Terrified of tipping - how about an inclinometer?

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I would think an inclinometer wouldn't do anything. If you run over something like a 6x6 post laying down tractor won't roll over but inclinometer would show too much tip.
Then if you had a sinkhole tractor could tip but too late for the inclinometer.
I have an area I bush hog that's super steep but I do it when ground is firm (no rain for days) and I back uphill, straight down forward slowly. An inclinometer would be something else to look at instead of where you're going.
If I feel unsure I just go straight downhill instead of across even if it takes longer, remembering heavy end uphill.

 

[DanMc77]

I had no idea that this post would be so controversial. Our land up in NH has no level ground. I glance at the inclinometer all the time as I go across sloped areas. It's very helpful when there is no reference for level. Keep the bucket low, have lots of weight on the back, and stay under 15 degrees. Look at the instrument panel on an airliner. Should they remove them so the pilots don't get distracted from flying?

 

[IndyIan]

Maybe get a new trailer? I run my tractor wide as I have no level land either and I don't want to tip it. For sure people have turned their tractor on its side on 10 deg slopes, but you have to be doing alot of things wrong. No ballast, something heavy on the FEL up a bit high, a bump, and a turn while moving briskly and over it would go. If you have an HST, you can put the tractor in 2wd on a side slope and do some testing, split the brakes and hold the downhill one and lift the loader a bit, you'll find it will get easier and easier to spin the uphill tire as you raise the loader. Do the same with a heavy ballast on the back, the difference is pretty significant.
If you have to move across a slope with something heavy in the bucket, go slow and skim it on the ground. The grass will recover just fine.

 

[DanMc77]

My 4600 usually has the 48 backhoe on it, so sometimes if I am nervous I'll swing the hoe around to act as counterweight. I'll also put the stabilizers down low sometimes.

 

[CobyRupert]

I could see an inclinometer being useful as a reference.
For me, my sense of fear is totally a mental perception effected by what’s in my peripheral vision than the reality of the slope’s angle. That is:
When I’m mowing a bank in a gully, I can feel “snug” down in the gully, where the tractor might only partially roll into the opposite bank a few feet away, it’s not scary at all.
Other times, when on at the top of a hill with a panoramic view, etc.., you feel like you’re going to fall off the top of the world and I have had to stop and walk away, yet I’m NOT EVEN CLOSE to the angle of the gully.
An inclinometer would ground both these perceptions in reality.

 

[beenthere]

If an inclinometer works for anyone here, go for it.

For those who get one, after more and more experience with the tractor, I'd expect that it will end up just another gadget that gets no attention at all.

For those taking on a scary slope, just keep in mind some fundamentals of the tractor.. un-locked brake pedals so if the tractor begins to tilt (tip) you do two things right away. Apply the uphill brake pedal and turn downhill. That will get the front end lower quickly and switch power/traction to the downhill wheel. This is prolly not an instinctive decision to make, so some pre-planning of what to do is a good idea.
Know your escape routes when on the sidehills.

 

[DanMc77]

"If an inclinometer works for anyone here, go for it.

For those who get one, after more and more experience with the tractor, I'd expect that it will end up just another gadget that gets no attention at all."

Agreed. When I first got the 4600 6 years ago, I watched a lot of videos of tractors rolling over. I had a farmer friend in junior high that was killed in a tractor accident, not rolling over, but flipping up and over while pulling another machine out of the mud. They did not use the drawbar, but had chains around the axles --- a recipe for disaster.

That set me up with a good healthy degree of fear of rolling, perhaps more than needed. Set the rear wheels as wide as possible, keep loads as low as possible, keep the rops bar up, and use the seat belt on slopes. If a rear wheel lifts, drop the loader immediately.

 

[JWR]

"If an inclinometer works for anyone here, go for it.

For those who get one, after more and more experience with the tractor, I'd expect that it will end up just another gadget that gets no attention at all."

Agreed. When I first got the 4600 6 years ago, I watched a lot of videos of tractors rolling over. I had a farmer friend in junior high that was killed in a tractor accident, not rolling over, but flipping up and over while pulling another machine out of the mud. They did not use the drawbar, but had chains around the axles --- a recipe for disaster.

That set me up with a good healthy degree of fear of rolling, perhaps more than needed. Set the rear wheels as wide as possible, keep loads as low as possible, keep the rops bar up, and use the seat belt on slopes. If a rear wheel lifts, drop the loader immediately.

