Generator Selection?

[Diggin It]

Well, it's down, in place. Box template worked out OK for the studs. One must have been slightly tilted before the concrete set because it was off just a bit, but not enough to matter. Still thinking about the fascia kit, but I may just caulk around the base for now to help keep small bugs out.

I sloped the pad just slightly for drainage and a 4' level set across the top (under the cover) is less than a half bubble off which is less than I am.

 

[grsthegreat]

you can also just order 4 oblong plugs for the holes. correct part # A0000247108 for Bisque; A0000247111 for industrial grey (honeywell grey); A0000247112 for standard grey.

 

[Diggin It]

Am I correct in thinking that the N1, N2 and T1 terminals on the controller in the ATS are hot and that I need to turn power off before connecting to them?

 

[grsthegreat]

they are hot. yes. dont connect the ones in transfer switch until AFTER the generator side is landed. the correct procedure is all power off. generator battery ground unhooked. hook up positive side of battery (so it cant short out). land all 6 generator wires. then land all transfer switch wires. then connect ground on battery. then repower the transfer switch.

now, if you have the newest version of the transfer switch. there is a molex connector on the SACM board. If you simply unplug this you are killing all N1, N2 and T1 power to generator. you wont need to kill house power.

 

[Diggin It]

Guess I'm OK then:

Ordered a piece of the cable, probably a week or more for arrival. Not sure when I'll get a battery and don't want to apply power of any kind until I get closer to install/activation. Will have to wait to work out a fuel supply first and that could be a month or more. Guess I could make the connections and leave that Molex unplugged.

 

[Diggin It]

Main cable installed:

Stuff's kind of a pain to use. The control wires on this end need to be about an inch or two longer than the power wires and maybe a foot longer at the ATS end. That means you have to allow for those when cutting and stripping the main cable and cut the power wires shorter. Not a big deal except that they're kind of a pain to cut and bend due to their size.


There are about 6 or 8 strain relief messengers built in that I haven't snipped off yet. There's also a fiberglass matting wrapped around the wire bundle under the black outer sheath.

 

[Diggin It]

Finished the last bit of the gas line today. All set to fire up ... I think.

Now I need to find out if I can get the local dealer out this week for a reasonable rate to do the final checkout and initial start up.

If they won't cooperate, I guess I'll have to tackle it myself. They keep telling me something about no factory warranty if they don't do it, but I'm not sure if that's true. I don't see anything in any of the paper work to that effect.

 

[grsthegreat]

You don’t need any company to start it and keep warranty. Warranty starts as soon as you register it. Anyone can register it.

ive done warranty repairs on owner installed units. The only thing that won’t be covered is any damage done to the unit thru improper installation.

 

[Sigarms]

Cant agree more. But everything is complicated.

Just to remember to blame the government with their regulations as much as the manufacturer, perhaps the government even more LOL

 

[BrkMstr]

Finished the last bit of the gas line today. All set to fire up ... I think.

Now I need to find out if I can get the local dealer out this week for a reasonable rate to do the final checkout and initial start up.

If they won't cooperate, I guess I'll have to tackle it myself. They keep telling me something about no factory warranty if they don't do it, but I'm not sure if that's true. I don't see anything in any of the paper work to that effect.

I had the electric company that sold my unit it install it and the gas company installed the tank and then did the line / propane hook up - nothing could be fired until the Fire Inspector showed up with a permit - he looked at it and had them add a brace on the line, then approved and issued the permit - I put in an underground 500 gal tank so after he inspected I buried it and it's been doing its job since - does you're area require FD inspection, Election inspection etc....

 

[Diggin It]

No inspections here other than when I had them pull the meter so I could add a service disconnect switch. That was $75 and took about two hours, most of which was waiting for the inspector to arrive. I only did that so I could turn power off and on as needed while doing other things so I wouldn't have to have them pull the meter more than once.

 

[Diggin It]

Local dealer now says if they get to a self-install and find something that isn't right, they won't start it.

What kinds of things would make a dealer refuse to start one? I'd like some ideas of what they look at so I can be prepared.

