Building my Fence

[ovrszd]

Robbed this statement from RancherGuy's post:

The diagonal wire is only to assure that the shape of the H (or square if constructed that way) remains unchanged.

While it's a true statement it tends to indicate the diagonal wire has minimal effect. On the contrary. With a H design the diagonal bracing is the most important piece. Actually it's the only effective thing about H design. Going back to Eddie's comment about the strongest thing is a triangle. Without it you have minimal bracing at the corner.

I don't think RancherGuy intended to indicate minimal effect. Just how the words came out.

As to the pics of the "professional corners". They shoved slick pipe in the ground with the FEL bucket and tied a fence to it. Never had a chance. If set in concrete the outcome would have been much better.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm home with Covid for the second time, so I apologize for being so argumentative. I really appreciate everyone that takes the time to comment and offer suggestions and advice. I've never been the smartest person, so I rely on others for what they know and what they are willing to share.

My wife just told me that I need to find something to do and get off the computer. LOL At least this time is nothing close to what it was like when we had it a year ago.

 

[RancherGuy]

I understand your point, but I disagree on the fulcrum comparison.

You seem to be very observant. I'm trying to present some content that you may not have considered. If you understand the forces involved, you understand that the crew filling around posts with concrete will help for a very short period of time - depends on how much they tighten the fence wires because the concrete does not weigh enough to have an impact. If you have observed loose H wires and bowed cross beams, then I'd assume the builder was only trying to imitate someone else and did not understand the design. For example I have seen the horizontal for H placed 2 feet above the ground (like a true H character), whereas the best location is near the top. When placed in the center, the compression on the horizontal is doubled and the verticals are exposed to bending forces - which could allow the diagonal wire to loosen as the post(s) warp.

As for the fulcrum issue, try this. Make up two 2x4s that simulate your post and diagonal. Don't have to be full size, but should be in the same ratio you are using. Bolt/nail them together. Dig two holes and put them in the ground. Pack the ground somewhat loosely because you do not want either to actually break. Pull/push horizontally on the "post". Note that the diagonal will not move, but the post will lift. This is the fulcrum concept.

Stay safe and best wishes on your project.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm home with Covid for the second time, so I apologize for being so argumentative. I really appreciate everyone that takes the time to comment and offer suggestions and advice. I've never been the smartest person, so I rely on others for what they know and what they are willing to share.

My wife just told me that I need to find something to do and get off the computer. LOL At least this time is nothing close to what it was like when we had it a year ago.

You aren't being argumentative at all. This is a great discussion with a LOT of information. Anybody that takes the time to sort thru this will learn something.

Good luck with the Covid Eddie!!!

 

[RancherGuy]

Fulcrum Concept

I'm not giving up yet! I have another example of the situation. This represents the diagonal brace and post design:

You are correct that triangles are strong. In the above, each of the 3 segments cannot change length: a-b is the ground, b-c is the post, a-c is the diagonal brace.

Imagine that this is on wood. Nail a brad at locations (a) and (b). Each brad represents burial of the post/pole. If you apply horizontal tension such as a wire on point (c), what will happen? The brads will not shear. If the tension is enough, the brad at location (b) will pull out. Point (a) represents the fulcrum. This model represents the lifting force on an end or corner post.

The only reason a wooden post stays in place is by post-soil friction. If the friction is overcome, even gradually due to weather and moisture changes, the post lifts.

As stated earlier, if the distance between (a) and (b) is increased, the leverage to lift the post is reduced. This is why the "H" design works - the distance of a-b can be increased to reduce the lifting force so the post's friction is not compromised. Perhaps you have even seen double-H implementations for ground that is low friction (wet?), or they want to apply a lot of wire tension.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm not giving up yet!!!

The second post and the horizontal brace in the H design do nothing without the angle brace.

H design is used most in my area. Knowing the angle brace is key to success.

I've not saw it done like Eddie is doing it. I have no experience to base it's success on.

But then,,,, here in the great State of Missouri,,, we would cut the verticals on the woven wire and wrap all the way around the post tying each horizontal wire back onto itself. Same with barbed wire. The staples only keep the wire from sliding up/down the post.

 

[grsthegreat]

My fence corners have always been 3 - 6x6 posts, 8 feet long set about 6 feet apart to make up the angle. I notch these About 6” from the top, and insert brace. Then an X made out of barbless wire. Then i twist the X as tight as possible.

i learned this method many moons ago. My fences at my house are over 24 years old, and still standing good.

 

[dodge man]

Eddie I’ve seen people in my area do the corners similar to your but the diagonal brace ties into a post down low instead of being buried in concrete.

 

[RUSTBUCKET BRONCO]

Not going to get into what type of bracing is best. But I like the five strand high tensile electric fence. My goats have never got out after I put them in the training area
for a week they all get used to the fence and never challenge it. But this fence is just to keep livestock in. It doesn't do anything for coyotes and for sure wouldn't
stop a wild hog. I don't like barb wire. My neighbors horse got caught up in the barb wire and just tore its leg wide open, the vet bill was huge he said.

 

[Smokeydog]

For the 15 acre goat pasture ran woven wire with non high tensile barb wire on top. Steep rough ground surrounding some kudzu. Dehorned all my goats. They could reach thru and kept the fence rows clean. A Great Pyrenees protected against coyotes and domestic dogs. Also put horses in there too and with barn run in stalls for goat only. Goats improved the pasture and cleared the woods. With some help eliminated the kudzu, multiflora rose, privet, honeysuckle and autumn olive.