Why are my loader cylinders out of sync?

[ericm979]

Is there a tube between the two sides of the SSQA?

 

[Xfaxman]

plowhog, It is easy to see that your cross tube is twisted:

 

[DK35vince]

Your loader arms are fine, that torque tube is twisted.
It's an easy cheap fix.

 

[52wej]

Yes twisted torque tube. As others said, cut it and reweld. I had that happen on a Kubota MX 5200, welded and reinforced it with angle iron. Works fine now. W. Jones

 

[loggin]

I actually don't see a torque tube for the QA in the OP's photo. Hard to tell from the angle of the pic if there is a frame between the two sides of the QA or if they are independent. A beeter angle might tell a different story? Also wondering if those are aftermarket cylinders?

Perhaps The OP can supply us with additional pics.

 

[loggin]

I checked the loader arms, torque tube, etc. I cannot find anything that looks bent or twisted. I'm not sure what exactly to look for other than general alignment. I did put a straight edge along the torque tube, on top and also on the side. It was plumb and not bent. Are there better ways to check for a bent loader arm?

Here is a pix of the two SSQA plates that are misaligned. btw, I measured the "chrome" part of the cylinder that is showing when this pix was taken. It's 2 7/8" of chrome on one side, and 3 1/2" of chrome on the other side. I kind of suspect that is where the problem is, but I don't really know. Seems one cylinder is extending more than the other.

Again, at full travel, both cylinders retract fully, and at full extension, one extends 1/4" longer than the other. So at max travel I have only 1/4" difference, but in this photo, with only partial travel, I have 5/8" difference.

???

I actually don't see a torque tube for the QA in the OP's photo. Hard to tell from the angle of the pic if there is a frame between the two sides of the QA or if they are independent. A beeter angle might tell a different story? Also wondering if those are aftermarket cylinders?

Perhaps The OP can supply us with additional pics.

 

[TMGT]

I actually don't see a torque tube for the QA in the OP's photo. Hard to tell from the angle of the pic if there is a frame between the two sides of the QA or if they are independent. A beeter angle might tell a different story? Also wondering if those are aftermarket cylinders?

Perhaps The OP can supply us with additional pics.

The torque bar is just below the pins on the QA, appears to be a solid bar.

With only that much bend it shouldn't be an issue to bend it back, no cutting necessary hopefully.
My skid steer has a bolt on tube, real easy to fix if it gets out of sync!

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using TractorByNet mobile app

 

[Fladogman]

Sounds like the cross member between the lift arms at the quick connect have twisted. It happened to me once when my grapple came loose from one side. I cut the bent tubing out and replaced it with a solid steel bar.
Fladogman

nice job on that. the only caveat might be that should the same scenario happen again, under full load, the arms themselves could be at risk for being bent rather than the tube. structurally, if the solid bar were the best design, K would have designed it that way? just a thought, again, good weld up job

I had the option of making it weaker by adding a smaller diameter tube or making it stronger by going solid steel, I chose the latter. Mine twisted right at the end so trying to weld on to it was questionable. So far it's been good, time will tell. Worse case scenario I have to replace the ssqa.

 

[Fladogman]

I like the bright "don't forgetem" paint on the quick attach levers.

Thanks, a limb had come through the grapple and pushed the lever up. I didn't notice it until it was too late. Now I can't miss them lol.

 

[Fladogman]

plowhog, It is easy to see that your cross tube is twisted:

View attachment 731625

I agree. It doesn't take much of a twist to get it out of alignment. Mine was six inches out and you had to look close to see it.

 

[Smokeydog]

Mow with the bucket off on the B26. Concerned the first could of the times when the torque tube bent. Easy to straighten pushing on a tree. Wife may had tried to push some limbs into the woods with ssqa. The torque tube is kinda flimsy compared to the rest of tractor. No problems when connected to a bucket or grapple. If it ever breaks will make it stronger.

 

[Kschwennsen]

I don't have the same issue but mine is similar. Sometimes when I'm lifting the FEL without an attachment, one side will lag behind until it gets to full extention and then the lagging one catches up. Or it straightens out when I'm hooking up to an attachment. Is there some Hydralic check valve that isn't working or something? I noticed it more this summer but not much over the last couple of years prior.

Thoughts?

 

[npalen]

Some QA torque tubes are made wimpy and twist easy for only 2 reasons, cost and weight. Making them stronger and less like to get twisted/bent will not hurt the loader arms. (The QA tube can't flex/twist when hooked into a bucket)
My QA torque section is built much more solid than a hollow tube, strong enough I welded chain hooks to it and use it for lifting with no fear of twisting a torque tube.

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Might think of the torque tube as a "shear-pin" but a bit more difficult to "replace" after an incident. The SSQA with the plate going clear across between the loader arms makes a lot of sense both from a strength standpoint as well as automatically aligning both ends when attaching to a bucket.

I really don't understand the idea of separate ends for other than detrimental cost savings. The two ends will always tend to be out of sync when unattached to a bucket due to hydraulics taking the path of least resistance.

 

[Xfaxman]

Thoughts?

Need pictures please.

Sometimes when I'm lifting the FEL without an attachment, one side will lag behind until it gets to full extention and then the lagging one catches up.

One side of the FEL?
Or one side of the QA?

 

[JWR]

plowhog, It is easy to see that your cross tube is twisted:

View attachment 731625

Quite true. Whether we can see his torque tube or not, whatever is between the two shoes has to be, and is, twisted. Here is a picture below of my torque tube that goes on an SSQA for a Massey DL250 loader. [Black, with white shipping labels.] Since you cannot see the shoes mating with the attachments from the driver's seat I once caught the left side shoe under the lip of a 1000lb bucket and lifted it with the right one unknowingly not engaged. It bent this square torque tubing so badly I just replaced it since I lack a welder and fabrication tools.