 

[grsthegreat]

It has to be installed per code. Such as distances from gas source, window openings, etc. control wires all have to be correct. I have come upon jobs with burnt controllers...brand new units, where all black wires were run to controls. They crossed connected controls and burnt controller. I will not fix this under warranty. GENERAC should not have to cover costs because some idiot can’t be bothered to purchase colored wires.

incorrect gas piping sizes are another thing I see. People running 70 feet of 3/4” pipe to the natural gas meter and thinking the old 250cfm meter will supply the existing house and a nearly 400,000 btu generator. All these things will not let a generator perform correctly.

 

[Diggin It]

There are no codes here. Gas supplier has seen the install and made no objections. I had specifically asked them about distance to the second stage regulator and they said they have no issue. They also said no problems at the tank end from the first stage regulator to the 3/4" underground. I got about 11.5 WC on the low pressure side of the regulator about 5' from the unit.

It's setting about 30" from the wall, maybe more. There are windows, but they should be at or beyond the 5' distance mentioned in the install manual. One issue might be the vents in the concrete block foundation, but I plan to cover those when it's running.

Cable is the special 10 conductor in the pictures above.

 

[grsthegreat]

Inspectors allow (at least here) you to seal a crawl space vent with a Permanent sheetmetal plate and silicon to prevent exhaust entering crawlspace. They do NOT allow someone to place a seal on an opening when unit is running. Again, this is an auto start unit. What happens when no one is around.
as long as the windows are 5 feet away, sounds good.

 

[Diggin It]

I covered the vents with tin this morning.

This dealer isn't giving me a real warm fuzzy though. The guy I've been talking to hasn't been real good at returning emails and phone calls. He keeps telling me they don't stock any parts, yet they're the warranty service point for all of the retail sellers here including the big box stores. That just seems a bit off to me.

Now, he says he can't answer my last question until the service tech gets in later today.

I may scrap them altogether and start it myself if I don't start getting some better information.

I'm personally not at all concerned with clearances. I'm the only one ever here and I'll take whatever precautions are necessary when the time comes if it needs to run for any period of time. I've even planned on having a fan in the area to blow air away from the house any time it's running.

But I can't pay for a service call and have them refuse on a technicality.

 

[grsthegreat]

Warranty on air cooled does not require a service dealer startup. But if something fails on unit , free warranty may not be accepted if the failure was caused by improper installation.

 

[Diggin It]

Rapidly losing faith in this dealer.

One guy quotes me a price on a battery (written , in email), but doesn't know what brand. I finally get the install tech (yes, only one apparently) on the phone and ask him about it. His price is double what the sales guy quoted, and he still can't quote a specific brand..

Tech asks for pictures, so I send him a few. Today, he says something about only seeing one cable and asks why I ran the control cables in the same tube. I tell him it's factory made that way for this application, all in one, rated for exposed runs. He claims he's never heard of that. 'We'll have to look that up and see the ratings.'

Some of the questions he asks make it seem like he's trying to apply commercial/manufacturing plant/heavy industrial criteria.


I'm not concerned with the electrical connections. I know all of that works. I've tested the transfer switch functions manually with a portable generator hooked into the E1/E2 lugs. What I don't know is if the SACM works and will engage the transfer when called for.

All I'm concerned with is that the engine starts and runs the first time. Things can fail out of box through no fault of the customer.

There are several points in the startup procedures that mention doing gas pressure tests at different times. I bought a manometer, but I'm not proficient with it.

It seems like a fairly simple procedure, but with many steps. I'd just rather have somebody do it that's done it before instead of my 'first time'. But I'm about tired of begging these guys and am wondering what will happen a year or two from now when something acts up.

 

[grsthegreat]

very odd. even if it wasnt an all in one cable, as long as control wires are rated at 600 volts they can run in same conduit as power legs. i cant believe they have not heard of 10 10 conductor cables. they have been out for many years.

is there any other companies near you to check with? Napa sells a group 26 battery. i stock Exide units myself.

 

[Diggin It]

One other about 50 miles away, but they gave me some trouble too. Refused to even quote prices. Then they want a $125 travel charge regardless of anything else.

Supposed to be a third one according to the dealer locator, but they seem to be an HVAC outfit selling generators on the side. Not sure they even have service.


RK has a 26R battery for $52 but I don't know who makes theirs.