Considering Upgrading.... Looking for the Goldilock's Bucket Size

[Panik]

So we bought a BX2360 back in 2014 when we owned 5 acres of flat, river bottom. Since that purchase we moved to 11 acres that includes roughly 3 acres of landscaped "field" and 7 acres of woods. The BX has been a great little tractor, but have started to feel like it is a bit undersized for the property and the work I try to accomplish throughout the year. As a result, we are in the early stages of considering a larger Kubota tractor; specifically looking at a B, L2501, or LX TLB and possibly grapple.

Discussion on the merits of a TLB, tractor weight and ground clearance can be a discussion for another day. One of the primary reasons we are considering a larger tractor is the greater lift and volumetric capacity that may come with a loader on a larger size tractor. We move a pretty significant amount of tree/brush trimmings and mulch during the course of the year and I would very much like to consider reducing the number of trips to the mulch and brush pile.

Under different circumstances I would look at lift rating/heights and also compare bucket sizes Bx - 48", B/LX - 60" L2501 - 66" and kinda back of the napkin an understanding of how much more capacity the larger tractors might provide. Part of what is keeping me from accomplishing this is that, at least for mulch, we use a bucket expander from Bxpanded.... which confuses things.

Anyone willing to take a stab at helping me understand whether a 60" or 66" bucket on a larger tractor would make a significant difference as compared to a 48" bucket? My gut tells me that a 60" or 66" bucket would make a significant improvement over a 48" bucket for my purposes, but then I also have a bit of tractor fever trying to create a whole in my pocket.

 

[Smokeydog]

We enjoy our B26 as a multi-use machine. 54” grapple is used often. 60”HD gp bucket. Strong heavy duty tractor made for lifting yet compact. Landscaper’s dream. 4 post ROPS and canopy offers good operator protection. Many modifications to suit our use.

 

[MossRoad]

I had an old IH2500b with a 3/4 cubic yard bucket.

I have a PowerTrac PT425 with a 10 cubic foot (a little more than 1/3 cubic yard) bucket and a 5 cubic foot bucket.

The little PT425 with the smaller bucket would run circles around the larger IH with the larger bucket when doing tasks like moving mulch, stone, and other loose materials because it is so fast and nimble.

The IH could squash the little PT425 like a bug because it was so large and strong.

You can’t really compare bucket widths without looking at depths and heights. You need to look at cubic displacement to see which one will carry more material is what I’m trying to say.

Then you need to see which machine can carry which bucket with X amount of weight, etc.

Anyhow, a bit to think about. Good luck in your search.

 

[jeff9366]

We are in the early stages of considering a larger Kubota tractor; specifically looking at a B, L2501, or LX TLB and possibly grapple.

The leading reasons we are considering a larger tractor are the greater FEL lift and bucket capacity that come with a larger tractor. We move a significant amount of tree/brush trimmings and mulch during the course of the year. I want to reduce the number of trips to the mulch and brush pile.

If you opt for an SSQA bucket-to-FEL coupler on an L2501 you can change from a grapple to a Light Materials Bucket, standard Bucket or the L2296 Heavy-Duty, Round Back Bucket in two minutes per change. Four options.

We moved to 11 acres that includes 7 acres of woods.

The grapple is ideal for transporting brush and tree debris.

SSQA pallet forks are a relatively low cost, low complexity grapple alternative.

The Light Materials bucket is ideal for mulch, compost and fluffy snow, however not suitable for mounting a toothbar, or bucket spade. Light gauge bucket metal too prone to "smile". If your try to fill with Light Materials Bucket with dirt, your will run out of hydraulic lift capacity before the bucket is full, in many instances.

L2296 H-D, R-B Bucket has ample strength to mount toothbars and bucket spades. Also the heaviest option for back dragging with the bucket.

