Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments

   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #81  
... Either way I would DEFINITELY not go with a cab model - go ROPS if working in thick woods or your cab will get trashed.
Agree. I forgot to say that. Unless you expect to be up in there during winter months with snow and cold, delete the cab ! You save enough money by doing that to buy the transport trailer.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #82  
HI all,

I'm sure there have been 50,000 posts like this one posted over the years and just want to say thanks in advance to the community for being here to help people like me.

I'm about to purchase my first tractor and want to get some advice from those with knowledge/experience I don't have. I'll list out my situation and thoughts here as succinctly as I can, and then ask some questions. If there are things I should be considering or asking that I'm not, by all means, inform me.


I have a wooded property that we bought recently and need some equipment for various maintenance and improvements. We bought it purely as a recreational camping site for my family. No farming. No revenue will come from the tractor, so I am very sensitive to price. This is a spend on creating family experiences.

Mostly based on that cost sensitivity I've pretty much decided to go with an LS MT352. I was pretty shocked at how much better of a deal I can get it for than other comparable models from other vendors. TYM was pretty competitively priced with it, but I felt more comfortable with the LS for a lot fo reasons, not least of which because the dealer sells and services lots of LS's, but relatively few TYM's. I'd like thoughts of how appropriate this unit is for the situation I list out below.

The primary, and almost sole expected usage for the tractor will be earth moving. Part of the reason I was even able to afford the property is that it includes a large area that needs some serious cleanup and remediation. I will have to spend probably several years digging out a multi-acre area and removing earth from one area and using it to build up another.
My access to the land is over a 2 mile moutainous forest road that is only really an ATV trail right now. I will probably hire out for dozer work to do the initial road widening but will still need to do a lot of tractor work to clear areas, build good drainage, and maintain it over time. Several stretches of the road include pretty severe (to me) grades of up to around 20% that will need to be moderated and maintained so I can get a fifth wheel in to the property.

I will also be most likely putting in quite a bit of fencing ultimately. The land is pine and aspen forest covered everywhere except the areas that need the earth work. There are a few places where I will need to do some land clearing to add some roads and to make campsites. The property is moutainous so some of where I need to clear trails and work will be on hillsides.

I plan to buy a box blade for road maintenance as it seems to be the most versatile of the tools to shape and maintain a mountain road. I also will spend money to get forks as well as it just seems that everything I see online from tractor users kind of says that forks are just really super useful for a myriad of things.

Because of my usage needs, I figured it would be important to get a heavier frame compact tractor, but want it as small an overall size as possible in order to get into the trees as needed. I figured my priorities to be overall weight, frame strength, loader, and backhoe.

Because I'm a newb and will be using this for earth work primarily, I am planning to go with HST. Everything I read says this is what HST is designed for, I just need to get a powerful enough tractor to make up for any HST power loss (though I won't be using the PTO much really...)

I have a lot of deadfall so I think I'll use the forks at first but likely end up with a grapple over time, so I'll get a third function, or will get additional remotes on the back that I can run hoses from.

The land is pretty remote, with no structures or anywhere to take breaks, and a lot of the dirt I will be digging in will be dry and super dusty, so I am planning to get a cab.


So my questions are;


Backhoe -
  • LS specs their compact tractors with 2 levels of backhoe. a 2100 series, and a 3100 series. The 2100 series is a foot shorter and rated for about 2700lbs of breakout force. The 3100 is rated for about 1000 lbs more breakout force. The MT352 I'm looking at has a 2100 series backhoe installed. Since this is a tool I expect to use a lot, I told them I would only buy it if they swapped that out for the 3100 series, which they are doing for me.
  • I'm concerned by one youtube guys experience with this backhoe though, where the owner had continual serious failures using this backhoe.
  • For anyone who is not familiar, this backhoe is not made by LS. It is the same backhoe that is on Kioti's, and some others. and that is what confuses me. I haven't really read any bad reviews from Kioti owners or others. Definitely not the at the level of failures that this guy expereinced (like structural problems, etc.)
  • Anyone have any experience with the LS/Kioti backhoes?

What attachments should I be thinking about? -
  • I know I need the loader and backhoe. And am planning on box blade and forks. Are those the right attachments to be focusing on? should I be getting something different or additional?
  • One thing I am concerned about is clearing brush and ground. There are some areas where I want to clear some brush and create a new road. Would I be able to do this with a loader and box blade? Do I need to be thinking about getting something else as well?

