Bringing up old rock / gravel...want to restore parking lot and driveway...Land Plane or box blade or?

[DerpDerp]

Hello, Looking for some advice here. On our property we have a few buildings and a gravel parking lot / driveway. Over the years it has gotten more muddy / soily and the top layer is alot of gravel fines now. Over the years it has gotten worse to where there is alot more grass then there used to be. When I was clearing snow this past winter I dug in a bit too deep in a couple spots and I could see there is nice rock just underneath everything (see 4th picture). I ended up finding one of those old ariel photo paintings that were popular back in the day of our property, and I can see the parking lot and driveway was all stone (see last picture). So it appears all the stone is still there, just a bit buried / overgrown.

What Id like to do, if possible, is bring the stone back up to the top. I've tried to research this and it seems like a land plane or box blade with scarifiers would do this...I think.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Would my idea work? Any tips or tricks?
What implement would be the best to do this? I was looking at a 7ft woods land plane with the scarifiers for this.

I did get a quote to get it all redone with gravel but it was really expensive since its a large area so I am looking for more affordable alternatives.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I will be watching..... I have a similar if not the same situation. I have tried the box blade with the scarifiers down to break up / bring up the rock from below.....
Way too messy..... the big ballast rock also came up, so ended up with everything sized from 4-5" rocks down to the fines. Thankfully, I only did a small area. Had to hand pick all those big rocks out (anything bigger than 1"), then I put some 3/4" minus roadbase back over it to fix it.

I can see some of the larger rocks right at the surface, so not much of the smaller stuff to allow 'grading' it back. I believe that without major heavy equipment (grader, dozer, compactor), and "redoing" the entire drive, my drive and parking area will require 100's of tons of new gravel ($$$$) to top it all.

There has to be a way, but I think in my case, just not going to be an easy fix.
In your case, I would try a land plane, especially if it has scarifiers. If not, then break it up loosely for the top few inches using a box blade, then use the land plane for final grading. This is assuming that you have both.

 

[M59]

DerpDerp,

Based on my past experience with both land planes and box blades and looking at your pics, neither the land plane or the box blade are going to move the large rock to the top and the fines to the bottom. Your looking at a digging and screening operation where the larger rock is sorted out and redeposited onto the top of the fines.

I will be interested in how other commenters address this but I think you're buying a new load of rock.

 

[cqaigy2]

I wonder how well a power rake would work for that?

 

[Egon]

Think about a road grader. It can dig up the gravel, mix it well and then lay it back down. The operator will be able to separate the larger rock and lay it in the bottom.

 

[M59]

I wonder how well a power rake would work for that?

I run a 6 foot power rake ( Harley rake ) and I wouldn't attempt to dig out a sunk base of stone and try to set the bypass curtain so just the fines went over the top of the rake and kept the stone inside the rake between the side curtains for the following reasons:
1 Power rake, even carbide tipped like mine, are not meant for continuous abuse digging up lots of stone. When ground is really rocky the rake starts bouncing around even with 830 Lbs of rake weight.
2 The volume between the wings is limited and would soon fill up with stone. Where do you move the stone to until to are ready to spread it back out over the fines?

Too much time effort and abuse on equipment.

 

[deezler]

I disagree with some of the above comments - I think a nice heavy land plane (with rippers) will work pretty well for you. First with rippers down, break it all up, and you'll get an idea what the sub-surface material composition is like. Then with rippers up, normal land plane operation to smooth it out.

The principal is really the same as all of us with gravel driveways - we get the exact same issue over time. My land plane (even with rippers up) does in fact pop a lot of stones up to the surface, then lays them all down in a nice flat layer.

It's not like you can just flip a switch and get clean stones on the top and all the fines and organic material magically buried underneath. Unless you want to go nuts with removing, screening and relaying all of it like M59 mentioned, the best you are going to get is to mix everything up and pop stones upwards. It will look dirty until you get a couple rains and some traffic on it. But soon it will all look like nice stone on top again.

