A newbies DIY solar install

[LD1]

Are you sure about your scenario, if you solar is producing and your using it your grid meter would not be turning.

Yes the best way to use net metering solar is to use what you are producing or charging batteries during the day.

Mine is like $0.11 savings when using solar and $.04 when spinning meter backwards.

Look for other public monies that might be available in your county or state grants, my state grant saved me another 40%.

Cost of my system was 27K with 9K federal tax rebate and 11K IL Shines grant. My electric bill has been saving or is about $200 a month lower before solar install. My payback is at 3 years.

Dave

Yes I was sure. IF you are using your solar electric....their meter isnt spinning. Meaning for every kwh you make and use is saving one kwh at retail rate from them. (net metering).

The problem I was eluding to was during the day when Im not using much electric and the panels are pumping a ton out....Im selling that electric for $0.05/kwh. Then come home at night when the sun is down and consume electric....spin their meter at the tune of $0.14/kwh. There is no meter to spin backwards. There is two meters....theirs and yours. IF yours spins, its putting back on the grid at the 5 cents. IF theirs spins you are buying it for 14 cents.

The only way to get a "net metering effect" is to use your electric BEFORE it goes to the grid...hence the time of day when you consume power became important.

Thats how it has always been with my power company. However...they seem to have made some changes (See my previous post) that they are doing a limited net metering now. So some phone calls to see if I am in an area that qualifies is in order. Because they ultimately have the right to refuse a gridtied system or net metering.

 

[JasperFrank]

https://freedomforever.com/blog/ev-power-a-home/

Excuse the fact that this web site is an ad. I'm pointing to it just to introduce a concept that anyone starting out on a Solar Project should seriously consider.

 

[deezler]

Yeah Jasper, it's a solid concept. I have an early reservation in on the electric F150 Lightning, and am considering stretching my funds to buy a base model depending on what the government does with EV subsidies before I would be paying for it. The battery is huge and could power my house for a few days during an extended outage, no problem.

 

[jk96]

Everytime solar comes up I always get the bug to start researching and see whats out there, and if there have been any major changes since last time I decided to look.

Did you end up doing the install yourself?

I know earlier you were talking about the whole system being in the ~$0.75/watt price range. Did you still end at or near that?

I have looked at alot of the DIY kits and it seems everything is double that. Like 24.9k "kits" are $35k-$40k just for the kit.

I average 1800kwh/month. With the three coldest months, jan-mar being ~2300. And as low as 1300 spring and fall. So if you believe the "monthly output" advertisement. Id be looking for a 12.5kw system. but all I am seeing is $20k+

There are alot of companies that advertise for installing solar....no money down....bad credit, etc. And there are alot of websites selling DIY kits. Kinda seems a nightmare separating the wheat from the chaff to know what is a good deal and want is marketing to make someone else rich. Like its hard to know who/what to trust when reading about solar.

Install was done myself. I greatly underestimated the price of all of the additional components (3" galv pipe, disconnects, wire, conduit, etc). Conduit really surprised me on how much 2.5" pvc ran. All in and after the federal tax rebate I ended up at .93/cents a watt. Still pretty good and puts my payback at around the end of year 5. I ordered the panels, inverters, rapid shutdowns, racking system rails and components through thepowerstore.com Sourced my 3" galvanized pipe, service panel, disconnects, wire, locally.

 

[jk96]

Was it your cousins fault, or did he have it all installed by someone? What a gut punch.

His fault. He did a self install same as I did. I even loaned him my ft/lb and inch/lb torque wrenches and gave him the iron ridge specs for all of the torque values. Not sure how he missed that.

 

[4570Man]

Im not too keen on batteries. If I did anything it would be grid tie and grid tie alone.

I do have a bit of renewed interest in solar, and need to call the power company because it seems they have made some changes with their net metering policy.

IT seems they DO offer net metering in a limited way. Direct quote from them

It seems there interest is to maintain balance. Allow some of those that want solar to reap the benefits, but trying to maintain the peace by keeping everyone elses rates low as well. Literally, if EVERYONE would install solar....there would be no paying customers left to support the paychecks of the linemen and general maintenance of the grid....so I understand.

They do give an example

So it would be possible to have a $0 bill. But I would have to make enough electric for myself, as well as enough surplus every month at the avoided cost rate (~$0.05) to cover the $50 meter fee.

I have yet to try and figure how all this applies when some months I use as much as 2300 and other months as little as 1300. My average being 1800. Seems I would either be banking credits at $0.05/kwh....or not making enough electric and having to buy the difference at $0.14/kwh....ugh.

To further compound matters.....my shop is on a different meter. But same account. So dont know what if anything they could do about that. I average only about 300kwh/month at the shop.

I just need to talk to someone local, familiar with solar in this area and dealing with my power company. But circle back to who/what do you trust

They don’t pay you very much for electric. Not saying it should be different because I understand they have a lot of grid related expenses just saying that’s how it is. If you could get your energy storage bank to be half way efficient to avoid buying anything from the grid you would be better off.

 

[ning]

I would definitely have preferred it if the economics didn't favor solar energy here, grid-tie or otherwise -- that would mean that the cost of electricity was sufficiently low that it didn't pay to have it. However, our charges are so high, that it's close to a no-brainer to have it now.