Where to buy attachments -
  • My dealer offers box blades by Titan Implements, but it looks like that company has changed names and these are still labeled Titan. They also appear to be standard duty models. everything I've read makes me think that, for box blades, I need to buy as heavy duty as I can. So I think I'll pass on these. Also, generally I think it's a bad idea to buy things at dealers. Generally that's not where you find the best deals.
  • I was looking at Everything Attachments, and Woods (just because I have read good things about these brands). The EA box seems well designed, and is a little cheaper than the Woods, but the side walls are half as think as the Woods. The Woods weighs 680lbs, while the EA unit only weighs 515lbs.
  • Does anyone have experiene with these and give any advice?
  • What other brands should I be considering? Am I thinking the right way on these in the first place? Could I go cheaper??

  • Th backhoe comes with a 24" bucket, which seems really wide to me for that hoe. I am thinking I probably need to buy a 12" bucket as well.
    • am I thinking right on that?
    • where should I look for buckets?

How wide of a box blade should I get?
  • The tractor is 64" wide, so I am thinking I would want the 65" or 66" blades. Should I be looking at 72" blades instead? I will want to use it to create some drainage ditches beside the road and I'm thinking it may be an advantage to have a wider one (but also may be a paing to manage??)

Should I get my tires filled with Beet juice? and what is a normal cost to get that done?

The tractor comes with 2 rear ports. It can accomodate up to three. Should I have the third rear port added?
  • I am planning on installing a hydraulic top link on it, so that will leave 1 port. I am expecting to use that port for the backhoe.
  • I also expect that adding a third function for the loader will be too much $$, so I woud like to just run some hoses up from a rear remote.
  • This is where I want a little help because of my inexperience -- I think that, when I have the backhoe installed, I can just remove the hoses for the top link and free up that port. So I would be able to run the hoe and a loader third function at the same time. And if I am using the box blade, the hoe ports will be freed up to use for the top link. So that would mean that I only really need 2 ports.
  • But the 2 current ports only give me one detent port. I expect that I want 2 detent ports, wouldn't I?





Trailering -

I am planning to buy a 16 foot dump trailer to transport the tractor. I don't want to go bigger than a 16 footer, but by my best estimates I am expecting that the backhoe will hang over the end of the trailer.

Anyone have any experience transporting with a dump trailer? Good idea or bad? Anything I need to think of before I drive to pick up the tractor with the trailer?




anything else here I'm not considering that I should be?
For your use save your money for at least a 50 plus hp. Look at New Holland Workmaster 50 and buy similar specs. in any brand you like. This tractor will handle an 8 foot box blade and has the extra weight to offset your fork load.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #83  
For your use save your money for at least a 50 plus hp. Look at New Holland Workmaster 50 and buy similar specs. in any brand you like. This tractor will handle an 8 foot box blade and has the extra weight to offset your fork load.
The OP's problem is lack of experience. That makes him fixated on saving thousands on implements instead of being fixated on what tens of thousands spent on a tractor will actually do for him. For example, 50 HP in a utility size tractor would fix half of the problems that weve been trying to solve with a compact tractor - and the implements are the same cost. Sometimes larger implements are less costly. and of course the larger tractor can use somewhat smaller older implements but the reverse is not as true.

At this stage any experience is golden. Instead of hiring a bulldozer and a renting or buying a tractor all the way over at his new land, maybe he can find a similar job closer to home turf and rent a tractor to do that one. Winter is coming and that buys another year. A brother who has a trailer might also have work that needs doing.

rScotty
 
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #84  
What is a FECON track drive mulcher?


You can rent on of these and clear a great deal of land and then just rent
smaller equipment and accomplish things much more efficiently.

Using one of these with proper instruction from the FECON dealer will reap you
massive dividends as you are trying to accomplish with machinery that you have
no idea how to operate and with machinery that was never ment for land clearing.

I cannot link the youtube videos here, so you need to go to www.youtube.com and
type in FECON forestry mulcher.
 

Attachments

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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #85  
HI all,

I'm sure there have been 50,000 posts like this one posted over the years and just want to say thanks in advance to the community for being here to help people like me.

