Kohler No Longer An Option on L&G Tractors?

[Tomtint]

Whats your reasoning?

We have had them in a Ariens GT17 tractor in the past. First one lasted about 600 hours and always used oil. One day it just grenaded one of the pistons and blew it out the side of the cylinder. Second motor lasted less than that and overheated itself into full lock up. Had a 17HP on a Scag 36" mower.. Thing never ran well since it was new and finally consumed oil to the point where it was time to replace it or just get rid of the mower all together. Less than 500 hours on that mower and the motor was trash.Replaved it with a new Scag but a Kawi motor.. Runs and starts like a champ. Have a Walker mower now with a 23HP Kohler that has popped 2 head gaskets in less than 500 hours of use. Was going to replace that mower with another but Walker must have a deal with Kohler as i can't get anything else unless its a diesel. Xmark is supposedly coming out with a Kawi option for their Walker knock off design mower.. Ill probably go that route once its available.

 

[5030]

Where's a "kowalski" motor made? Poland?? lol lol

Many of the Kohler's are now made in china, some have the carbs so set lean, they won't even start in cold weather. Re-jetting fixes most of those problems though.

SR

Interestingly, I had that issue with the carb on my Lincoln Gas welder with it's K series Kohler horizontal thumper. No way to adjust it, all sealed. That jug went in the trash and I bought a real adjustable one. Problem solved. When the 'pollution police' get involved, it's all down hill.

 

[5030]

We have had them in a Ariens GT17 tractor in the past. First one lasted about 600 hours and always used oil. One day it just grenaded one of the pistons and blew it out the side of the cylinder. Second motor lasted less than that and overheated itself into full lock up. Had a 17HP on a Scag 36" mower.. Thing never ran well since it was new and finally consumed oil to the point where it was time to replace it or just get rid of the mower all together. Less than 500 hours on that mower and the motor was trash.Replaved it with a new Scag but a Kawi motor.. Runs and starts like a champ. Have a Walker mower now with a 23HP Kohler that has popped 2 head gaskets in less than 500 hours of use. Was going to replace that mower with another but Walker must have a deal with Kohler as i can't get anything else unless its a diesel. Xmark is supposedly coming out with a Kawi option for their Walker knock off design mower.. Ill probably go that route once its available.

You can get a lemon in any motor. I lunched a Honda with a rod through the block at 7 hours and Honda told me it was my fault. Put a HF Pred in it's place and lived happily ever after. Honda's are junk too.....lol

 

[tomplum]

From what I see a Kohler Confidant is about as good as a recent Briggs Intek twin. No real issues with the Confident in my world. Rather see a Kawasaki sitting under the hood though. Used to love the Commands. They can be a bit overdone. Did things to them that never should have hit production. Like accelerator pumps and SAM to name a couple. You come across someone who has mistreated the carbs, man are the parts expensive. Courage twins need to be cared for, they weren't any worse than an Intek really. For those that have leaking tin valve covers on these, they do make a nice composite retrofit kit like the Command had. Both Briggs and Kohler single rider engines leave even much more to be desired.

 

[5030]

None of them will go much past 1200 hours unless it's an exception. That is about it. Pushing 900 on my Kawzloski 27 horse V twin. Probably puke next year, will be Pred time again.

 

[ruffdog]

Kawasaki mower engines are made in Maryville and Boonville MO.

Kohler vs Kawasaki: Which is the BETTER Engine? [2022]

KMM Engines - Welcome!

KMM Engines - Welcome!

 

[RandyT]

From what I see a Kohler Confidant is about as good as a recent Briggs Intek twin. No real issues with the Confident in my world. Rather see a Kawasaki sitting under the hood though. Used to love the Commands. They can be a bit overdone. Did things to them that never should have hit production. Like accelerator pumps and SAM to name a couple. You come across someone who has mistreated the carbs, man are the parts expensive. Courage twins need to be cared for, they weren't any worse than an Intek really. For those that have leaking tin valve covers on these, they do make a nice composite retrofit kit like the Command had. Both Briggs and Kohler single rider engines leave even much more to be desired.

