Generator Selection?

[grsthegreat]

The 10 conductor cable your seeing at zellers is the complete package product. It includes power leads and communication wires in one. I used to order 500 foot spools of the stuff directly from manufacturer for years. I no longer stock any since im basically retired.

I loved that product. The one i used was rated for 100 amps. Is trey cable and can be used anywheres. Even pulled thru studs And behind drywall inside a house. Tacked under subfloor, in conduit or direct buried.

I dont recall the cost per foot, but was no wheres near $10 per foot. But if i had to stock it, cut it, and mail it it would be.

 

[grsthegreat]

GitHub - jgyates/genmon: Generac Generator Monitoring using a Raspberry Pi and WiFi
This us the web site that talks about the system. I believe it also works with the nexus system.
Its 1000x better than Generacs mobil link system, thats probably why generac began encryption on their newer units.

i just got ahold of the guy that made my Genmon unit. he is still manufacturing them.
you can contact him at liltux@liltux.com

 

[Diggin It]

But will that work? You said the new systems are encrypted.


Clarification on the gas inlet. I opened it all up today and see the Tee and trap which leaves a 3/4 female. The flex pipe is included, loose. Part of the syetms says 'flex only', but I also remember seeing that the flex should not go through the back plane, possibly a vibration issue. Should I use a pipe stub to get through the back plane, then the flex to the supply line?

 

[grsthegreat]

Genmon will now also work on the encrypted units.

solid pipe thru rear firewall.

 

[Diggin It]

I've now talked to two different dealers, one 'select' and the other a 'power pro elite' and neither one of them seems very customer oriented. OK, I understand I didn't buy the ATS or Gen from them, but I'm trying to buy parts and service. Neither stocks parts at all and the big guy has the 10 conductor cable, but refuses to sell it. He recommends the 18/8 t-stat wire and 3/3/3/5 SEU cable. I can find that at local sources, but at a price of $8/foot or more when I can get the 10 conductor shipped for about the same price.

I'm not finding myself super thrilled with Generac.

 

[grsthegreat]

When i used to stock the 10 conductor wire i never sold it either. I had to ship in 500 or 1000 foot spools of it and needed it for my installs. Shipping is crazy expensive and a real pain on that wire. That wire, in copper, weighs alot per foot. A 500 foot spool was not moveable by hand... probably near 1300 pounds or more.

I think you stated your only running 10 feet or so. Just get some 1-1/4 carflex plastic conduit, than buy three runs of #4 copper and 1 run of #6 copper for the power runs. I never use thermostat wire, but if you want to use it, go for it. Its your unit.

you only need #4 thhn copper for up to a 16 kw generator. #3 is for 22 kw units

As for parts. I never sell install parts. I did sell complete generators snd switches. My prices were comparable to HD AND LOWES. But i could not offer military discounts. If a customer supplied unit, i could care less as long as it is sitting uncrated on slab when i arrived. If i supplied it i also set it.

Any dealer can and will supply repair parts. I stock enough to rebuild entire air cooled unit. HOWEVER i generally dont sell repair parts. I make my money installing parts, not selling them. I get calls all the time....do you have a controller for a 2010 generac. I say sure and state price. They than say, ebay has it for $50 less. They want me to sell it at or below my cost. Not going to happen. Im out 10’s of thousands of bucks stocking parts. They may sit on shelves for years till needed. I have to get a handling and shipping and stocking fee, or why bother with it. Also, if i dont have that part when called out on a service call i lose money. So its a double loss to me to sell parts.

 

[TheMan419]

I've now talked to two different dealers, one 'select' and the other a 'power pro elite' and neither one of them seems very customer oriented. OK, I understand I didn't buy the ATS or Gen from them, but I'm trying to buy parts and service. Neither stocks parts at all and the big guy has the 10 conductor cable, but refuses to sell it. He recommends the 18/8 t-stat wire and 3/3/3/5 SEU cable. I can find that at local sources, but at a price of $8/foot or more when I can get the 10 conductor shipped for about the same price.

I'm not finding myself super thrilled with Generac.

Lots of places are getting that way... you didn't buy from us then we are not helping you. Seems pretty short sighted to me. We have a local appliance store that is that way. They have a fairly good repair shop but will not repair your appliances unless you bought from them. We had a hard time with them when we needed repairs. Appliances came with the house. So we have no idea where they were bought. Finally got them to come out and take a look and do the repair. I think I will look for another company in the future for work.

 

[grsthegreat]

As a service dealer, people dont understand the costs involved. Generac requires yearly training classes. Some are online, some require air travel, hotel, transportation, food plus class fees. If you dont do this you lose your certification.

Than add the required parts inventory. The service truck. The advertising. Employees. Insurance.

If all you do is service, than you dont care where someone buys their appliance thru. However alot of people only get into service to work on things they sell. I got into generator service because my customers were having trouble finding a service tech. I didnt want to do service. I only wanted to install. At first i only serviced units i installed because the service work was taking time away from my installs...which is where the real money is.

But as i was starting to shut down my sales and install side, i started taking on all generator services. Now i do that full time.

The business evolved. Its a great retirement income.

 

[Diggin It]

I'm not asking them to sell at a discount. I don't care if they mark up a bit if it saves me shipping cost and delivery time. I even tell them I'll be using them for service and maintenance.


This second super duper pro dealer couldn't believe I got delivery in four weeks either. Says he's only getting partial shipments if any at all. Makes me think there was one on the way to this area and the buyer cancelled. Rather than take it back, they may have redirected or something.


