Some illumination please

[Fuddy1952]

I think I'd contact your insurance agent and have an electrician fix it. Right now it sounds screwy.

 

[arrow]

Something does not sound right. Possibly the breakers are doing their job and protecting you? Did the welder breaker trip as well? Can you post a picture of the 30 amp ganged breaker?

I'm sure the breakers did their job but they are no longer doing it. The welder breaker did not trip in the garage which strikes me as odd.
When I shut off the main, if there was a short in the line some place, the breakers should have held as no current was running. That they didn't, tells me the breakers got fried. They look like this:

 

[K5lwq]

Then that is a problem. The welder breaker should trip before the main unless the welder breaker is bigger. If there is a short there will be current to ground or neutral and possibly cause a fire. You could disconnect the wires from the breaker going to the garage and see if the breaker will hold then.

But I agree with Fuddy, it is time for an electrician to give you proper power to the garage if you are going to be running a welder and other equipment. Then you could look at upgrading to a 220 unit.

I may be overly cautious but I have seen enough electrical fires in my life and don't want that to happen to you. :thumbsup:

 

[arrow]

I think I'd contact your insurance agent and have an electrician fix it. Right now it sounds screwy.

Yeah, I got one of my electrician brother in laws coming up.

 

[arrow]

Then that is a problem. The welder breaker should trip before the main unless the welder breaker is bigger. If there is a short there will be current to ground or neutral and possibly cause a fire. You could disconnect the wires from the breaker going to the garage and see if the breaker will hold then.

But I agree with Fuddy, it is time for an electrician to give you proper power to the garage if you are going to be running a welder and other equipment. Then you could look at upgrading to a 220 unit.

I may be overly cautious but I have seen enough electrical fires in my life and don't want that to happen to you. :thumbsup:

Wouldn't shutting off the main do the same thing? No power coming through any of them. Breakers still didn't hold.

 

[WranglerX]

Wouldn't shutting off the main do the same thing? No power coming through any of them. Breakers still didn't hold.

IF one kills mains ( 100 or 200 amp), and the down stream breaker will not reset, the problem is the down stream breaker.....

And it could be only one of the two ganged breakers, but replace the pair if either or both found defective...

Our local museum had a proble with one breaker, it was turn off manually and some work was done on a receptacle, and when we tried to power up break it would not hold.... Wiring was good, breaker failed, nasty part was we had to replace a 3 phase style breaker that only was serving two 120V circuits....

Dale

 

[K5lwq]

Wouldn't shutting off the main do the same thing? No power coming through any of them. Breakers still didn't hold.

Then yes I would agree. My concern is why did it burn that breaker instead of tripping the welder breaker? I get if a breaker is weak or worn but it still should be checked. I am glad you have an electrician in the family coming to help. Good luck!

 

[arrow]

Thank you
My next step is to see what I can do to 220 volt the welding socket and forego the thought of a cheaper flux core welder. Even if I never use gas, I believe my best bet is to go with a more solid wire feeder such as a 210 Hobart or Lincoln.
I don't know enough of the quality of alternative branding but think Esab, Forney and Miller also to be good.
I have a Chinese stick welder and I feel it has put a bad taste in my mouth for inverters made in that country.
I'm sure there are some brands that are good made in China but I am ignorant of them.

 

[WranglerX]

Thank you
My next step is to see what I can do to 220 volt the welding socket and forego the thought of a cheaper flux core welder. Even if I never use gas, I believe my best bet is to go with a more solid wire feeder such as a 210 Hobart or Lincoln.
I don't know enough of the quality of alternative branding but think Esab, Forney and Miller also to be good.
I have a Chinese stick welder and I feel it has put a bad taste in my mouth for inverters made in that country.
I'm sure there are some brands that are good made in China but I am ignorant of them.

China is really good at making products to "specification"... IF bulk buyer specifies cheap product you get cheap product.... As I hate to say it, but its not all about China quality...

My top names are Lincoln, Hobart, Miller, ESAB....

Dale

 

[BukitCase]

Arrow, not "talking down" to you but have you tried turning the breakers FURTHER OFF (firmly) and THEN trying to reset (turn on) ? Most breakers (unless they get a HUGE surge current) don't turn off far enough to engage the pawl that turns 'em back on... Steve (this does NOT apply if they look burned, that's a SURE sign you need new ones)

 

[chim]

A few random thoughts:

The main breaker may trip before the downstream breaker if the main breaker is operating at a percentage near it’s maximum rating.