Front-End Loader - Ratchet Rake // Today

I had a snarled mass of wild grape vines and brush near a gate. Decided I should clear it today, before everything emerged from dormancy. Photo #1 Ratchet Rake on bucket. Downward oriented teeth make this attachment excellent for pulling brush and light grading, but you cannot dig a hole...

www.tractorbynet.com

Standard bucket is the standard bucket.

 

[jeff9366]

If your property is flat and you have ample time, you may be satisfied with an L2501 on eleven acres. However, you are considering a tractor with minimum weight and minimum horsepower for eleven FLAT acres.

If your seven acre woodland has hills or is sloped, or if you intend to create and maintain trails in the woods, the L2501 will be too narrow and too light and therefore unstable, to operate SAFELY.

Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, sometimes adjustable, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. Rear axle is the tractor component on which rear wheels/tires mount. A 6" to 10" wider rear axle substantially decreases tractor rollover potential. Tractor width is an approximation of rear axle width.

Larger wheels and tires provide more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and logs, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, ruts and tree debris yielding higher operating speed with less implement and operator perturbation.

Rather than a 2,700 pound bare weight L2501 with moderate size wheels, consider a 3,700 pound bare weight Kubota MX with much larger wheels, which are also adjustable for spread.

Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification. Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

T-B-N ARCHIVE:
tractor for ten hilly sloped acres site:tractorbynet.com

 

[CurtisC]

I second Smokeydog's assessment. When compared to other compact tractors, the B26TLB is a tougher machine built more for commercial than residential work. It's nimble when working in wooded, close quartered areas, and has a larger hydraulic pump for smoother B/H operation. The B/H provides an ample and adjustable counterweight on the rear for any FEL scenario without having to load the rears. The FEL comes setup with quick attach and will lift 1K lbs. in the standard 60 in. bullet proof bucket.
Yes, get the bigger bucket/grapple, and if you're going to seriously use and sometimes abuse the machine, the B26TLB is hard to beat.

 

[pokey1416]

I don't know if a Grand L is on your radar but the features of HST+, the dual speed, ability to set HST response, and the auto throttle - are really nice when you're doing a lot of loader work. The throttle up button on the joystick is great too, especially if you're using auto throttle to keep the noise down. Really, the only downside I've experienced with my GL4060 is the standard suspension seat is terrible IMO and, at times I wish the loader had more lift capacity (I have the LA805).

Got an air ride seat on the way...nothing I can do about lift capacity except trade-up

 

[Eagle1]

With a 3-range HST on an L2501 your top speed will be approximately 12-mph, twice the top speed of a BX with its 2-range HST transmission.

Sorry my BX tops out at 11 mph in high. Actually my biggest complaint about the bigger tractor, does not want to work in high (BX does) but then you have shift to get somewhere because Medium is slow.

 

[jeff9366]

Sorry my BX tops out at 11 mph in high.

Reviewing Kubota specs, I see BX top speed is listed as 8.4-mph WITH TURF TIRES. Larger diameter wheels/tires would increase top speed. My bad.

I edited out the controversial paragraph.

 

[mikester]

To help you "understand the differences" you need to focus on what task you are trying to achieve rather than comparing the size of the buckets.

Are you trying to move cubic yards of dirt a day? Gravel? Mulch? Pallets of sod? Armourstone? Cords of wood or logs? How far? How fast do you need to do it i.e. how much time does it take? How many dollars a ton does it cost you to move stuff now?

If you are simply moving a little bit of dirt around your garden, you are retired and have all day to do it then your bucket size doesn't really matter other than whatever floats your boat and how much time you want to spend and how much money it costs to do it doesn't really matter. 10 trips with a 66 inch bucket or 12 trips with a 48 inch bucket doesn't really amount to much difference at the end of the day.

If you are using your machine as a "pay loader" then the machine needs to earn its keep, time is money, fuel costs money, dollars a ton counts. In this case none of your desired machines will cut the cheese and you would probably be looking at a skidsteer or CTL that can lift a 3,000 lbs pallets of sod from the back of a truck quickly, safely and get it to where you need it in the shortest amount of time possible.