I like to do this on my driveway when the ground is really soggy, as it makes the ripping and stone popping go way easier, as opposed to the land place bouncing around atop hardpack stones. But then it sometimes looks like I've mixed mud into my stones, until it rains and washes it off.

 

[jb1390]

I have both. Box blade is better for gouging and mixing the material. Land plane is better for the final few passes. I have scarifiers on both of them. If it's real hard packed, I start with the land plane scarifiers (implement is heavier), then switch to box blade, do my rough grading and mixing, and add a crown, then swap back over to the land plane with scarifiers lifted to get final grade.

Now, every implement has its limits, and the tractor won't do what a grader or dozer will do. But for gravel driveways with rock up to 3-4", I've had good luck with those two tools.

 

[DerpDerp]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Definitely some mixed opinions but I appreciate it...I would rather have a good handle on if this is possible or not. I do not have a land plane or box blade yet but I have priced out a 7ft land plane with scarifiers. Its not cheap but if this will work its well worth the cost of buying it vs. having it all redone.

But I was thinking after reading some of your replies, would it help if I were to try to skim off the grassy top layer I have in spots with the bucket before trying to rip it up with the scarifiers? I figured it couldn't hurt to get rid of as much soil/sod as possible.

Deezler - So doing this with the ground a bit wet works better from your experience?

 

[old and tired]

Roughly where are you located? If it's near SW, Virginia, you can borrow my box blade...

 

[nyone]

Box blade with the top link set correctly to just scratch the surface. You will need to to a few passes. The teeth mix up the fines on top and the blade smooths things out.

If you have alot of grass growing I may spray a mild weed killer on it a week prior.

 

[deezler]

But I was thinking after reading some of your replies, would it help if I were to try to skim off the grassy top layer I have in spots with the bucket before trying to rip it up with the scarifiers? I figured it couldn't hurt to get rid of as much soil/sod as possible.

Deezler - So doing this with the ground a bit wet works better from your experience?

Yeah if you can get rid of sod / organic material, thats always a plus. You don't want that junk turning to mud in/under your rocks.

Yes, in my experience some prolonged dampness really helps loosen things up. So I don't even try in the droughts of mid summer, when my driveway is hard as concrete. This is generally a spring and fall task for me. But it depends how hard packed your driveway/yard is. And also how much machine power you have - my dinky 35HP and 4k lbs can only pull so hard with my 6-ft land plane.

 

[DerpDerp]

Roughly where are you located? If it's near SW, Virginia, you can borrow my box blade...

Im in NY, but thank you for the generous and kind offer

 

[DerpDerp]

Box blade with the top link set correctly to just scratch the surface. You will need to to a few passes. The teeth mix up the fines on top and the blade smooths things out.

If you have alot of grass growing I may spray a mild weed killer on it a week prior.

Thanks, will a land plane accomplish the same thing? I'm attracted to the land plane for what seems to be its ability to bring up stones and smooth them out as you go. Ive watched some youtube videos where it appears to restore gravel driveways pretty nicely (and easily, which is a plus for a newbie like me haha)

Yeah if you can get rid of sod / organic material, thats always a plus. You don't want that junk turning to mud in/under your rocks.

Yes, in my experience some prolonged dampness really helps loosen things up. So I don't even try in the droughts of mid summer, when my driveway is hard as concrete. This is generally a spring and fall task for me. But it depends how hard packed your driveway/yard is. And also how much machine power you have - my dinky 35HP and 4k lbs can only pull so hard with my 6-ft land plane.

Cool, thats what I was thinking too. I think I could get rid of some grassy spots fairly easily.

Thanks for the tip, I wouldnt have thought that on my own, but it makes alot of sense!

 

[jb1390]

Thanks, will a land plane accomplish the same thing? I'm attracted to the land plane for what seems to be its ability to bring up stones and smooth them out as you go. Ive watched some youtube videos where it appears to restore gravel driveways pretty nicely (and easily, which is a plus for a newbie like me haha)



Cool, thats what I was thinking too. I think I could get rid of some grassy spots fairly easily.

Thanks for the tip, I wouldnt have thought that on my own, but it makes alot of sense!