I'm about to purchase my first tractor and want to get some advice from those with knowledge/experience I don't have. I'll list out my situation and thoughts here as succinctly as I can, and then ask some questions. If there are things I should be considering or asking that I'm not, by all means, inform me.


I have a wooded property that we bought recently and need some equipment for various maintenance and improvements. We bought it purely as a recreational camping site for my family. No farming. No revenue will come from the tractor, so I am very sensitive to price. This is a spend on creating family experiences.

Mostly based on that cost sensitivity I've pretty much decided to go with an LS MT352. I was pretty shocked at how much better of a deal I can get it for than other comparable models from other vendors. TYM was pretty competitively priced with it, but I felt more comfortable with the LS for a lot fo reasons, not least of which because the dealer sells and services lots of LS's, but relatively few TYM's. I'd like thoughts of how appropriate this unit is for the situation I list out below.

The primary, and almost sole expected usage for the tractor will be earth moving. Part of the reason I was even able to afford the property is that it includes a large area that needs some serious cleanup and remediation. I will have to spend probably several years digging out a multi-acre area and removing earth from one area and using it to build up another.
My access to the land is over a 2 mile moutainous forest road that is only really an ATV trail right now. I will probably hire out for dozer work to do the initial road widening but will still need to do a lot of tractor work to clear areas, build good drainage, and maintain it over time. Several stretches of the road include pretty severe (to me) grades of up to around 20% that will need to be moderated and maintained so I can get a fifth wheel in to the property.

I will also be most likely putting in quite a bit of fencing ultimately. The land is pine and aspen forest covered everywhere except the areas that need the earth work. There are a few places where I will need to do some land clearing to add some roads and to make campsites. The property is moutainous so some of where I need to clear trails and work will be on hillsides.

I plan to buy a box blade for road maintenance as it seems to be the most versatile of the tools to shape and maintain a mountain road. I also will spend money to get forks as well as it just seems that everything I see online from tractor users kind of says that forks are just really super useful for a myriad of things.

Because of my usage needs, I figured it would be important to get a heavier frame compact tractor, but want it as small an overall size as possible in order to get into the trees as needed. I figured my priorities to be overall weight, frame strength, loader, and backhoe.

Because I'm a newb and will be using this for earth work primarily, I am planning to go with HST. Everything I read says this is what HST is designed for, I just need to get a powerful enough tractor to make up for any HST power loss (though I won't be using the PTO much really...)

I have a lot of deadfall so I think I'll use the forks at first but likely end up with a grapple over time, so I'll get a third function, or will get additional remotes on the back that I can run hoses from.

The land is pretty remote, with no structures or anywhere to take breaks, and a lot of the dirt I will be digging in will be dry and super dusty, so I am planning to get a cab.


So my questions are;


Backhoe -
  • LS specs their compact tractors with 2 levels of backhoe. a 2100 series, and a 3100 series. The 2100 series is a foot shorter and rated for about 2700lbs of breakout force. The 3100 is rated for about 1000 lbs more breakout force. The MT352 I'm looking at has a 2100 series backhoe installed. Since this is a tool I expect to use a lot, I told them I would only buy it if they swapped that out for the 3100 series, which they are doing for me.
  • I'm concerned by one youtube guys experience with this backhoe though, where the owner had continual serious failures using this backhoe.
  • For anyone who is not familiar, this backhoe is not made by LS. It is the same backhoe that is on Kioti's, and some others. and that is what confuses me. I haven't really read any bad reviews from Kioti owners or others. Definitely not the at the level of failures that this guy expereinced (like structural problems, etc.)
  • Anyone have any experience with the LS/Kioti backhoes?

What attachments should I be thinking about? -
  • I know I need the loader and backhoe. And am planning on box blade and forks. Are those the right attachments to be focusing on? should I be getting something different or additional?
  • One thing I am concerned about is clearing brush and ground. There are some areas where I want to clear some brush and create a new road. Would I be able to do this with a loader and box blade? Do I need to be thinking about getting something else as well?