Don't worry about the color of your hammer's handle when what you really want to do is shingle your roof.

 

[ruffdog]

Get a light grapple that opens wide with good gullet space. You will be amazed how much brush it will carry compared to a bucket. Learn to position the grapple and curl forward to compress piles down before clamping them. Maybe you can get a grapple attachment that bolts to your bucket.

Single Add-A-Grapple for Sale - Ask Tractor Mike-Ozark, MO

 

[Torvy]

Sometimes, the solution to a problem is simpler than one might think.

If I were faced with this problem, I would pull a trailer/wagon behind my tractor (or with a SxS) to the work area. Then, I would unhitch and proceed to use my grapple to fill the wagon. Then transport the wagon to brush pile (or other desired location). Empty/dump wagon. Repeat as needed. If the goal is fewer trips back and forth with the tractor, this is the way I would go. Works even better if you can pull with pickup or SxS.

That being said, I think you need more tractor than you have for other reasons...and even more than you are considering. The smallest Kubota I would get in your situation is the L4701.

 

[Smokeydog]

We had a B20 for over twenty years and was handy as a pocket on a shirt on our farm. Tried to replace with L3830. No Go. Too big and awkward. Tired several pieces of equipment for mowing what the B20 did was disappointing. Finally got a B26 and couldn’t be happier. Wife thinks it’s hers and that’s OK. Experience has helped buddies get one. Bought both used to save considerable cost.

BXPANDED is about 5 miles away. Many good tools for BX and other small tractors. Amazed at some of the jobs BX owners tackle.

 

[jeff9366]

So we bought a BX2360 in 2014 when we owned 5 acres of flat, river bottom. We are in the early stages of considering a larger Kubota tractor; specifically looking at a B, LX TLB, or L2501 for 11 acres.


Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!
When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

Dimensions - BX2360
Wheelbase:	55.1 inches 139 cm
Length:	95.5 inches 242 cm
Width:	44.5 inches 113 cm
Height (ROPS):	70.4 inches 178 cm
Weight:	1,322 lbs 599 kg

Kubota L2501 Weight
4WD Gear :	2601 lbs 1179 kg
4WD Hydro :	2623 lbs 1189 kg

Dimensions - L2501
Wheelbase:	63.3 inches 160 cm
2WD Length:	110.6 inches 280 cm
4WD Length:	106.3 inches 270 cm
Width:	55.1 inches 139 cm

Dimensions - MX5400
Wheelbase:	74.6 inches 189 cm
4WD Length:	125.8 inches 319 cm
Width:	69.7 inches 177 cm *

Kubota MX5400 Weight
4WD Gear ROPS :	3716 lbs 1685 kg
4WD Gear Cab :	4251 lbs 1928 kg
4WD Hydro ROPS :	3734 lbs 1693 kg
4WD Hydro Cab :	4268 lbs 1935 kg

 

[Torvy]

For what it's worth, the L4701 is 62.5" wide and weighs about 3300 lbs...so, in between the 2501 and MX that Jeff referenced.

 

[Panik]

Wow! Tried to respond this morning before work, but ran out of time and coffee. Lots of good points here and discussion and I appreciate the contributions. I apologize as it takes some time for me to put words to paper

In considering a larger tractor I am looking at a lot of different factors: size/weight/lift + volumetric capacity. I also have a decent understanding of what we can afford and what my yard will support in terms of maneuverability and weight induced damage. Those last two factors are what has been driving my specific interest in the large B, Lx & L2501 range of tractors in considering if trading up in tractors would provide added enough functionality for my needs/wants to make it worth the cost&effort.

I would love to be able to afford an MX or Grand L; however they are simply beyond what we can reasonably afford. Also, while weight is a huge factor in considering usefulness, those tractors are simply too large to be easily maneuverable on our property and likely also too heavy for our property.