Kohler's biggest mistake is trying to compete in the consumer market. They use to be exclusively commercial engines, You complain about the accelerator pumps, but on some mowers, if you had the engine rpm much above idle and engage the deck it will kill the engine without the accelerator pump.

The biggest issue with the SAM was the technology kept changing, And old analog SAM got replaced with the digital SAM, and then the digital SAM box became NLA, which led to the DSAI which had its own issues with voltage spikes, and the wiring changes to try to protect the electronics. Then the DSAI modules went NLA which led to the current MDI systems. And sometimes along that line the analog SAM box got discontinued, but you couldn't convert a ASAM to DSAM or DSAI.

I get asked what engines I work on the most so people can just reliability. And this year 90% of the engine repairs I have performed have been on Kawasaki. And I am not even a Kawasaki engine dealer.

 

[sd455dan]

Kawasaki mower engines are made in Maryville and Boonville MO.

Kohler vs Kawasaki: Which is the BETTER Engine? [2022]

KMM Engines - Welcome!

KMM Engines - Welcome!

Interesting that the one link states the Kawasaki engines average life hours at 3500 and the Kohler at 1000 hours.

 

[tomplum]

Kohler's biggest mistake is trying to compete in the consumer market. They use to be exclusively commercial engines, You complain about the accelerator pumps, but on some mowers, if you had the engine rpm much above idle and engage the deck it will kill the engine without the accelerator pump.

The biggest issue with the SAM was the technology kept changing, And old analog SAM got replaced with the digital SAM, and then the digital SAM box became NLA, which led to the DSAI which had its own issues with voltage spikes, and the wiring changes to try to protect the electronics. Then the DSAI modules went NLA which led to the current MDI systems. And sometimes along that line the analog SAM box got discontinued, but you couldn't convert a ASAM to DSAM or DSAI.

I get asked what engines I work on the most so people can just reliability. And this year 90% of the engine repairs I have performed have been on Kawasaki. And I am not even a Kawasaki engine dealer.

Interesting point of view. I've worked on a lot of Commands that were on fairly basic mowers too though. The accelerator pump observation was that it was costly and really not necessary sitting on something like a HOP with a 48" deck. I'll tip my hat to your comment about the larger decked machines though. Another way to reinvent the wheel. All these ignition systems that got converted ran well with the standard ignition. OEMs spec all that crap? Could be. I work on more Kawasaki every year then the last. Then again, I work on a lot of X Series and ZTRs that have them. When people ask me, frankly I tell them to stay away from the single cylinder engines all together for ride on equipment. For the average Joe, any of the twins do the job for the life of the equipment with some care.
My season started off with so many low hour PMs it was ridiculous. This past week I had a number of 1300 + hour machines. Two were Courages. One of those was running on one cylinder for the last 100 ? hours. Go figure. Still had 180# compression on both cylinders. Cylinder can't be too egg shaped yet...

 

[Tomtint]

You can get a lemon in any motor. I lunched a Honda with a rod through the block at 7 hours and Honda told me it was my fault. Put a HF Pred in it's place and lived happily ever after. Honda's are junk too.....lol

I can accept that you can get the said lemon ...But 4 strikes and you are out.