This cable looks to be the same thing, but in black instead of orange. They're running under $8/ft shipped: 30 ft COIL- Generac Generator Standby Power Cable 3C#3+#6+6C18 XHHW/PVC 9C UL | eBay They say they'll cut a 15 ft piece but I'm waiting for price confirmation.

 

[Diggin It]

That seller is pricing it at $7.60/ft shipped. I'd appreciate it if you'd check the specs and make sure it's the right stuff.

The #4 THHN is pricing out at over a dollar a foot, so times three lengths plus the ground is over $5/ft. At that price, I'd rather have the 10 conductor so I only need one knockout in use.

 

[grsthegreat]

GENERAC COMPOSITE CABLE FOR 13-17KW HOME STANDBY GENERATORS

4/3C 8/1C 18/6C TC-ER UL1277

it has 3 of the #4 conductors in copper and 1 of the #8 in copper, plus 6 control wires.

be careful cause they also sell an aluminum version. if you go aluminum you have to upsize the wires.


if you had a 22 to 24KW unit you need the #3 copper wires.

 

[grsthegreat]

my wholesale house has #3 thhn copper for $0.62/ft.

 

[aczlan]

Looking online, it appears that you could piece the wire together at Lowes with stranded copper that is 600 volt rated for $6.04 a foot (using local prices).
If you go to a supply house, there's a good chance they could cut you pieces and have it all run out together and rolled up with the right colors and everything. Price would probably be very similar to the Lowes.

Aaron Z

 

[Diggin It]

GENERAC COMPOSITE CABLE FOR 13-17KW HOME STANDBY GENERATORS

4/3C 8/1C 18/6C TC-ER UL1277

it has 3 of the #4 conductors in copper and 1 of the #8 in copper, plus 6 control wires.

be careful cause they also sell an aluminum version. if you go aluminum you have to upsize the wires.

The listing I quoted above shows 3 #3s, 1 #6 and 6 #18, all copper.

 

[grsthegreat]

The listing I quoted above shows 3 #3s, 1 #6 and 6 #18, all copper.

thats even better. thats for the 22 & 24 KW units, but it never hurts to go bigger. i only stocked the 22KW cablew myself and used it on the smaller units i installed. im just saying you dont have to go that large.

more than likely they only stock the one size also. those rolls of wire take up alot of space.


one thing i SURE DONT miss is storing generators.

 

[Diggin It]

Also, this super elite pro dealer I talked to today mentioned having to run another line for the T1 battery charger connections. I asked him to clarify since I thought it was in the multi cable, but he insisted it was something separate for the battery charger to work. Said I'd see it called out in the install manual. I'm looking at it now and it looks like the blue wire does that.

 

[grsthegreat]

what? you run 6 control wires out to the unit. the blue T1 wire controls the power for the controller. you dont need to run anything except the 10 conductor control wire for an air cooled unit. the liquid cooled units need 2 additional separate 120V circuits run in addition to the 10 conductor cable.

control wires N1 & N2 yellow for sencing circuits
t1 blue for controller power
the other 3 are 12VDC transfer controls. Black (wire 0 ), Red (wire 194) and white (wire 23)

 

[Diggin It]

That's what I thought, but I asked him twice because I thought I misheard.

 

[Diggin It]

This is what that listing shows. I just need to be sure before I spend (another) $100

Specifications

Type: Power Composite Installation Cable - TC-ER (Exposed Run)

600 Volts, 90°C dry, 75° wet

TFFN Conductors (PVC/Nylon)

PVC Jacket

UL Listed 1277 Type TC-ER

FT4 / IEEE 1202, Sunlight Resistant, Direct Burial

This specification covers the construction requirements of multi-conductor power cables in accordance with UL, Inc. Standard 1277, (UL) Listed as Type TC-ER. (Exposed Run)

The construction consists of stranded, bare copper conductors with Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) insulation and nylon jacket. The conductors are cabled together and have a sunlight resistant, Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) jacket. - Sequential Marking

Use

These cables are suitable for use installed in cable trays and raceways or when supported by a messenger wire. Voltage ratings not to exceeding 600 volts and conductor temperatures not to exceed 90°C dry or 75°C wet.

Cables pass the UL 1277 Vertical Tray Flame Test and the IEEE 1202/FT4 flame test.

Size: 10 Conductors

Diameter: 1.024"

Area: .823 in2



- Conductor: Stranded Bare Annealed Copper made in Accordance with ASTM B-3, B-8, and B-174

- Primary Insulation: The conductors are UL Type TFFN (18 AWG) Type THHN/THWN (3 AWG, 6 AWG) per UL 66 with a PVC insulation and Nylon jacket

- Control Wire: The insulation shall be colored as follows: 1 Black, 1 Red, 1 Yellow, 1 Yellow/Black, 1 Blue, 1 Red, 1 White

- Generator Wires: 1 Black, 1 Red, 1 White, 1 Green

- Cable Assembly: The insulated conductors are cabled together with fillers as necessary

- Overall Jacket: A flame resistant and sunlight resistant PVC jacket is applied to the overall construction

- Cable Identification: Type: Surface print on jacket

Ink

Color: White

Legend: POWER & CONTROL TRAY CABLE 3 AWG (26.67mm2) 3/C & 6 AWG (13.3mm2) 1/GRND & 18 AWG (.82mm2) 6/C TC-ER E###### (UL) 600V 90C DRY/75C WET OIL RES I SUNLIGHT RESISTANT DIRECT BURIAL

Propane companies are giving me fits too. 'Too busy', 'ground is too soft', etc.

 

[grsthegreat]

welcome to the world of generators. last year you could not even find a propane tank here in Idaho.