DPF Regeneration driving me crazy...

[jyoutz]

I'm not debating the science just the "cart before the horse solutions"....

in which governments politicize, cater to special interests, and leave the middle class with the expense and blame. Viable economies were built on fossil fuels, so if you just turn it off (as in the US today) the majority of citizens suffer greatly. But lets be clear, the ruling class elites and their government cohorts who set this policy, hold the middle class hostage to these cart before the horse policies, will have little regard for the air you breathe, let alone your particular economic situation..

As far as coal plants go, they were being phased out (in the US over time) and LNG was the most viable and more constant replacement.(as opposed to wind and solar) However, presidential policy in 2021 made natural gas production much more expensive (regulation and leasing stalemates) and not only that, banned fracking on federal lands..Natural gas is a relatively clean fossil fuel and we have an abundant resource of this. In your area there is a lot of natural gas, so maybe get to your policy makers and tell them to get with it. It will now take longer because of the setback in 2021....probably at least three to four years when it could have been up and running by now.

I live in an area where we get most of our electricity from hydroelectric, so that's probably why my air is cleaner? However, they have shut down many smaller hydro plants in favor of the environment. But lets be clear, everything that produces energy will, in some form or another, have an impact on the environment. From the storage batteries, to the vast land space requirements of wind and solar, and on to the misgivings about nuclear energy. We have a long ways to go before we eliminate fossil fuels. So I stand fast in my rejection of government solutions that are tainted politically and lack common sense and practicality.

add; the high up in the atmosphere polution could be coming from China, Russia, India etc. But that's the rest of the story.

Natural gas production is going full speed and my state is the second largest producer of it, on all lands (state, private, and federal). And it’s still pretty reasonable. I have gas furnace, stove, fireplace, and water heaters. My NG bill last month was $47.73. In fact, the oil companies were wasting a lot of it by flaring (burning) oil well vents. The state passed legislation banning flaring recently, so now they have to capture the gas and utilize it.

 

[Reddogs]

You apparently haven’t figured out the low range first gear on your gear tractor. At any RPMs the forward speed in only a few mph.

You seem to be lost as the gear tractor runs different than the HST.

 

[DK35vince]

You apparently haven’t figured out the low range first gear on your gear tractor. At any RPMs the forward speed in only a few mph.

Do you dig out tree stumps at a couple MPH ??
I certainly don't. With a gear machine I'm at or near idle and ease into it.

 

[jyoutz]

Do you dig out tree stumps at a couple MPH ??
I certainly don't. With a gear machine I'm at or near idle and ease into it.

I owned a gear tractor for 21 years. In low 1st it would barely creep forward at full RPMs. The problem will soon solve itself. If you are ramming trees and stump with your loader, some type of equipment failure is inevitable. Wrong machine for that work.

 

[DK35vince]

I owned a gear tractor for 21 years. In low 1st it would barely creep forward at full RPMs. The problem will soon solve itself. If you are ramming trees and stump with your loader, some type of equipment failure is inevitable. Wrong machine for that work.

All my tractors have been gear.
Low range first gear is slow, but if I'm trying to get ahold of trees or stumps, or dig out a tree to transplant I do at idle or just above. (certainly not ramming them at high RPM)
Post hole digger I'm rarely much above idle (hurt someone if you try to run that thing at high RPM)

 

[jyoutz]

All my tractors have been gear.
Low range first gear is slow, but if I'm trying to get ahold of trees or stumps, or dig out a tree to transplant I do at idle or just above. (certainly not ramming them at high RPM)
Post hole digger I'm rarely much above idle (hurt someone if you try to run that thing at high RPM)

True. But tier 4 tractors do a regeneration requiring high RPMs for only about 15-20 minutes every 30+ hours of use. I think that’s the main point. It really has a minimal impact for most users.

 

[3gunr]

I have three gear tractors , The cub cadet 7260 Has a horrible clutch, almost impossible to to move slow without jerking forward, on the other hand my 2810 mahindra is smooth as silk and very easy to creep forwardor back, even the old massey is not bad , but you dont have run it at high rpms.

 

[Reddogs]

You apparently haven’t figured out the low range first gear on your gear tractor. At any RPMs the forward speed in only a few mph.

You have a real issue that you like to go at others and disregard the actual facts, the gear tractor has to be pulled out of gear and then back up and gently go forward if the rpm is too high or you will damage the FEL or grapple that is pretty much straight forward, and when digging out a stump or toppling invasive trees, you have to do it slowly and carefully and push very gently till it comes out or starts to fall over. High RPMs is not the way to do it, thus I have to stop and regen...hope that helps...