My Millermatic 175 requires different drive rolls for solid and flux wire.

Good idea to get a real electrichicken involved.

 

[user.69169]

Pretty sure everything but me made wid China components, and I not sure bout my replacement parts.

Miller & Hobart both China machines pretty much all de way. Made mostly in ITW plants

Esab Euro product wid China components.

Lincoln pretty much world wide manufacture in plants Lincoln owns. Lincoln plays games wid model numbers. I got suitcase size 175 dat looks like 180 sold in box stores. Put machines side by side & lift hoods you see 175 has more metal den 180. Not to say plastic bad but plastic belongs where plastic belongs, and it ain't universal replacement for cast aluminum. 175 is sweeter arc den 180. Lincoln too much driven by marketing.

Remember, every manufacturer rating is come to wid machine running in perfect condition. Pretty good chance your shop not perfect condition.

Personally I don't think welder should be mail order buy. Local supply house be your most important connection and generally set up for you to test drive. Even Horrible Fright get close wid 30 day no questions return.

ITW cut throats of dealers who built Miller & Hobart markets so ITW could keep few more dollars in der pocket.. NOT Right in my book.

Local seller can explain difference between mail order machines and what he sells too. You bound & determined to mail order, go to Indiana Oxygen and see what they offering. IO was selling mail order pretty much 15 years back so injured guys could keep working from office or home. Guys selling for IO know what dey sell.

 

[WranglerX]

Pretty sure everything but me made wid China components, and I not sure bout my replacement parts.

Miller & Hobart both China machines pretty much all de way. Made mostly in ITW plants

Esab Euro product wid China components.

Lincoln pretty much world wide manufacture in plants Lincoln owns. Lincoln plays games wid model numbers. I got suitcase size 175 dat looks like 180 sold in box stores. Put machines side by side & lift hoods you see 175 has more metal den 180. Not to say plastic bad but plastic belongs where plastic belongs, and it ain't universal replacement for cast aluminum. 175 is sweeter arc den 180. Lincoln too much driven by marketing.

Remember, every manufacturer rating is come to wid machine running in perfect condition. Pretty good chance your shop not perfect condition.

Personally I don't think welder should be mail order buy. Local supply house be your most important connection and generally set up for you to test drive. Even Horrible Fright get close wid 30 day no questions return.

ITW cut throats of dealers who built Miller & Hobart markets so ITW could keep few more dollars in der pocket.. NOT Right in my book.

Local seller can explain difference between mail order machines and what he sells too. You bound & determined to mail order, go to Indiana Oxygen and see what they offering. IO was selling mail order pretty much 15 years back so injured guys could keep working from office or home. Guys selling for IO know what dey sell.

You stay awake at nigh dreaming up this BS....

Hobart and Miller still made in US.... Lot of Lincoln stuff out of Mexico....

Dale

 

[arrow]

Arrow, not "talking down" to you but have you tried turning the breakers FURTHER OFF (firmly) and THEN trying to reset (turn on) ? Most breakers (unless they get a HUGE surge current) don't turn off far enough to engage the pawl that turns 'em back on... Steve (this does NOT apply if they look burned, that's a SURE sign you need new ones)

Thanks Bukit. I do not consider this a "talk down". I confronted this very thing about 30 yrs ago where I was not snapping the breakers far back enough.
Here, Although they did not look "wasted", I just bought new ones as these were about 40 yrs old and smelled funky.

It seems I cannot convert these to 220 as they function on separate legs. One supplying the lights and one side the sockets. When the socket side went, it pulled the lights with it. As was explained to me:"if two circuits are going to th same junction,, they should be ganged". I assume this a safety issue.

The real solution is to run and bury an 8/2 wire and terminate with a 40 or 50 amp plug.

 

[arrow]

Pretty sure everything but me made wid China components, and I not sure bout my replacement parts.

Miller & Hobart both China machines pretty much all de way. Made mostly in ITW plants

Esab Euro product wid China components.