Where to buy attachments -
  • My dealer offers box blades by Titan Implements, but it looks like that company has changed names and these are still labeled Titan. They also appear to be standard duty models. everything I've read makes me think that, for box blades, I need to buy as heavy duty as I can. So I think I'll pass on these. Also, generally I think it's a bad idea to buy things at dealers. Generally that's not where you find the best deals.
  • I was looking at Everything Attachments, and Woods (just because I have read good things about these brands). The EA box seems well designed, and is a little cheaper than the Woods, but the side walls are half as think as the Woods. The Woods weighs 680lbs, while the EA unit only weighs 515lbs.
  • Does anyone have experiene with these and give any advice?
  • What other brands should I be considering? Am I thinking the right way on these in the first place? Could I go cheaper??

  • Th backhoe comes with a 24" bucket, which seems really wide to me for that hoe. I am thinking I probably need to buy a 12" bucket as well.
    • am I thinking right on that?
    • where should I look for buckets?

How wide of a box blade should I get?
  • The tractor is 64" wide, so I am thinking I would want the 65" or 66" blades. Should I be looking at 72" blades instead? I will want to use it to create some drainage ditches beside the road and I'm thinking it may be an advantage to have a wider one (but also may be a paing to manage??)

Should I get my tires filled with Beet juice? and what is a normal cost to get that done?

The tractor comes with 2 rear ports. It can accomodate up to three. Should I have the third rear port added?
  • I am planning on installing a hydraulic top link on it, so that will leave 1 port. I am expecting to use that port for the backhoe.
  • I also expect that adding a third function for the loader will be too much $$, so I woud like to just run some hoses up from a rear remote.
  • This is where I want a little help because of my inexperience -- I think that, when I have the backhoe installed, I can just remove the hoses for the top link and free up that port. So I would be able to run the hoe and a loader third function at the same time. And if I am using the box blade, the hoe ports will be freed up to use for the top link. So that would mean that I only really need 2 ports.
  • But the 2 current ports only give me one detent port. I expect that I want 2 detent ports, wouldn't I?





Trailering -

I am planning to buy a 16 foot dump trailer to transport the tractor. I don't want to go bigger than a 16 footer, but by my best estimates I am expecting that the backhoe will hang over the end of the trailer.

Anyone have any experience transporting with a dump trailer? Good idea or bad? Anything I need to think of before I drive to pick up the tractor with the trailer?




anything else here I'm not considering that I should be?
Congratulations on your land purchase. You have obviously given a lot of thought to the tractor. And you are dead on regarding the HST. In the woods a gear drive tractor can get you killed. You want something that stops as soon as you let off the pedal. You also need 4WD. I am not familiar with the LS, but based on width, it sounds about right. I have a Mahindra 5035 HST, which seems a little bigger. I do suggest beet juice in the tires, especially if you are doing loader work. I ended up buying a 4-way bucket for mine. But I wish I had a grapple bucket; it would be better at handling logs and brush. For a box blade, I have used one from TSC. It has held up well. If you want a cheap way to drag logs, get a quick hitch and put a drawbar on the bottom. You can use the drawbar to pull heavy logs from a distance. When you can back the tractor up to them, you can use the top hook to lift one end of the log off the ground. But don't drag the logs with the top hook until you can lift the end of the log off the ground, or the front end of the tractor may come up. (I have not had that problem, possibly due to my very heavy 4-way bucket providing a lot of front ballast, but it is possible.) Good luck with your purchase!
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #86  
looks like you want to do some clearing off the start i would suggest you get a grappler, like a rootrake grappler you wont regret it … full on threes and brushes is harder to rip off then you can imagine.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #87  
One thing I didn't see (lots of good advice, just no time to read it all!). If you are going to be doing a lot of brush work, I think you'll want a grapple. A bucket isn't going to be efficient. They have grapples that require a third function (e.g. thumb) and those that do not. Both seem to work. The ones that do not have a 3rd function use the bucket mechanism to open close, so you lose a little bit of flexibility (see IQ Genius)

You may also want to look at a variation of a stump bucket so you can take care of moving and getting rid of brush more fluidly. Getting in place and then setup and turned around to dig with the backhoe and then back to driving can be a lot of changing around and using up precious time. A stump bucket will work for brush and small trees to dig it up without changing the seat around. When done, you can use the grapple to clear out the debris to your burn pit or chipper or pile, or however you want to dispose of it.

You mentioned something about using the rear hydraulics for third function. I think you probably won't like the ergonomics of that because you'll have to keep moving your hand forward and backward and back and forth and it'll just be super awkward. The front-accessible third-function on your loader is going to be the way to go if you plan on doing a lot of brush removal.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #88  
HI all,

I'm sure there have been 50,000 posts like this one posted over the years and just want to say thanks in advance to the community for being here to help people like me.

