Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[ETD66SS]

You are lookin at Maine.

Yep!

0 Gatehouse Drive, Bingham, ME 04920 | MLS #1528539 | Zillow

 

[ovrszd]

I have a gas boiler that designed to heat all three; domestic tap water 'on demand', house floor and shop floor. My garage is also on the network but I haven't used it in it's 20 years. It's just for future proofing incase there would ever be a need to make it a habitable space. Shop and two car garage are three separate zones. I even have a zone for an actual heated slab under an imaginary outside dog house that I've never got around to finishing
Anyway, on demand water heating doesn't work comfortably with a well and bladder pressure tank because the pressure range alters the exposure to the heat exchanger varying water temperature in the shower. Also, the boiler has to ramp up 30⁰F creating a delay in water temperature after the demand.
So, I bypassed the boiler and installed a conventional electric 40 gal DHW heater
The reason for two hydronic water heaters is because the shop and living quarters couldn't be more different in their heating requirements.

The way I understand it his living area is not hydronic heated. Maybe I missed something. Zones don't require additional heaters. Just additional circuits/pumps/thermostats.

 

[ETD66SS]

The way I understand it his living area is not hydronic heated. Maybe I missed something. Zones don't require additional heaters. Just additional circuits/pumps/thermostats.

I think it would be unless the radiant heat in the garage floor below is enough to heat the living space above???

 

[ovrszd]

I was assuming I'd have separate heaters. But I have not researched that part yet. All I know is I really want radiant heat. I'm sick and tired of forced hot air with my allergies & asthma.

I should have read down... you can certainly use hydronic heat for your living space. It will require some additional construction insulation and radiant barriers. No big deal. If you do that you will certainly want a third heater.

What are you going to do for AC?

 

[ovrszd]

I think it would be unless the radiant heat in the garage floor below is enough to heat the living space above???

No it will not.

 

[ETD66SS]

I should have read down... you can certainly use hydronic heat for your living space. It will require some additional construction insulation and radiant barriers. No big deal. If you do that you will certainly want a third heater.

What are you going to do for AC?

I want central air of some kind. I need it quite cold to sleep. But without ductwork, not sure how that will work. I don't think cooling the floors with the radiant heat would work for me.

 

[ETD66SS]

Now that I am pretty set on my Barndo floor plan (I think).

I need to finalize where to build it.

Where I show it currently is where I always planned my shop to be located. I ran conduit for power and separate conduit for coax cable under the driveway before I put down the fabric and the stone. The run going towards the ponds was for a house, the run going to the west was for a shop. I have 400A service, two sub panels with 200A breakers, one for each conduit run.

But now that I'm thinking I won't be building a house, the 167ft away from the ponds on my balcony might be too far away to enjoy the view?

However, if I do this, I stick to my original plan and if a house is ever in the cards in can go close to the ponds like I intended...

 

[JasperFrank]

I don't think radiant heat in the form of hydronic is sensible any more. I look at my hydronic heating system and just think, how stupidly over complicated it is. Its got an electric boiler, and a pump, and three zones that all have their valves to them. A pure resistance heater way would have been so much more simple.

 

[garc]

But now that I'm thinking I won't be building a house, the 167ft away from the ponds on my balcony might be too far away to enjoy the view?

I'm over 200 feet from my 50 meter pond (think Olympic pool) and the view is just right from my balcony

 

[Carl_NH]

I was assuming I'd have separate heaters. But I have not researched that part yet. All I know is I really want radiant heat. I'm sick and tired of forced hot air with my allergies & asthma.

Why not consolidate all into one utility room under the stairs (or in the ground floor) for the house and barn/shop so it's all in one place with your water pump/tank, DHW heat and radiant heat etc.

Then for cooling in summer and heating in the bridge seasons, install a mini split - a 12K single zone would do your whole upstairs - installed on the outside wall by the sectional sofa or DR table.

 

[garc]

The way to go with hydronic heating is to use a heat pump as the source instead of a boiler. That way you can also have cooling in the summer (from the floors).
You have the potential for the most efficient system using in ground coils (ground to water vs. air to water) since you can dig to your hearts content!
Consult an expert, but I would thing you could have the heat pump switch between house and shop. Your shop will have a massive thermal mass which will heat or cool very slowly and hold it's temp for a long time. You dominium is the opposite and will respond quickly to changes in input to the floor. Warmboard could be the best flooring system to date! ...