Lincoln pretty much world wide manufacture in plants Lincoln owns. Lincoln plays games wid model numbers. I got suitcase size 175 dat looks like 180 sold in box stores. Put machines side by side & lift hoods you see 175 has more metal den 180. Not to say plastic bad but plastic belongs where plastic belongs, and it ain't universal replacement for cast aluminum. 175 is sweeter arc den 180. Lincoln too much driven by marketing.

Remember, every manufacturer rating is come to wid machine running in perfect condition. Pretty good chance your shop not perfect condition.

Personally I don't think welder should be mail order buy. Local supply house be your most important connection and generally set up for you to test drive. Even Horrible Fright get close wid 30 day no questions return.

ITW cut throats of dealers who built Miller & Hobart markets so ITW could keep few more dollars in der pocket.. NOT Right in my book.

Local seller can explain difference between mail order machines and what he sells too. You bound & determined to mail order, go to Indiana Oxygen and see what they offering. IO was selling mail order pretty much 15 years back so injured guys could keep working from office or home. Guys selling for IO know what dey sell.

(removed), I can agree with buying from a welding house and thank you for your contribution.. If I can ask...why do you type with an accent? Are you from a different country or is it a personal thing on how these words should be spelled to you or you just being comical? No judgement..just curious.

 

[user.69169]

DL I tell you fortrue you bought bogus. Hobart & Miller along now wid Smith all ITW owned and all offshore parts, actually sub assemblys. Closest to US made is couple plants on American Samoa. Pretty much been out in open since 04 when BIG FRIDAY Evacuation of Hobart Board when ITW got caught dirty.
Things I dream up when I up at night ain't appropriate to discussion here. I got 9 woman harem to keep happy. Hall monitor go nuts.

Arrow, first language is Cajun Coonazz. Combine dat wid lazy and Art Ritus, and I type what I thinkin. English very wasteful of keystrokes.
If important enough I can I suppose revert to a language no longer taught in US Schools, American Standard English. Might even throw in a 7 Dollar word like ersatz or bathoz. Kinda like words wid Z in dem. You think I type funny you ought to hear me talkin to yankees surrounding me. Mostly dat gets me lot of peace, good since I kind of deaf too.
Learned most English I know from readin everything could lay hands on. Spellin, little red squiggle on screen pops up some, don't much matter. Like dat Sam Clemens fellow said, "Never trust a man who can only spell a word one way."

 

[arrow]

Cool beans (removed). He)), you taught m what "passivate" is even though I don't know why they do it.
And I agree, a lot of english spelling of words is kinda dumbazz in my book.

 

[user.69169]

Passivate sort of confusing thing. SS picks up iron molecules real easy in molten condition, and also changes color when welded. You get iron in the pool sometimes like from using steel brush on SS welds. Dat steel turns up as rust downline. Same can happen drilling SS with steel drill or even grinding wid same wheel you used on iron.
You passivate proper right after welds cool and welding gods are on yer side, discoloring and often rust potential goes away.

Fellow on another board built expensive SS deck rail system for customer, SS posts & cable. Didn't think what he was doin and drilled wid hispeed steel bit. Few months later customer is pissed about rust forming at every hole where cable passes thru. Problem created by fail to think. Might have not happened he ask before he moved, but he didn't ask. He young guy, talented good hands but short on knowing. Really he drywall guy tryin to be welder. Got young guy disease, jump before looking. Now he either redo or loose future work. People do lot of talking bout bad job, either way big hole in his pocket. Real hard to have experience when you just startin out. Happens to young guys cause dey conditioned to not listen.

Old guys, not to be confused wid men who did same job over & over for 40 years, seen a lot and got lot stored between ears. Old guy tells kid and right quick kid all cranked up yelling things like condescending and know it all or kid yelling "I got degree". OK, learn expensive way. Maybe you sit back after work and think how dat professor only told you what he wanted to tell. Generally professor fellow only got 1 way, and he only know dat from a book. Old fart knows de job generally got at least 3 ways and dey all work cause he learned dem, not read somebody idea what he thought he saw. (removed) is just old guy {cinch up seatbelt} veritable cornucopia of useless and quasi useless information till you need it. (removed) also looked up plenty words in Dictionary and remembered. Called Socratic learning in polite circles. (removed) even knows why Lloyd spelled dat way, old English language not have capitol letters so dey doubled up instead, works wid ffloyd too.

 

[dragoneggs]

Good stuff, (removed).