I'm about to purchase my first tractor and want to get some advice from those with knowledge/experience I don't have. I'll list out my situation and thoughts here as succinctly as I can, and then ask some questions. If there are things I should be considering or asking that I'm not, by all means, inform me.


I have a wooded property that we bought recently and need some equipment for various maintenance and improvements. We bought it purely as a recreational camping site for my family. No farming. No revenue will come from the tractor, so I am very sensitive to price. This is a spend on creating family experiences.

Mostly based on that cost sensitivity I've pretty much decided to go with an LS MT352. I was pretty shocked at how much better of a deal I can get it for than other comparable models from other vendors. TYM was pretty competitively priced with it, but I felt more comfortable with the LS for a lot fo reasons, not least of which because the dealer sells and services lots of LS's, but relatively few TYM's. I'd like thoughts of how appropriate this unit is for the situation I list out below.

The primary, and almost sole expected usage for the tractor will be earth moving. Part of the reason I was even able to afford the property is that it includes a large area that needs some serious cleanup and remediation. I will have to spend probably several years digging out a multi-acre area and removing earth from one area and using it to build up another.
My access to the land is over a 2 mile moutainous forest road that is only really an ATV trail right now. I will probably hire out for dozer work to do the initial road widening but will still need to do a lot of tractor work to clear areas, build good drainage, and maintain it over time. Several stretches of the road include pretty severe (to me) grades of up to around 20% that will need to be moderated and maintained so I can get a fifth wheel in to the property.

I will also be most likely putting in quite a bit of fencing ultimately. The land is pine and aspen forest covered everywhere except the areas that need the earth work. There are a few places where I will need to do some land clearing to add some roads and to make campsites. The property is moutainous so some of where I need to clear trails and work will be on hillsides.

I plan to buy a box blade for road maintenance as it seems to be the most versatile of the tools to shape and maintain a mountain road. I also will spend money to get forks as well as it just seems that everything I see online from tractor users kind of says that forks are just really super useful for a myriad of things.

Because of my usage needs, I figured it would be important to get a heavier frame compact tractor, but want it as small an overall size as possible in order to get into the trees as needed. I figured my priorities to be overall weight, frame strength, loader, and backhoe.

Because I'm a newb and will be using this for earth work primarily, I am planning to go with HST. Everything I read says this is what HST is designed for, I just need to get a powerful enough tractor to make up for any HST power loss (though I won't be using the PTO much really...)

I have a lot of deadfall so I think I'll use the forks at first but likely end up with a grapple over time, so I'll get a third function, or will get additional remotes on the back that I can run hoses from.

The land is pretty remote, with no structures or anywhere to take breaks, and a lot of the dirt I will be digging in will be dry and super dusty, so I am planning to get a cab.


So my questions are;


Backhoe -
  • LS specs their compact tractors with 2 levels of backhoe. a 2100 series, and a 3100 series. The 2100 series is a foot shorter and rated for about 2700lbs of breakout force. The 3100 is rated for about 1000 lbs more breakout force. The MT352 I'm looking at has a 2100 series backhoe installed. Since this is a tool I expect to use a lot, I told them I would only buy it if they swapped that out for the 3100 series, which they are doing for me.
  • I'm concerned by one youtube guys experience with this backhoe though, where the owner had continual serious failures using this backhoe.
  • For anyone who is not familiar, this backhoe is not made by LS. It is the same backhoe that is on Kioti's, and some others. and that is what confuses me. I haven't really read any bad reviews from Kioti owners or others. Definitely not the at the level of failures that this guy expereinced (like structural problems, etc.)
  • Anyone have any experience with the LS/Kioti backhoes?

What attachments should I be thinking about? -
  • I know I need the loader and backhoe. And am planning on box blade and forks. Are those the right attachments to be focusing on? should I be getting something different or additional?
  • One thing I am concerned about is clearing brush and ground. There are some areas where I want to clear some brush and create a new road. Would I be able to do this with a loader and box blade? Do I need to be thinking about getting something else as well?

