when they were about 20 years old. Now that area is starting to see natural reproduction on its own.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

I don't think that you can generalize that way. Just because a forest is managed doesn't mean that it isn't healthy. Also, no matter how heathy the ecosystem is you can't expect to see every species there; the wildlife which benefits most from us are pioneer species just like we are. Supposedly 90% of Maine was cleared 150 years ago. I find tht hard to believe, yet as others have indicated I've been in some pretty remote places and found old bits of barbed wire, and evidence of old hunting or logging camps. I once found a big piece of coal in what seemed like the strangest place; yet looking at old topo maps there once was a road there. There used to be a machine called a Lombard log hauler which had a steam engine powered by coal.
I've been in places which are as close to virgin forest as you can expect to see on this coast. It was mainly devoid of wildlife, because not enough light gets to the ground for much of anything to grow. That's the type of terrain which animals like caribou prefer... except that the caribou are long gone.

Last year I had a road opened up into an area which was last cut in 1993. It looked like a great place to hunt deer... the only thing missing was the wildlife. We cut it early enough so that the hardwood started sprouting last fall. The first time that I went in there this spring I found that the deer had already found it. Again, another pioneer species...

 

[MossRoad]

I don't think that you can generalize that way. Just because a forest is managed doesn't mean that it isn't healthy. Also, no matter how heathy the ecosystem is you can't expect to see every species there; the wildlife which benefits most from us are pioneer species just like we are. Supposedly 90% of Maine was cleared 150 years ago. I find tht hard to believe, yet as others have indicated I've been in some pretty remote places and found old bits of barbed wire, and evidence of old hunting or logging camps. I once found a big piece of coal in what seemed like the strangest place; yet looking at old topo maps there once was a road there. There used to be a machine called a Lombard log hauler which had a steam engine powered by coal.
I've been in places which are as close to virgin forest as you can expect to see on this coast. It was mainly devoid of wildlife, because not enough light gets to the ground for much of anything to grow. That's the type of terrain which animals like caribou prefer... except that the caribou are long gone.

Last year I had a road opened up into an area which was last cut in 1993. It looked like a great place to hunt deer... the only thing missing was the wildlife. We cut it early enough so that the hardwood started sprouting last fall. The first time that I went in there this spring I found that the deer had already found it. Again, another pioneer species...

You can say the same things about a corn field.

 

[Jstpssng]

You can say the same things about a corn field.

A cornfield is an intensely managed monoculture. Managing a forest can be as simple as cutting sustainably, thinning as needed and cutting the mature and/or unhealthy trees. When was the last time that you saw a bear's den in a farmer's field?

 

[MossRoad]

A cornfield is an intensely managed monoculture. Managing a forest can be as simple as cutting sustainably, thinning as needed and cutting the mature and/or unhealthy trees. When was the last time that you saw a bear's den in a farmer's field?

Ever wondered how a bear makes a den in a cornfield? Warren reader shares photos of just such a 'nest' | Grand Forks Herald

 

[MossRoad]

Iowa farmer harvesting corn makes odd discovery—a black bear - Men's Journal

 

[MossRoad]

Trapped Bear

 

[MossRoad]

:laughing:

 

[Jstpssng]

Now how about addressing the monoculture part of my comment.

 

[goeduck]

I try to remove non native species and encourage/plant native species. Yesterday I discovered someone encroached by about 75 feet over a remote property line on a vacant parcel of mine to make a picnic area near the creek that is on my property. He is about 150 feet into the wetland buffer which starts on his property. I am having it surveyed, marked and will plant native Western Red Cedars there (they tolerate wet roots). The guy is a local prominent doctor, I doubt he will want publicity on this so I am hoping for a good outcome.

 

[MossRoad]

Now how about addressing the monoculture part of my comment.

Oh I agree with you, I'm just poking some fun about the bear. Managing a forest for yourself is anything you want it to be. You can remove invasive species. Remove mature trees for timber, firewood, or just to open areas up for smaller species to be able to mature. Or you can do nothing and let nature take it's course. It's all up the owner.

We have a 4 acre field that we planted with alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods back around 1990. There's only 1 species of pine. There's 8 species of oak, tulip poplar, cherry, walnut and a few more that I forget. At first glance, one would think it's a monoculture due to the pines and pine needles. However, once you start looking around, you notice the other species. There's turkeys, deer, rabbits, squirrels, etc... It was suggested when we had it planted to plant many different species as a hedge against diseases and pests, and avoid a monoculture.

Then there's a 6 acre patch that was corn field when we bought it. We let that go to see what happens. The back half of it immediately went to black cherry and very few other species seem to grow under it. The front half went to oaks. All of that on it's own without intervention.

We have another strip that's 10 acre of mixed forest. That's the healthiest section. The forester estimated 20,000 trees. That's 1,000 trees per acre. Several dozen species. Large to small. I cannot physically walk through most of it except for the deer paths or where I push through with the brush cutter.

 

[/pine]

Speaking of bears...We had a nuisance bear here last week (not a large mast crop locally this year)...besides tearing up bird feeders and BBQ grills etc...it was carrying stuff off including a gallon jug of Clorox (chewed several holes in the jug) as well as a spray bottle of Fantastic cleanser...among other things...

If I remember I will post some pics of the bleach jug tomorrow in the wildlife thread...