So what the OP needs to do is to get the torque tube straightened (whether cut and rewelded or whatever. If I were you, I would reinforce the tube or replace it with one twice the diameter/thickness.) Once the tube is straight and the two shoes line up at the same vertical angle, his hyd cylinder will have the same "amount of shiny cylinder shaft exposed." The cylinders share equal hyd pressure via a common fitting and are NOT part of the problem. The cylinders are just along for the ride. A big waste of time to worry over or investigate the cylinders.

BUT the plot can thicken (and maybe has in the OP case...??) Besides the obvious torque tube twist, you MAY have a a slightly sprung loader frame. They are very hard to diagnose. Best I can suggest is find a perfectly flat concrete pad, make sure tire pressures are not radically different side to side, and then measure the vertical distance from the concrete to the bottom edge of steel where that 2.5 or 3" cross tube is in your loader frame -- whatever reference point is identical on both sides of the frame. One of those bolt heads? Whatever. If there is more than a half inch or so difference side to side you have a sprung loader frame. [I forgot if you measured this and told us before??] One visual (after fixing the torque tube) is to put a wide attachment with a flat top like a bucket on the loader frame and raise it to where you can barely see the top of the bucket on the far left or right from the drivers seat. At that point you should be able to see any significant twist in the loader frame. If you can't, it isn't worth worrying about.

Yes, I have unfortunate experience there. Involves an old locust tree stump. Suffice it to say the corner of a wide bucket is not the best thing to put huge lifting forces on, full power, 4WD, low gear, etc. You can bend a loader frame... and none of the loader manufacturers specify ANYTHING about torque on their products. Neither does the national tractor testing lab in Nebraska test for any such unlisted specs. If you can't/don't want to live with a sprung loader frame, you have a couple of options which I have described in a post here several years back. 1) You can spend upwards of $500 in a frame straightening rig at a big well equipped auto body shop (plus getting the thing off and back on...) or 2) You can go reverse spring it yourself until it is level. I did number 2 and it works as long as you agree with yourself to take the risk.

These loader frames combined with how they are mounted to the tractors make for a much more complex structure than the average owner might imagine. The quick detach loader mounts have tolerances and slop in them. You probably cannot see nor measure slight differences side to side. Even when very careful inspection shows NO welds broken and no bowing or bulging, etc. these issues are very had to find or see. Bolts may have given way slightly on one side or the other, etc. There are a good 4 or 5 places at least where mounting dimensions can be off in one direction due to loader frame torque. All 4 or 5 may look OK and not appear to be out of whack from one side to the other, yet they all add up sequentially in one direction in a sprung loader frame.

Hopefully the OP will find his loader frame acceptably level/equal left and right and all he has to do is fix or replace the SSQA torque tube.
Good luck. Let us know the outcome.

 

[lpakiz]

I must have the only orphan SSQA ever made.
Even in this brutal cold weather (0*F) I can simply push one side back, by hand, and the other side comes forward. Pushing on one side forces oil out of one cylinder and into the other. Of curse, the bucket or forks are assumed to be de-mounted.
In other words, my left and right SSQA attaching arms are completely independent of each other, and will float to wherever they need to, to be flush with the backside of the bucket or forks.

 

[Xfaxman]

In other words, my left and right SSQA attaching arms are completely independent of each other, and will float to wherever they need to, to be flush with the backside of the bucket or forks.

That works also, just gently push against the backside of the attachment and they will line up to be latched.

 

[airbiscuit]

Would it be easier to use shims between the bump stops where the white arrow is pointing, then apply pressure in the dump direction? There will likely be "spring-back" so increasing shim thickness till it remains even when the pressure is released?

hi folks..gravelman here..i put in a shim on one side...fully rolled out bucket arms...it worked... thanks for that advice...

It is a common problem, many threads about it.
Here is one, easy to realign the QA using a shim: Bonehead Move, Need Advice, Loader Quick Attach won't hold

View attachment 731613

 

[Henro]

Just checked the cylinders. The right cylinder at full extension is 1/4" longer than the left. I don't know what acceptable tolerances are but that doesn't seem to be enough to cause the problem.

I will go carefully inspect the torque tube ...

I doubt 1/4" difference between cylinders is acceptable. Surprised nobody picked up on this...or if they did I missed it.

What I would probably do is take the pins out of the cylinders at the bucket end and fully extend the cylinders, and measure them. ONLY to eliminate a possible issue with one of the cylinders. Simple enough to do.

Do agree that you probably bent something. But in my case I like to eliminate possibilities if I can. And deal with what is left.

 

[JWR]

I must have the only orphan SSQA ever made.
Even in this brutal cold weather (0*F) I can simply push one side back, by hand, and the other side comes forward. Pushing on one side forces oil out of one cylinder and into the other. Of curse, the bucket or forks are assumed to be de-mounted.
In other words, my left and right SSQA attaching arms are completely independent of each other, and will float to wherever they need to, to be flush with the backside of the bucket or forks.

So your SSQA attachment on the loader lacks a torque tube between left and right. I've not seen a MF loader SSQA (in the last 15 years) without a torque tube between left and right. Some more stout than others. Notice this one below is a strong looking welded tube.

Just an opinion: I think that Massey was late coming around to having SSQA's for their loaders and giving in to the obvious truth that skid-steer compatibility is a good long-term advantage to most owners. In the Massey migration to installing SSQAs, I feel they were relatively weak and reflected a reluctance on the part of MF to do it. Dragging feet. Contrast that to Kubota who was way out front in equipping their loaders with skid-steer compatible interfaces long before the rest AND much stronger and looking like it was designed-in too.