Concur with all that. "Terrified" is a bad word and maybe only a poor choice of words (?) but if one is terrified in operating some piece of machinery you have no business on it. You need to be confident in the use AND comfortable, not terrified. At 167 posts this thread is crazy-long... but that is partly because all of us can identify with the issue to one degree or another. As I said 30 or more posts ago I had a JD4700 mechanically identical to your 4600. They are NOT tipsy by nature. Good low c.g as is. If your rear wheels are set out as wide as they will go (often limited by your trailer width) you are VERY UNLIKELY to be in danger of roll-over unless you are in places where you know darn well you do not belong !! I too lost friends in tractor accidental roll-overs. One especially was so very, very experienced I still can't believe it happened! He was bush hogging steep rough ground & gullies. Some mention of 15 degrees being effectively "onset of fear" or a threshold of safety is just too mild to make any sense. Unless you are mowing level sports field you WILL be on slopes that steep and steeper. If you can't be comfy on a 15% slope get off the machine and don't get back on.

I view/summarize this thread as follows: 1) Rear wheel spread is the main variable 2) Lowest c.g. is always safest, 3) Any gadget (e.g. inclinometer or whatever) is nothing more than a reference and 4) mainly YOU need to develop your own comfort level judgement. This is above all a JUDGEMENT issue. Good judgement keeps you alive in all matters and certainly in tractor operation too. Gadgets are nice in that you run along a side slope and check the gage and say "Oh that's OK, I'm comfy there" or glance at it at some moment when you feel you are on the edge of too much slope. That cut and try process gives you a range of % slope that you know (in the back of the mind) is your comfort range. A frame of reference is an excellent way to refine your good judgement , but that is all it is good for, NOT a gage to look at & depend on to tell you if you are comfortable or not !!

 

[jmc]

For those taking on a scary slope, just keep in mind some fundamentals of the tractor.. un-locked brake pedals so if the tractor begins to tilt (tip) you do two things right away. Apply the uphill brake pedal and turn downhill. That will get the front end lower quickly and switch power/traction to the downhill wheel. This is prolly not an instinctive decision to make, so some pre-planning of what to do is a good idea.

This is counter-intuitive to me. To turn sharply downhill, you need the uphill wheel turning faster than the downhill wheel. Braking the wheel you need to turn faster (uphill wheel) doesn't make sense.

 

[JWR]

This is counter-intuitive to me. To turn sharply downhill, you need the uphill wheel turning faster than the downhill wheel. Braking the wheel you need to turn faster (uphill wheel) doesn't make sense.

Correct. I agree it is bad advice. For sure... turn down hill. And for sure... forget the brakes which you do not have time to screw with anyway! beenthere may have meant to say apply the down hill brake which is potentially helpful but still poor advice -- just don't have time in general to mess with brakes.

 

[beenthere]

This is counter-intuitive to me. To turn sharply downhill, you need the uphill wheel turning faster than the downhill wheel. Braking the wheel you need to turn faster (uphill wheel) doesn't make sense.

I meant the uphill brake. That wheel has little to no traction which means it will tend to just spin in the air and not allow the tractor to move forward to execute a turn downhill.
Applying some brake to that wheel will remove its tendency to spin freely, and thus give needed traction and forward motion from the downhill wheel. Control the forward movement and traction needed by the amount of uphill braking applied.
If in a touchy situation, should automatically do this as there is little to no microseconds to think about it.

 

[PILOON]

Poor man's inclinometer.-----------------
- find center of windshield
- attach a 'plumb bob' there
- locate true center of that windshield and mark it as a reference.
- LOL, next drive such to lift the rear into a 'tip and spill' situation and carefully mark your plumb bob 'tilt angle'.
- Next, in the future keep the plumb bob well away from that 'tilt angle'

 

[dieselscout80]

Poor man's inclinometer.-----------------
- find center of windshield
- attach a 'plumb bob' there
- locate true center of that windshield and mark it as a reference.
- LOL, next drive such to lift the rear into a 'tip and spill' situation and carefully mark your plumb bob 'tilt angle'.
- Next, in the future keep the plumb bob well away from that 'tilt angle'

What a hoot

 

[JWR]

I meant the uphill brake. That wheel has little to no traction which means it will tend to just spin in the air and not allow the tractor to move forward to execute a turn downhill.
Applying some brake to that wheel will remove its tendency to spin freely, and thus give needed traction and forward motion from the downhill wheel. Control the forward movement and traction needed by the amount of uphill braking applied.
If in a touchy situation, should automatically do this as there is little to no microseconds to think about it.

Au contrare. There is no particular need for any change in rotation of the downhill rear tire to get the tractor pointed downhill for several reasons:
1) You were in some degree of forward motion to begin with or you would not be in the middle of a tip-over circumstance.
2) People should not be attempting to mow or navigate on that steepness of hill in the first place without 4WD and you sure don't need wheel brakes to keep the front wheels going just because the uphill rear got "light." As matter of fact, stomping on that uphill wheel brake in 4WD will essentially guarantee a greater likelihood of tipping. BOTH uphill wheels, front and back, need to rotate forward in order for you to "turn downhill." Forget the brakes.