 

[LD1]

Well....(sorry for hijacking).....I made some calls to my electric company today and some disappointing news but some info to share.

For starters, I created a spreadsheet for the last 12 months. And in the last 12 months I have used 21335 kwh and my total bill for the year was $2394.

Average that out and I arrive at 1650kwh per month usage. So that would be my "target" to install a system that would generate that per month.

Issue ONE is fluctuation. I have had months as low as 1300kwh, and months as high as 2300kwh. So in the cold winter months I would fall ~500kwh short of what I need with a system designed for 1780kwh/month. And in other months Id be making a ~500kwh surplus. The problem is the surplus is NOT a 1:1 credit. Any surplus above and beyond a given months bill is credited at $0.021/kwh.

So using my spreadsheet.....and based on the last 12 months...6 months I would have a surplus totaling 1980kwh....crediting me $41.58. But the other 6 months Id have ~1955kwh shortage....that I would have to purchase....at $0.109/kwh. OR a total of $213. So even though I make slightly more than I would use in a calendar year....just based on fluctuation.....Id be $171.42 in the hole to buy electric.

Now all of this sounds fine....except.....there is a $57 per month solar charge that will NEVER go away no matter how much solar I make or credits I build. This is a fixed cost and is actually $10/month higher than the current service charge simply for having solar.

So add in $57 x 12 months.....thats $684/month.

In summary....to install a solar capable of producing 100% of the electric I need (but just not at the right time)....I would still owe $855/year.

So....my maximum "net" savings is only a tad over $1500/year. So unless I can install a 12kw system for under $15k....Im still exceeding a 10 year ROI.

And then there is my shop, which is on a separate meter. I only use ~300kwh/month down there. And That was one of my questions to the power company is if that is treated totally separate. And yes it is. And since my normal bill down there is only ~$70-$80 a month......going to solar down there (since it cannot be combined with the house) would only stand to save me $20-$25/month since I would STILL have a $57 bill no matter what. Saving $300/year on a $5000 solar install isnt great ROI either

 

[jk96]

Well....(sorry for hijacking).....I made some calls to my electric company today and some disappointing news but some info to share.

For starters, I created a spreadsheet for the last 12 months. And in the last 12 months I have used 21335 kwh and my total bill for the year was $2394.

Average that out and I arrive at 1650kwh per month usage. So that would be my "target" to install a system that would generate that per month.

Issue ONE is fluctuation. I have had months as low as 1300kwh, and months as high as 2300kwh. So in the cold winter months I would fall ~500kwh short of what I need with a system designed for 1780kwh/month. And in other months Id be making a ~500kwh surplus. The problem is the surplus is NOT a 1:1 credit. Any surplus above and beyond a given months bill is credited at $0.021/kwh.

So using my spreadsheet.....and based on the last 12 months...6 months I would have a surplus totaling 1980kwh....crediting me $41.58. But the other 6 months Id have ~1955kwh shortage....that I would have to purchase....at $0.109/kwh. OR a total of $213. So even though I make slightly more than I would use in a calendar year....just based on fluctuation.....Id be $171.42 in the hole to buy electric.

Now all of this sounds fine....except.....there is a $57 per month solar charge that will NEVER go away no matter how much solar I make or credits I build. This is a fixed cost and is actually $10/month higher than the current service charge simply for having solar.

So add in $57 x 12 months.....thats $684/month.

In summary....to install a solar capable of producing 100% of the electric I need (but just not at the right time)....I would still owe $855/year.

So....my maximum "net" savings is only a tad over $1500/year. So unless I can install a 12kw system for under $15k....Im still exceeding a 10 year ROI.

And then there is my shop, which is on a separate meter. I only use ~300kwh/month down there. And That was one of my questions to the power company is if that is treated totally separate. And yes it is. And since my normal bill down there is only ~$70-$80 a month......going to solar down there (since it cannot be combined with the house) would only stand to save me $20-$25/month since I would STILL have a $57 bill no matter what. Saving $300/year on a $5000 solar install isnt great ROI either

Your $684/year should actually be $120 I would think as solar only ads $10/month. Sounds like your paying $47/month already solar or no solar.

 

[LD1]

Your $684/year should actually be $120 I would think as solar only ads $10/month. Sounds like your paying $47/month already solar or no solar.

Yes, solar only adds $10/month....but I was figuring the total charge.

My figures were Dec 20 to Nov 21.

In those 12 months I used 21335 kwh.....and I paid $2394 for that.

IF I had a solar installed in those SAME 12 months....capable of averaging 1780kwh/month.....I would have STILL paid $684 ($57x12) plus the $171 bought from the power company on the months I would have been short

The only way NOT to be short would be size the system bigger, to handle the peak months....then give then the surplus. But there is NO WAY to get around paying them the $684 per year no matter what.

Thus....I only stand to save ~$1500/year with a 12-13kw system by my math.

So for the purpose of how I have if figured....I need to account for the WHOLE $57 per month...not just the increase of $10/month since the $47 I am already paying was already figured in my yearly total of $2394