The last part of the video deals with an air to water heat pump but you can do one better in ground with your excavator. The operational cost factor with heat pumps is roughly 25% of boilers.
The advantage of in ground heat exchange (below the frost line) is better performance in the extremely cold weather which you occasionally get.

 

[ovrszd]

I want central air of some kind. I need it quite cold to sleep. But without ductwork, not sure how that will work. I don't think cooling the floors with the radiant heat would work for me.

No, cooling the floors that way won't work.. especially upstairs.

I just assumed you would have an HVAC system to heat/cool the living area. With scissor trusses you could put the ductwork above the ceiling? If not it would have to be under the floor.

Another option is mini splits. Google search them if you aren't familiar.

 

[ETD66SS]

I'm over 200 feet from my 50 meter pond (think Olympic pool) and the view is just right from my balcony

If I recall you're up on a hill? My lot is completely flat. I have parked my 575D and raised the FEL and climbed in it at about balcony height, and the view seems ok, but it's not jaw dropping etc.

Here are some pics of what the view would look like if I were standing on a stone patio right outside of the living room of my stick frame house design.

 

[ETD66SS]

The way to go with hydronic heating is to use a heat pump as the source instead of a boiler. That way you can also have cooling in the summer (from the floors).
You have the potential for the most efficient system using in ground coils (ground to water vs. air to water) since you can dig to your hearts content!
Consult an expert, but I would thing you could have the heat pump switch between house and shop. Your shop will have a massive thermal mass which will heat or cool very slowly and hold it's temp for a long time. You dominium is the opposite and will respond quickly to changes in input to the floor. Warmboard could be the best flooring system to date! ...

The last part of the video deals with an air to water heat pump but you can do one better in ground with your excavator. The operational cost factor with heat pumps is roughly 25% of boilers.
The advantage of in ground heat exchange (below the frost line) is better performance in the extremely cold weather which you occasionally get.

I had Warmboard in my ICF house design, it was one of the things that made the estimate explode. So now I'm thinking for the living space I would just go the more traditional route and put the tubing on the underside of the sub-floor with heat reflectors & insulation etc.

 

[garc]

Please forgive me, I took some more liberties, LoL.

1: addressing OCD
2: easier access and reducing bruised hips
3: better fit ???
4: cross ventilation (fresh air when sleeping)

 

[ETD66SS]

Please forgive me, I took some more liberties, LoL.

1: addressing OCD
2: easier access and reducing bruised hips
3: better fit ???
4: cross ventilation (fresh air when sleeping)

Those are all pretty good tweaks. I guess I don't really need all that extra countertop at the entry once I took away the old pantry.

I would have to think about the second window in the bedroom, would require moving and adding another post. I don't sleep with windows open, I sleep with AC cranked.

 

[garc]

If I recall you're up on a hill?

You are quite right about the hill; totally forgot! Your balcony puts you up nine feet and mine puts me at ground level for the other side of the house but there is probably another ten feet of slope beyond the garage below over the 200 feet so I guessing I'm roughly 20 feet above the pond level.

Regardless, you still have a lovely view especially if you trim the tall grass around the edge of the your pond

 

[ETD66SS]

Regardless, you still have a lovely view especially if you trim the tall grass around the edge of the your pond

Most of it is, but I leave sections like that for wildlife purposes.

 

[LouNY]

I like radiant floor heat the source of the heat could be any type of boiler or "hot" water heater. I am a
believer in backup heat sources so I'd go for two heating sources with the ability to valve either one to either
the garage or house or both. In NY I wouldn't go with an electric boiler but I consider most any other fuel.
The elevated balcony some distance from the pond may decrease the number of mosquitos.
I would also go with the mini-split for AC and supplemental heating some of the newer ones will be quite efficient even below zero.
Trying to cool the floor to cool the building will result in wet floors.

 

[ETD66SS]

I like radiant floor heat the source of the heat could be any type of boiler or "hot" water heater. I am a
believer in backup heat sources so I'd go for two heating sources with the ability to valve either one to either
the garage or house or both. In NY I wouldn't go with an electric boiler but I consider most any other fuel.
The elevated balcony some distance from the pond may decrease the number of mosquitos.
I would also go with the mini-split for AC and supplemental heating some of the newer ones will be quite efficient even below zero.
Trying to cool the floor to cool the building will result in wet floors.

I would like to do geothermal someday. And if the ban on NG and LP goes thru, starting in 2030 we can no longer buy gas appliances. Stupid government... I still plan to put in NG anyways, as I have it on my street.