If none of your rock is big (larger than an inch, maybe 2), the land plane will do a decent job mixing the material. You want to re-mix the fines and the stone, then spread out that mix into the final shape of the driveway. Where I find the land plane struggles is when the rock gets too large, getting the mixing effect can be difficult, especially if the rock is at the surface (when the fines have been eroded away).

Also, if the areas that are growing grass are growing in stone dust or sand, that's different than loam. So it depends what it is, whether you want to remove it, or mix it back in.

 

[DerpDerp]

If none of your rock is big (larger than an inch, maybe 2), the land plane will do a decent job mixing the material. You want to re-mix the fines and the stone, then spread out that mix into the final shape of the driveway. Where I find the land plane struggles is when the rock gets too large, getting the mixing effect can be difficult, especially if the rock is at the surface (when the fines have been eroded away).

Also, if the areas that are growing grass are growing in stone dust or sand, that's different than loam. So it depends what it is, whether you want to remove it, or mix it back in.

Some of the rocks are about 3" long, its definitely a mix

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Box grader will do it. I have done it. My brother and I made a big honkin box grader. It felt good to get impressed, and that one did impress me.

 

[DerpDerp]

If none of your rock is big (larger than an inch, maybe 2), the land plane will do a decent job mixing the material. You want to re-mix the fines and the stone, then spread out that mix into the final shape of the driveway. Where I find the land plane struggles is when the rock gets too large, getting the mixing effect can be difficult, especially if the rock is at the surface (when the fines have been eroded away).

Also, if the areas that are growing grass are growing in stone dust or sand, that's different than loam. So it depends what it is, whether you want to remove it, or mix it back in.

I'm getting the feeling I will need a box blade and a land plane if I have stone up to 3" or so. Or at least both would be ideal if I could swing it?

 

[jb1390]

I'm getting the feeling I will need a box blade and a land plane if I have stone up to 3" or so. Or at least both would be ideal if I could swing it?

Having both is ideal. If you were to only pick one, box blade is probably more versatile. But it is a little harder to use and get really good results. For your application you might be able to get away with just the land plane, but it depends on the actual material. If money is an issue and you cannot get both, you could get some of the mixing results of the box blade using the loader, if there's an area that the land plane jumps around (can happen if the fines have washed out). The box blade can hold a lot more, so if you have a washed out rocky area, you can carry stuff back and forth until you can get some fines mixed back in with the stone. If you don't have any washed out areas, the land plane by itself would probably be good. Any possibility you could rent or borrow one or the other before purchasing?

Looking at your pictures again, if most of the areas look like that, the land plane by itself will probably work great. Use the scarifiers at first to help separate the top layer and break up the grass, then lift them for your final grading.

 

[FERLING]

Hello, Looking for some advice here. On our property we have a few buildings and a gravel parking lot / driveway. Over the years it has gotten more muddy / soily and the top layer is alot of gravel fines now. Over the years it has gotten worse to where there is alot more grass then there used to be. When I was clearing snow this past winter I dug in a bit too deep in a couple spots and I could see there is nice rock just underneath everything (see 4th picture). I ended up finding one of those old ariel photo paintings that were popular back in the day of our property, and I can see the parking lot and driveway was all stone (see last picture). So it

appears all the stone is still there, just a bit buried / overgrown.

What Id like to do, if possible, is bring the stone back up to the top. I've tried to research this and it seems like a land plane or box blade with scarifiers would do this...I think.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Would my idea work? Any tips or tricks?
What implement would be the best to do this? I was looking at a 7ft woods land plane with the scarifiers for this.

I did get a quote to get it all redone with gravel but it was really expensive since its a large area so I am looking for more affordable alternatives.

Try one of these. May have to go over three or four times but it will loosen top inch without disturbing your packed base. I use one for a my gravel driveway (3100 ft lenght). Saves me from buying so much gravel. Once you have an establish packed base this keeps the top inch loose.
Any big rock or grass that is pulled up move to the sides. Use for filling wash places that occur in the future. This is the cheapest way to try. If it doesn't work you can always purchase the other equipment when caught at a good price.