 

[big bubba]

IMO the 2015 and newer Kohlers arent worth a crap. But are still better than a majorityof the other brands out there. Also what model Kohler is on that zero turn? It really depends on the model as i see only the Command being the only good kohler engine still besides the agies and diesel kohlers.

helped a neighbor maintain a Kohler on a Bad Boy, not sure which model, prob mid line. the air filter set up was flimsy and vulnerable to contamination. that's all i needed, i'll stick w/my Kawi & B&S

 

[RandyT]

Interesting point of view. I've worked on a lot of Commands that were on fairly basic mowers too though. The accelerator pump observation was that it was costly and really not necessary sitting on something like a HOP with a 48" deck. I'll tip my hat to your comment about the larger decked machines though. Another way to reinvent the wheel. All these ignition systems that got converted ran well with the standard ignition. OEMs spec all that crap? Could be. I work on more Kawasaki every year then the last. Then again, I work on a lot of X Series and ZTRs that have them. When people ask me, frankly I tell them to stay away from the single cylinder engines all together for ride on equipment. For the average Joe, any of the twins do the job for the life of the equipment with some care.
My season started off with so many low hour PMs it was ridiculous. This past week I had a number of 1300 + hour machines. Two were Courages. One of those was running on one cylinder for the last 100 ? hours. Go figure. Still had 180# compression on both cylinders. Cylinder can't be too egg shaped yet...

The mower that I had the most issues with was the Poulan Pro 48" with the CV22. multiple mowers. If you engaged the deck at full idle and then reved it up you were fine. Try to start the deck at full throttle and it would kill it every time. The sudden load would overwhelm the full it could deliver Issue was also brought up in a past Kohler school update and event the factory techs related it back to a lack of accelerator pump on that engine.

For the average box store type customer the single cylinder engines are not a bad thing. The single intek for the most part is a decent engine excluding the head gasket failures, and the broken compression release on the camshaft and the need to keep a closer eye on the valve clearances. The early Courage singles has major issues, but Kohler got most of those bugs worked out. Everybody complained about the cracked blocks, and the broken counterbalance system, but how often did that actually happen and how many have went 7-800 hours, which for most exceeds the working life of the mower in most cases.

Look how many people complained about the plastic cam gear failures on Kawasaki engines. And the truth is that camshaft normally gave up the ghost around 800-1200 hours, which was passed the point that most people already abandoned that mower and replaced it with something new and shiny.

 

[5030]

I can accept that you can get the said lemon ...But 4 strikes and you are out.

Why I repower with Preds. Cheap Lifan built engines that for me have proven very dependable.

 

[5030]

Look how many people complained about the plastic cam gear failures on Kawasaki engines. And the truth is that camshaft normally gave up the ghost around 800-1200 hours, which was passed the point that most people already abandoned that mower and replaced it with something new and shiny.

Not me. Actually, my Cub Cadet 60" Tank commercial zero turn is a tank. Festooned with grease fittings and very robust built. Other than an infrequent spindle failure ( and I rebuild the spindles with new grease seals and bearings (which I always pull the inner seals on so the bearings can actually get grease) and the infrequent belt replacement and idlers, I fully expect it to last for many more years. It has around 900 hours on the Kawasaki. Valves get adjusted every fall, air filter replaced, oil filter replaced and fresh oil and twice a year I remove the shrouds and blow off the chaff that accumulates in the fins. If the motor fail, it will get a Pred. New blades every spring, I don't sharpen blades, I replace them. Getting time for new tires.

My wife has a CC RZT with the Courage motor that burns oil. Not a lot but I have to keep an eye on it. Not built nearly as heavy as the Tank but sho don't mow as much ground as I do.

Not about to buy a new one (either model). I'm quite capable of keeping them operating. Besides, the inflated cost of a new zero turn keeps my old ones operating. Get all my blades from ASC and have for years but I buy other stuff from them as well. Between them and Shoup, they keep the farm in replacement parts.

It's my contention that most non commercial mower owners don't perform required maintenance and basically let the machines go to hell.

 

[RandyT]

Not me. Actually, my Cub Cadet 60" Tank commercial zero turn is a tank. Festooned with grease fittings and very robust built. Other than an infrequent spindle failure ( and I rebuild the spindles with new grease seals and bearings (which I always pull the inner seals on so the bearings can actually get grease) and the infrequent belt replacement and idlers, I fully expect it to last for many more years. It has around 900 hours on the Kawasaki. Valves get adjusted every fall, air filter replaced, oil filter replaced and fresh oil and twice a year I remove the shrouds and blow off the chaff that accumulates in the fins. If the motor fail, it will get a Pred. New blades every spring, I don't sharpen blades, I replace them. Getting time for new tires.