Things that important in considering whether to buy larger piece of equipment are:

- Increased ability to move larger volumes of light materials (mulch) per trip.
- Increased capacity and ease of brush transport
- Occasional need for the ability to dig and transport larger amounts than I am currently capable of sedimentation from the ditch alongside the gravel road running to the shop
- Occasional homeowner level trenching + excavation of holes for planting/landscaping
- Occasional re-excavation to repair water lines to the house
- Innate loader quick attach, preferably SSQA
- *Higher material transport speed...... Caveat because, based on conditions, it may not be useful/safe

Things that are not important:
- Mowing… is handled by a zero turn
- Heavy ground engagement work
- Woods/trail work

Understand I have read any number of threads on TLB's and their utility vs value curve. Having a backhoe attachment is a significant want and small need for me. The wife and I have pretty hectic work/life schedules. I like working in the yard and highly value being able to work on projects without having to deal with rental companies.

I had an old IH2500b with a 3/4 cubic yard bucket.

I have a PowerTrac PT425 with a 10 cubic foot (a little more than 1/3 cubic yard) bucket and a 5 cubic foot bucket.

The little PT425 with the smaller bucket would run circles around the larger IH with the larger bucket when doing tasks like moving mulch, stone, and other loose materials because it is so fast and nimble.

The IH could squash the little PT425 like a bug because it was so large and strong.

You can’t really compare bucket widths without looking at depths and heights. You need to look at cubic displacement to see which one will carry more material is what I’m trying to say.

Then you need to see which machine can carry which bucket with X amount of weight, etc.

Anyhow, a bit to think about. Good luck in your search.

Moss - you make a bunch of good points both in terms of maneuverability and in regards to what I was looking at/for regarding bucket sizes. What I wish I could find is a listing of dimensions, similar to what W.R. Long provides, for the buckets that Kubota offers on their tractors.

If I had that I could do some caculating to have some hard numbers, which would better help to make a determination if it was worthwhile in terms of wants/needs to get a larger TLB (hopefully with grapple) or just add a 3rd function and grapple to the bx.

We enjoy our B26 as a multi-use machine. 54” grapple is used often. 60”HD gp bucket. Strong heavy duty tractor made for lifting yet compact. Landscaper’s dream. 4 post ROPS and canopy offers good operator protection. Many modifications to suit our use.

We had a B20 for over twenty years and was handy as a pocket on a shirt on our farm. Tried to replace with L3830. No Go. Too big and awkward. Tired several pieces of equipment for mowing what the B20 did was disappointing. Finally got a B26 and couldn’t be happier. Wife thinks it’s hers and that’s OK. Experience has helped buddies get one. Bought both used to save considerable cost.

BXPANDED is about 5 miles away. Many good tools for BX and other small tractors. Amazed at some of the jobs BX owners tackle.

I had originally looked at the B26's I really like that they are overbuilt to function in a commercial environment. Pretty early on I had discounted them from consideration based on the MSRP. Would you be willing to ball park what you paid and the year you bought it?

I feel like you're getting what I'm putting down. Weight and power (Loader, hp, 3pt, backhoe) is always a nice thing, but in many cases there's a sweet spot compromise. I'd love to be able to afford an MX and what if offers, but there's definitely places on my property where I need to go that it wouldn't fit.

As example, if I got an MX TLB the power and capacity of the backhoe bucket would be great, but there's no way I could use it to clear the ditches I have because of the clearance on either side of the gravel road on our property. Seat of the pants, a B TLB feels right for what we have....but, excluding the backhoe, if it's a neglible increase in capabilities it might not be worth taking on a loan.

Get a light grapple that opens wide with good gullet space. You will be amazed how much brush it will carry compared to a bucket. Learn to position the grapple and curl forward to compress piles down before clamping them. Maybe you can get a grapple attachment that bolts to your bucket.

Single Add-A-Grapple for Sale - Ask Tractor Mike-Ozark, MO

That's the plan regardless of the outcome of my research into a larger tractor.