 

[PILOON]

Yes, many people have added those over the years that I've been here on TBN. It's a great addition and keeps you honest (and maybe alive).

LOL, and your shorts clean!

 

[MossRoad]

LOL, and your shorts clean!

Tidy whiteys.

 

[beenthere]

Au contrare. There is no particular need for any change in rotation of the downhill rear tire to get the tractor pointed downhill for several reasons:
1) You were in some degree of forward motion to begin with or you would not be in the middle of a tip-over circumstance.
2) People should not be attempting to mow or navigate on that steepness of hill in the first place without 4WD and you sure don't need wheel brakes to keep the front wheels going just because the uphill rear got "light." As matter of fact, stomping on that uphill wheel brake in 4WD will essentially guarantee a greater likelihood of tipping. BOTH uphill wheels, front and back, need to rotate forward in order for you to "turn downhill." Forget the brakes.

For sure didn't say "stomping" on the uphill brake. Just a light touch to stop it from spinning with no traction. Forward motion stops when that happens. Little to do with power assist to the front wheels.
Learn the technique before going on sidehills and starting to tip. Might save your life.

 

[JWR]

For sure didn't say "stomping" on the uphill brake. Just a light touch to stop it from spinning with no traction. Forward motion stops when that happens. Little to do with power assist to the front wheels.
Learn the technique before going on sidehills and starting to tip. Might save your life.

Hey beenthere -- I was being a little sarcastic for which I apologize. Should not have said "stomping." But seriously any amount of braking on the uphill side in that hypothetical "about to tip" circumstance will be counterproductive. Counterproductive whether in 4WD or not. Will make things WORSE not better. It does have to do with power to the front wheels because (when in 4WD, engaged) braking applies to the front wheels as well as the back but that is not the main issue. You need ANY uphill wheel , still in contact with the ground, to "go faster" in order to participate in a downhill turn.

By the way, stopping that uphill wheel from spinning using the wheel brake causes the differential to force the DOWNHILL wheel to get the power and turn and forward motion does NOT stop! It rotates forward as a result. In fact, that amounts to an attempt to turn uphill which equals a disaster in progress.

The life saving technique is to forget the brakes, gain experience with your machine, turn downhill ASAP if you think you are about to unweight the uphill wheel or wheels, keep your c.g. as low as possible (usually lowering the loader as much as feasible), lookout for holes or ruts on the downhill side, and don't go on anything "too steep" to begin with. "Too steep" is based on your skills and experience not some meter, though the meter makes a nice reference while you are gaining experience.

 

[beenthere]

Believe what you want to believe.

 

[DonaldP]

Really good information here. Thanks to everyone who has offered experience or technical input!

There is pucker power in all instances of what you feel is your maximum.

At almost 800 hours in 2.5 years, starting from never having been in a tractor seat, I can honestly say that I have never experienced a tip issue losing a single side front or rear tire horizontally on a hill. (Side tilt).

There have been many many instances where, on relatively level ground, I was either surprised by or had to plan for 1 or more rear wheels losing ground contact with no front end loads or with heavy front end loads.

I had my rear wheels mounted out as far as they could go with rim orientation when I purchased the tractor new ... which adds about 4" per side of additional rear end width , or 8" total. That's a lot.

But still I find (with the 6" shorter wheelbase of the Kubota 3560 over it's big brother the 4060), that there is just way too little stance in wheelbase of the 3560 to compensate for the moment formed about the centerline of the tractor, with an FEL load and hitting a hole or stopping quickly, even with a posterior weight counterbalance (such as a 7ft finish mower weighing in at 400lbs or so).

The only real counterbalance on such a short machine as the 3560 is the BH92 Backhoe. That kicks in at about 2000 lbs if I'm not mistaken. But even more than the shear weight, is the extension of the backhoe, aft of the frame assembly.

By adding that much weight that far back, there is little issue with any of the aforementioned issues with regard to front to rear stabilization.

I have not yet experimented with side to side stabilization issues or lack there of while sporting the BH92 backhoe. Due to its height, at about level with the roof, but with the bulk of its weight being well below the center of gravity of the tractor I would think it would add some side to side stability. But in a situation where there is concern, one could swing the boom to the upside to give more stabilization... or downside to actually prevent a tipping situation when one is uncomfortable.

That world be a great review to experiment with for sure! Who or how many out there would like to see a video of that test in action?