My wife has a CC RZT with the Courage motor that burns oil. Not a lot but I have to keep an eye on it. Not built nearly as heavy as the Tank but sho don't mow as much ground as I do.

Not about to buy a new one (either model). I'm quite capable of keeping them operating. Besides, the inflated cost of a new zero turn keeps my old ones operating. Get all my blades from ASC and have for years but I buy other stuff from them as well. Between them and Shoup, they keep the farm in replacement parts.

It's my contention that most non commercial mower owners don't perform required maintenance and basically let the machines go to hell.

Most of the failed plastic cams were from around 1998-99 and were replaced with metal cams as they failed. Most mowers are not run that many hours. Working on a CC tank 60 right now that the Kaw engine has been giving me fits. Finally got it narrowed down to my stock of RN14YC spark plugs is faulty since the NGK BPR4ES seems to be out of stock that I would normally use. Currently running a set of BPR5ES.

 

[5030]

Most of the failed plastic cams were from around 1998-99 and were replaced with metal cams as they failed. Most mowers are not run that many hours. Working on a CC tank 60 right now that the Kaw engine has been giving me fits. Finally got it narrowed down to my stock of RN14YC spark plugs is faulty since the NGK BPR4ES seems to be out of stock that I would normally use. Currently running a set of BPR5ES.

Don't forget to grease it, especially the grease fitting on the pump belt idler that is up underneath. I might add that the Hydro Gear pumps get their fluid changed and filters every year as well. I had some issues with the pumps leaking fluid from the charge pump cover. Even replacing the 'O' ring didn't cure the issue so I took the die cast covers and flattened the mounting surface with a ******* cut file and replaced them and no more fluid loss. I see HG has an upgraded cover available now but mine are staying dry and yes, I marked them as to the correct orientation. Putting them on backwards equals no movement....lol I do like the fact you can renew the fluid and filters and I have the HG change kit with the fittings. Filters are a little pricey however.

Not sure what plugs I run, I clean them and reinstall and I think maybe I've changed them one time. My Kubota dealer is also a CC servicing dealer and I get to see some of the beat on flogged mowers that come in for repair (I work for them part time). People really don't take even marginal care of them.

Did have an issue early on with the Kawasaki, it dropped part of the alternator magnet in the flywheel and ate the stator too. I did the work myself and Kawasaki covered it under warranty. Other than that, no issues other than the Kawasaki engine is a pig on gas.

I think the one thing owners don't understand and that is, besides regular maintenance, you MUST keep the valves in adjustment. Easy to adjust but if they are out of spec, engine performance goes down the dumper and they start hard and loose power. That and removing the engine shrouds and blowing out the cooling fins on the motors. They are air cooled and need good air flow to stay cool.

Good units but like anything, you have to maintain them.

 

[5030]

Randy, New and Shiny don't work in today's economy, at least for me, but then I run a pair of 20 year old Kubota farm tractors too. They both might be Mary Kay pink but mechanically both are 100% and they stay that way.

 

[RandyT]

Randy, New and Shiny don't work in today's economy, at least for me, but then I run a pair of 20 year old Kubota farm tractors too. They both might be Mary Kay pink but mechanically both are 100% and they stay that way.

I run a 2005 Kioti DK45S for my big tractor, My riding mower is a 93 craftsman, and my off road cart tow machine is a 63 wheel horse.

 

[NoTrespassing]

I have a 22 year old Kohler with over 1,200 hours on a Walker zero turn mower.

 

[5030]

I have a 22 year old Kohler with over 1,200 hours on a Walker zero turn mower.

You may be on borrowed time but then again, maybe not, depending on how you maintain it.