 

[jyoutz]

You have a real issue that you like to go at others and disregard the actual facts, the gear tractor has to be pulled out of gear and then back up and gently go forward if the rpm is too high or you will damage the FEL or grapple that is pretty much straight forward, and when digging out a stump or toppling invasive trees, you have to do it slowly and carefully and push very gently till it comes out or starts to fall over. High RPMs is not the way to do it, thus I have to stop and regen...hope that helps...

15 minutes every 30+ hours. If it’s consistently more frequent than this something isn’t working with your tractor.

 

[Reddogs]

15 minutes every 30+ hours. If it’s consistently more frequent than this something isn’t working with your tractor.

Well, its doing it every 5+ hours, thus the problem. So I am running at a higher RPM than idle as I get use to the tractor, and its getting better........

 

[CJONE]

Well, its doing it every 5+ hours, thus the problem. So I am running at a higher RPM than idle as I get use to the tractor, and its getting better........

Yea, the harder you run it the least amount of time it will regen. It will be harder to adapt for a gear tractor unless you were pulling a plow or running a blower. I was running a larger Volvo ex and was surprised when it regened every 4-5 hours. It gave you a warning then a countdown, I guess so you wouldnt shut it off? IMHO just a illuminated light to warn you that it was regening so when it was blowing smoke/soot out of the exhaust you would not be alarmed. I was running a smaller machine about 20k lbs and it gave no warning at all and I almost shut it off when it started smoking blue out of the exhaust, then I figured out it was in a regen. Scared the snot out of me at first. DUMB SYSTEM! CJ

 

[hornett22]

Weird sense of humor.

Weird sense of humor.

Not really. If you have common sense, many of the posts here are quite hilarious.

 

[bvanek]

Natural gas production is going full speed and my state is the second largest producer of it, on all lands (state, private, and federal). And it’s still pretty reasonable. I have gas furnace, stove, fireplace, and water heaters. My NG bill last month was $47.73. In fact, the oil companies were wasting a lot of it by flaring (burning) oil well vents. The state passed legislation banning flaring recently, so now they have to capture the gas and utilize it.

The oil companies used flaring to mitigate a much more concerning release of raw methane into the atmosphere. Does make sense to capture it but everything is at a cost up front. The fossil fuel industry is under attack politically, and as always the consumer will take the hit for poor policy via regulations/restrictions etc. Some of the higher echelon people will likely not be effected, but we are a country of many levels of posterity and the ever increasing heavy dependency on government "taxes" us all.

The federal government wastes monumental amounts of money. Money that can be put into "physical" infrastructure and the jobs they create feed that back into the economy. State governments usually do a better job simply because they are closer to the concerns of their populations. My state is politically compromised with heavy metropolitan influence from both within and out of state bureaucrats. Reason, common sense, and pragmatic solutions is my debate. Nothing more

I am not sure of your account of NG production,(as in rank), because by all my accounts Texas is # 1 Pennsylvania # 2 Oklahoma 3, Louisiana, Ohio, Colorado .........the latest more solid info is from 2018 and the dynamics has changed so much in the last couple years it may be different? However some companies control supply in more than one state? I realize that most of these larger producers have the infrastructure already in place and are better prepared to offer cheaper rates locally as opposed to converting to LNG to transport? It's funny how natural gas is the dominate beneficiary of the war on fossil fuels given that the long term goal of eliminating even this source......Hopefully smart people will prevail in the long term because the course we are on right now, holding the US and it's citizens hostage to climate change, will have huge consequences (consequences that are not down the road any more).

 

[jyoutz]

The oil companies used flaring to mitigate a much more concerning release of raw methane into the atmosphere. Does make sense to capture it but everything is at a cost up front. The fossil fuel industry is under attack politically, and as always the consumer will take the hit for poor policy via regulations/restrictions etc. Some of the higher echelon people will likely not be effected, but we are a country of many levels of posterity and the ever increasing heavy dependency on government "taxes" us all.

The federal government wastes monumental amounts of money. Money that can be put into "physical" infrastructure and the jobs they create feed that back into the economy. State governments usually do a better job simply because they are closer to the concerns of their populations. My state is politically compromised with heavy metropolitan influence from both within and out of state bureaucrats. Reason, common sense, and pragmatic solutions is my debate. Nothing more

I am not sure of your account of NG production,(as in rank), because by all my accounts Texas is # 1 Pennsylvania # 2 Oklahoma 3, Louisiana, Ohio, Colorado .........the latest more solid info is from 2018 and the dynamics has changed so much in the last couple years it may be different? However some companies control supply in more than one state? I realize that most of these larger producers have the infrastructure already in place and are better prepared to offer cheaper rates locally as opposed to converting to LNG to transport? It's funny how natural gas is the dominate beneficiary of the war on fossil fuels given that the long term goal of eliminating even this source......Hopefully smart people will prevail in the long term because the course we are on right now, holding the US and it's citizens hostage to climate change, will have huge consequences (consequences that are not down the road any more).