Sometimes, the solution to a problem is simpler than one might think.

If I were faced with this problem, I would pull a trailer/wagon behind my tractor (or with a SxS) to the work area. Then, I would unhitch and proceed to use my grapple to fill the wagon. Then transport the wagon to brush pile (or other desired location). Empty/dump wagon. Repeat as needed. If the goal is fewer trips back and forth with the tractor, this is the way I would go. Works even better if you can pull with pickup or SxS.

That being said, I think you need more tractor than you have for other reasons...and even more than you are considering. The smallest Kubota I would get in your situation is the L4701.

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment about the trailer and its something I will consider... The one plus side of using the BX is that while the bucket size means more trips, the tractor's size means that I can get where I need and mostly position the bucket over the bed and dump directly where I need the mulch with minimal spreading. The other thing is that while I certainly could pile brush into a trailer the location of the brush pile largely precludes being able to get a trailer down to it.

I would honestly appreciate hearing your thoughts about why you think I might need an L4701 or bigger...While I have a spreadsheet comparing the specs for B's, Lx, and L2501 I honestly don't know if or how much bigger an L4701 might be. More lift,volume capacity and power would certainly be nice, but if size and weight significantly limits my ability to work in the yard that I have it would be worse than just sticking with the bx.

 

[Torvy]

I'm a spreadsheet guy, too. I covered 12 or 13 manufacturers and about 3-5 tractors each.

The L4701 seemed to hit a sweet spot between sizes. A little bigger than the frame on the 3301 and 3901, but not as big as the MX series. The devil is in the details. Working on trees can mean having to move more weight with the FEL. Your woods are likely different than my pine plantation. Sometimes, smaller is better. If you want to reduce time in the seat, you will want the biggest tractor that fits your land and has a price you can live with. One reason I will probably not buy Kubota is the lower capacity for similar sized frames.

 

[rScotty]

Wow! Tried to respond this morning before work, but ran out of time and coffee. Lots of good points here and discussion and I appreciate the contributions. I apologize as it takes some time for me to put words to paper

In considering a larger tractor I am looking at a lot of different factors: size/weight/lift + volumetric capacity. I also have a decent understanding of what we can afford and what my yard will support in terms of maneuverability and weight induced damage. Those last two factors are what has been driving my specific interest in the large B, Lx & L2501 range of tractors in considering if trading up in tractors would provide added enough functionality for my needs/wants to make it worth the cost&effort.

I would love to be able to afford an MX or Grand L; however they are simply beyond what we can reasonably afford. Also, while weight is a huge factor in considering usefulness, those tractors are simply too large to be easily maneuverable on our property and likely also too heavy for our property.

Things that important in considering whether to buy larger piece of equipment are:

- Increased ability to move larger volumes of light materials (mulch) per trip.
- Increased capacity and ease of brush transport
- Occasional need for the ability to dig and transport larger amounts than I am currently capable of sedimentation from the ditch alongside the gravel road running to the shop
- Occasional homeowner level trenching + excavation of holes for planting/landscaping
- Occasional re-excavation to repair water lines to the house
- Innate loader quick attach, preferably SSQA
- *Higher material transport speed...... Caveat because, based on conditions, it may not be useful/safe

Things that are not important:
- Mowing… is handled by a zero turn
- Heavy ground engagement work
- Woods/trail work

Understand I have read any number of threads on TLB's and their utility vs value curve. Having a backhoe attachment is a significant want and small need for me. The wife and I have pretty hectic work/life schedules. I like working in the yard and highly value being able to work on projects without having to deal with rental companies.


Moss - you make a bunch of good points both in terms of maneuverability and in regards to what I was looking at/for regarding bucket sizes. What I wish I could find is a listing of dimensions, similar to what W.R. Long provides, for the buckets that Kubota offers on their tractors.