Where to buy attachments -
  • My dealer offers box blades by Titan Implements, but it looks like that company has changed names and these are still labeled Titan. They also appear to be standard duty models. everything I've read makes me think that, for box blades, I need to buy as heavy duty as I can. So I think I'll pass on these. Also, generally I think it's a bad idea to buy things at dealers. Generally that's not where you find the best deals.
  • I was looking at Everything Attachments, and Woods (just because I have read good things about these brands). The EA box seems well designed, and is a little cheaper than the Woods, but the side walls are half as think as the Woods. The Woods weighs 680lbs, while the EA unit only weighs 515lbs.
  • Does anyone have experiene with these and give any advice?
  • What other brands should I be considering? Am I thinking the right way on these in the first place? Could I go cheaper??

  • Th backhoe comes with a 24" bucket, which seems really wide to me for that hoe. I am thinking I probably need to buy a 12" bucket as well.
    • am I thinking right on that?
    • where should I look for buckets?

How wide of a box blade should I get?
  • The tractor is 64" wide, so I am thinking I would want the 65" or 66" blades. Should I be looking at 72" blades instead? I will want to use it to create some drainage ditches beside the road and I'm thinking it may be an advantage to have a wider one (but also may be a paing to manage??)

Should I get my tires filled with Beet juice? and what is a normal cost to get that done?

The tractor comes with 2 rear ports. It can accomodate up to three. Should I have the third rear port added?
  • I am planning on installing a hydraulic top link on it, so that will leave 1 port. I am expecting to use that port for the backhoe.
  • I also expect that adding a third function for the loader will be too much $$, so I woud like to just run some hoses up from a rear remote.
  • This is where I want a little help because of my inexperience -- I think that, when I have the backhoe installed, I can just remove the hoses for the top link and free up that port. So I would be able to run the hoe and a loader third function at the same time. And if I am using the box blade, the hoe ports will be freed up to use for the top link. So that would mean that I only really need 2 ports.
  • But the 2 current ports only give me one detent port. I expect that I want 2 detent ports, wouldn't I?





anything else here I'm not considering that I should be?
You sound like you have thought it thru. 52hp, Cab, forks, HST all correct in my book. Front,third function you too will want. Hard piping up to the front of FEL arms, I hope. Push button on lever as a minimum, totally separate lever is wonderful, if they offer it. Teeth on bucket (bolt on) will help greatly in getting down into virgin ground as you grade the roadways. The Backhoe will have locks to keep it 'folded' up. No worries there. Yes, I loaded and towed with tilt bed. I lifted it a bit to cut the angle of the ramps. Pulled it in, then lowered trailer down. I set up chains so I pull in far, chain length for front is set so I run it thru a ring I have bolted in. Then back tractor up until that chain is tight (directly over the two trailer axles) then I run a rear chain thru a ring I have on my rear hitch and use a ratcheting chain binder to make that tight.
Does this LS come with Universal Skid Steer Quick Attach? You will want that. You don't want some Proprietary Quick attach, like what JD offers.
 
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   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #89  
You just opened Pandora's box on this site. You will have so many opinions and be so confused. I'll skip through all the B.S. and tell you what to look at, Kioti.

Good Luck.
 
   / Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments #90  
You can rent on of these and clear a great deal of land and then just rent
smaller equipment and accomplish things much more efficiently.

Using one of these with proper instruction from the FECON dealer will reap you
massive dividends as you are trying to accomplish with machinery that you have
no idea how to operate and with machinery that was never ment for land clearing.

I cannot link the youtube videos here, so you need to go to www.youtube.com and
type in FECON forestry mulcher.

Those FECON are incredible machines. If I lived in the eastern half of the country I'd own one.
But it just isn't appropriate for the type of woodland we have here.

The west is high desert. No humidity. It's dry, cold, sometimes windy, brilliantly sunny, and the soil runs to sand and gravel instead of clay. We just don't have underbrush and small trees to deal with. You can see - and drive a jeep on old dirt horse trails though the mountains that haven't been improved in 100 years. Trees get big, but are widely spaced or else stunted - or at the edges of woodlands. Wet areas grow aspen, but aspen don't have much for roots. Besides, we like our aspens. Open areas have sagebrush and bunch grass and you can see a hundred miles.. It just is completely different from the eastern woodlands.

Snow we get, and it gets deep..... but it's also different - it's a dry powdery snow.

Rocks we do have. If the FECON will eat rocks and spit gravel then I'm interested.

rScotty
 
 
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