See the statistics for oil production by top states:

U.S. crude oil production by state 2024| Statista

Texas is by far the largest oil-producing state in the United States.

www.statista.com

Where our oil comes from - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Where crude oil is produced, the top 5 oil producing states, the types of oil producers, and the top 5 crude oil producing countries.

www.eia.gov

When our state legislature passed legislation to capture gas instead of flaring, the oil companies said this would decrease production. Instead two years after the legislation, they moved up to the number 2 spot for production. It’s unlikely that the state production rankings will change much because the Permian basin currently has the largest quality of known oil reserves in the WORLD.

 

[jyoutz]

The oil companies used flaring to mitigate a much more concerning release of raw methane into the atmosphere. Does make sense to capture it but everything is at a cost up front. The fossil fuel industry is under attack politically, and as always the consumer will take the hit for poor policy via regulations/restrictions etc. Some of the higher echelon people will likely not be effected, but we are a country of many levels of posterity and the ever increasing heavy dependency on government "taxes" us all.

The federal government wastes monumental amounts of money. Money that can be put into "physical" infrastructure and the jobs they create feed that back into the economy. State governments usually do a better job simply because they are closer to the concerns of their populations. My state is politically compromised with heavy metropolitan influence from both within and out of state bureaucrats. Reason, common sense, and pragmatic solutions is my debate. Nothing more

I am not sure of your account of NG production,(as in rank), because by all my accounts Texas is # 1 Pennsylvania # 2 Oklahoma 3, Louisiana, Ohio, Colorado .........the latest more solid info is from 2018 and the dynamics has changed so much in the last couple years it may be different? However some companies control supply in more than one state? I realize that most of these larger producers have the infrastructure already in place and are better prepared to offer cheaper rates locally as opposed to converting to LNG to transport? It's funny how natural gas is the dominate beneficiary of the war on fossil fuels given that the long term goal of eliminating even this source......Hopefully smart people will prevail in the long term because the course we are on right now, holding the US and it's citizens hostage to climate change, will have huge consequences (consequences that are not down the road any more).

You are correct and my post was wrong. My state is the second largest producer of crude petroleum, not natural gas, and the statistics I posted were for oil. Your ranking is still correct for 2021. Still all oil producing states also produce large quantities of natural gas.

 

[freightboy]

A couple of things that may have been overlooked concerning regenerations and a DPF. First, many manufacturers of engines = many methods of regeneration.
Second, choosing the right fuel is key on many of the DPF equipped tractors. A blend of not more than 10% biodiesel should be used, many truck stops sell 20% biodiesel.
Third is choosing the right oil. Each manufacturer has specs on their oil and that spec should be followed or exceeded. Many of our favorite oils do not meet the spec and create additional ash in the DPF. If you know how a DPF works, ash will decrease the life. A DPF is designed to burn soot.
Idling has been covered, so no need to beat the dead horse.
Most manufacturers of common rail systems use either Bosch or Denso fuel injection. Failures do occur, but they are pretty darn good. When controlled by the ECU, many manufacturers have multiple methods of regeneration. Some are done on a time basis, example would be at the first 50 hours and then every 100 after that. Nearly all detect differential pressure, a bad sensor could cause excessive regeneration. Some use a calculated method, measuring the fuel burnt, time, differential, and temperature. Some use all of these methods. The technology has gotten better but is a long way from perfect.
Someone stated earlier that there wasn't an intake throttle on diesels. This would be incorrect as some have either an intake throttle, exhaust throttle, or both to create a load on the tractor when differential pressures increase.
Someone else stated something about fuel economy. While most DPF equipped tractors use fuel in an after injection to create heat while regenerating, the increases in fuel efficiency due to electronically controlled fuel systems will more than make up for that. DPF equipped vehicles are as efficient or more efficient than comparable vehicles.

Just my thoughts and observations.