If I had that I could do some caculating to have some hard numbers, which would better help to make a determination if it was worthwhile in terms of wants/needs to get a larger TLB (hopefully with grapple) or just add a 3rd function and grapple to the bx.


I had originally looked at the B26's I really like that they are overbuilt to function in a commercial environment. Pretty early on I had discounted them from consideration based on the MSRP. Would you be willing to ball park what you paid and the year you bought it?

I feel like you're getting what I'm putting down. Weight and power (Loader, hp, 3pt, backhoe) is always a nice thing, but in many cases there's a sweet spot compromise. I'd love to be able to afford an MX and what if offers, but there's definitely places on my property where I need to go that it wouldn't fit.

As example, if I got an MX TLB the power and capacity of the backhoe bucket would be great, but there's no way I could use it to clear the ditches I have because of the clearance on either side of the gravel road on our property. Seat of the pants, a B TLB feels right for what we have....but, excluding the backhoe, if it's a neglible increase in capabilities it might not be worth taking on a loan.

That's the plan regardless of the outcome of my research into a larger tractor.

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment about the trailer and its something I will consider... The one plus side of using the BX is that while the bucket size means more trips, the tractor's size means that I can get where I need and mostly position the bucket over the bed and dump directly where I need the mulch with minimal spreading. The other thing is that while I certainly could pile brush into a trailer the location of the brush pile largely precludes being able to get a trailer down to it.

I would honestly appreciate hearing your thoughts about why you think I might need an L4701 or bigger...While I have a spreadsheet comparing the specs for B's, Lx, and L2501 I honestly don't know if or how much bigger an L4701 might be. More lift,volume capacity and power would certainly be nice, but if size and weight significantly limits my ability to work in the yard that I have it would be worse than just sticking with the bx.

Wow. You are really working at it. I've been where you are tractor-wise - but probably not in any way that really counts. And I've never seen your land, but have spent time in East Texas & up to Missouri.

The Kubota M59 TLB was roughly double what our budget was at the time. It's been 15 years, and every time we fire it up my wife can't stop talking about what a good investment it was. Only downside (and I've never said this to her) is that she doesn't want to use it herself because it is just too big for her to feel comfortable with. As good as the size is for projects, if I had known her feelings I would have leaned more towards one of the smaller Kubota TLBs.... like the B26 or L39 whatever the similar model is they are selling today.

On backhoes - we use it more for landscaping, planting trees & shrubs, moving rocks, and as a crane than actually digging ditches or such. If you get one, get a thumb on it. Yes, it costs more.... For years we gardened and landscaped by hand and loved it, but your back does get older and a small backhoe on a little tractor is a wonderful thing for a retired couple.

If you are seriously looking larger like L4701 and a little up, I'd personally look at low hr. used ones of those so you could keep the BX... maybe add an attachmet or two to it. Little tractors are just so doggone handy. I miss our little 16hp Yanmar, and know my wife does too. She never says anything, but now uses a wheelbarrow where she used to use the little tractor.
rScotty

 

[Eagle1]

Little tractors are just so doggone handy.

For that reason alone I kept my BX when I upgraded. It still sees all it's normal chores just don't beat on it to accomplish bigger tasks. There is no way get a 66" bucket into places the 48" just works. Small and narrow is handy in all sorts of ways.

 

[Smokeydog]

In your spreadsheet do you have columns for entertainment and safety with multiple operators? Another reason B26 are popular rentals. Being a safe platform for my wife and father was a major model consideration.

Renting one to test and evaluate might help you? Home Depot, Uhaul, Enterprise.

B26 is 4,000#. Great loader articulation and lift.

The used one we got from a local rental auction had 50hours in 2016. About all options. Saved about $10K than new. The thumb on the backhoe was new option for us. If we had bought new probably wouldn’t have spent extra money on a thumb. Now wouldn’t have one without.

It was an evolution of different tractors over time that’s changed with our needs. Enjoy the journey.