 

[bvanek]

A couple of things that may have been overlooked concerning regenerations and a DPF. First, many manufacturers of engines = many methods of regeneration.
Second, choosing the right fuel is key on many of the DPF equipped tractors. A blend of not more than 10% biodiesel should be used, many truck stops sell 20% biodiesel.
Third is choosing the right oil. Each manufacturer has specs on their oil and that spec should be followed or exceeded. Many of our favorite oils do not meet the spec and create additional ash in the DPF. If you know how a DPF works, ash will decrease the life. A DPF is designed to burn soot.
Idling has been covered, so no need to beat the dead horse.
Most manufacturers of common rail systems use either Bosch or Denso fuel injection. Failures do occur, but they are pretty darn good. When controlled by the ECU, many manufacturers have multiple methods of regeneration. Some are done on a time basis, example would be at the first 50 hours and then every 100 after that. Nearly all detect differential pressure, a bad sensor could cause excessive regeneration. Some use a calculated method, measuring the fuel burnt, time, differential, and temperature. Some use all of these methods. The technology has gotten better but is a long way from perfect.
Someone stated earlier that there wasn't an intake throttle on diesels. This would be incorrect as some have either an intake throttle, exhaust throttle, or both to create a load on the tractor when differential pressures increase.
Someone else stated something about fuel economy. While most DPF equipped tractors use fuel in an after injection to create heat while regenerating, the increases in fuel efficiency due to electronically controlled fuel systems will more than make up for that. DPF equipped vehicles are as efficient or more efficient than comparable vehicles.

Just my thoughts and observations.

well done. I like the common sense and taking out the "one size fits all" lumping.

You mentioned the bio fuel ratio that some may not correlate to fuel economy. My experience with both my F-350 7.3 diesel truck and tier 4 (4th phase no regen) tractor, is that not only do they run with less power, but they use up more fuel. I avoid the 20 % ......So logic says burn more fuel =.... well, it's pretty easy science.

I have never been on board with bio fuels.....just don't like replacing food for fuel. Also, given the fact that people's taxes subsidize the industry to get pump prices down, you pay one way or another........also, new studies have shown that producing ethanol fuel can put a lot of C02 the atmosphere. Not a good trade off for replacing food with fuel, when we have plenty of other resources that we seem so willing to shut down? Lets just say that political interference harms the science and hides the rest of the story.(truth)

thanks for the post, some good info.

 

[Raul-02]

Something is terribly wrong with your tractor. You are the ONLY one on here that has to put his tractor in Park for it to regenerate.

Aww look now you made him feel bad.

 

[bvanek]

Boy ain't that the truth. We have two trucks - a beautiful loaded 2001 7.3 Ford and a 2016 Mercedes Sprinter. Night and day. When the Ford is running you just don't walk behind it. In fact, you stay as far away as possible. It's has an odor in front and and exhaust funes in back that would gag a maggot. No emissions to worry about, though.

The Mercedes....well, you can barely tell if it's running. You have to put your hand on the pipe to feel if it is pulsing. The inside of the exhaust pipe looks brand new. No odor and almost no sound. No regen either....it uses DEF and the system doesn't care if it idles for hours or runs full chat all day. Economical, too.

Our Kubota tractor is pre-emissions, 60 hp, no computer, mechanical injection, repairable & bulletproof, runs fine.
We love our orange tractor - affectionately known as "ol' Stinky".
We will probably keep both our stinkers, but sure do look forward to our next tractor being a diesel with DEF.
rScotty

6.4? You guys haven't lived life on the edge until you've been within 50 feet of a 7.3 Powerstroke. I'm as far away from being a tree-hugger as a guy can get, but even I don't like being around those trucks. Even in 100% stock form those will gag you to death.

Sorry for your misery, perfection takes time....and money (lots of it) The 6.0 and 6.4 were disasters. Glad I have my smooth running Navistar 7.3 power-stroke that has lasted for 22 years. Doesn't overheat like the Detroit either.

the 7.3 liter is a basic, well constructed, diesel engine and was designed to run on diesel...too much bio fuel and processing lighter crude causes combustion issues..... This was part of the conflict Ford had with Navistar. Ford was getting government subsidies for emissions compliance and Navistar just wanted to make good engines that last. Ford's profit was likely at the forefront but the 6.0 and 6.4 failures had to be costly when all the math gets done.

If someone is running 20 % bio it will definitely effect how well it runs...so if it doesn't run well, it will likely put out more emissions.... My truck is a working, sometimes recreational, vehicle and used as such....Does it pollute? Well I suppose it does, but it's all I have.

 

[SSweetland]

Are you old enough to remember the disgusting brown air of the 1960-70s that made your chest hurt and sinuses wheeze whenever you went outside? Vehicle emissions are much cleaner today and the brown air is pretty much a thing of the past. I’m glad that government intervened with vehicle emissions.

I remember a lot of that from back then. Some cities you drove thru literally made you sick at your stomach from the bad smell. Gary Indiana was one of those we drove thru back in the early 70's that made all of us in the car sick