New rules for ethanol in gasoline

   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #61  
I do know the major power sports companies seem to be switching to efi systems, even simpler throttle body designs on entry level contraptions to help combat burning down the top end, carb issues, when running ethanol and to better meet EPA and eu regs.
"Seem to be switching"? My snowmobile is 22 years old and it has EFI, as did my previous one which was late 90s vintage. My ATV, which is late 00s vintage is also EFI. Can't say for certain that no one still makes a carbureted model, but power sports gear has embraced fuel injection for quite some time now.

No issues with E10 fuel on either one.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #62  
"Seem to be switching"? My snowmobile is 22 years old and it has EFI, as did my previous one which was late 90s vintage. My ATV, which is late 00s vintage is also EFI. Can't say for certain that no one still makes a carbureted model, but power sports gear has embraced fuel injection for quite some time now.

No issues with E10 fuel on either one.

Bombardier used to do a 600 snowmobile with carbs, last year was the last edition this year they have a new engine with EFI... I think the only one left with carbs is the polaris indy 550
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #63  
"Seem to be switching"? My snowmobile is 22 years old and it has EFI, as did my previous one which was late 90s vintage. My ATV, which is late 00s vintage is also EFI. Can't say for certain that no one still makes a carbureted model, but power sports gear has embraced fuel injection for quite some time now.

No issues with E10 fuel on either one.
I believe power sports companies have been dabbling with efi systems for over 30 yrs early 90s Polaris Indy 500 comes to mind, not the most reliable initially though. That was also around the time when I remember seeing early fuel delivery issues on traditional carbs. Including hardened brittle fuel lines, leaking fuel bowls, frozen stuck needle valves, and dreaded widespread top end meltdowns. 5 yrs ago or so all smaller somewhat affordable entry level snowmobiles 600 cc and less were, carbureted, and usually fan cooled. Now skidoo, Yamaha, Arctic scrap all offer smaller cc lighter more affordable snowmobiles with simpler efi.
 

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   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline
  • Thread Starter
#65  
No issues with E10 fuel on either one.
But E15 might very well be.. Thinking about motorcycles and all those carbed HD's... Not good. I know the AMA was pushing for the abolishment of E15. Guess they lost the battle.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #66  
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #68  
So does mine and so do ALL the small engines I own.




According to the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute (OPEI), small engine-powered equipment is not designed to run on anything greater than E10. Improperly filling your lawn equipment with E15 could result in irreversible engine damage, in addition to exposing operators to a variety of safety risks.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #69  
The rule change is not forcing anything on anybody. It is just allowing E15 to be an option in the winter. I buy E0 most of the time for all my gas equipment or I could go all the way up to E85 on the truck. Nothing is changing for me with the rule change. Why get worked up about it?

Because in all too many locations E0 is impossible to find! None available in my area until about 3 years ago. Now we have one station that has one pump with E0. It is the ONLY station carrying E0 within 130 that I know about. So if the stations decide to go to E15, what do we fuel our equipment with?
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #70  
Rule change proposed is to allow stations that sell E15 in addition to E10 to be able to offer it as a purchase option year round not just seasonally.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #71  
Slightly political but not meant to be...

I'm sure our wonderful President and the powers to be don't mow their own lawns or blow their own snow or trim their own trees. That is all below them. They hire it out I'm pretty sure so they really don't care. Just change the rules of engagement because it don't directly impact them anyway.
That's a way-oversimplified view of government.

Start:
1) Pressure put on Congress, not the president, from the public or industry lobbyists - "Do Something!!! We can't sell all this corn!!"

2) Budget some agency, maybe EPA, to look into it.

3) Examine the topic. EPA trained professionals or if none, hire consultants. Hopefully, neutral but don't count on it.

4) EPA or somebody proposes relevant legislation. This is where the 'Stakeholders' (corn, fertilizer, transportation, farm equipment interests in this case), maybe sometimes the public, lobby Congress to make the result come out to their benefit. Sometimes the original goal is abandoned and redirected to the benefit of only the Stakeholders. Aircraft carriers for the shipbuilders, not because the military requested another?

5) Legislation worked out in Congress, resulting from all the lobbying, finally gets sent to the President for signature or veto. He/she didn't initiate the process, just wraps it up. And takes the heat for it, from some media. And some people pile on.

Yeah, PolSci undergrad degree here. I wanted to know how things work.

It was discouraging.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline
  • Thread Starter
#72  
Trying to keep it simple (KISS) and not jump off the political cliff which causes a thread to get locked on this site.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #74  
Ran into a repair guy at the one store near us that still sells 100% gas. He said they keep a stock of replacement fuel caps for a particular chain saw brand because ethanol swells the caps and the locals that try to burn ethanol in them can't get the caps off when they swell.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #75  
Trying to keep it simple (KISS) and not jump off the political cliff which causes a thread to get locked on this site.
So if you don’t want it to go political, why do you take it there?
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #76  
Some places may offer both E10 and E15. But smaller stations may not be able to carry so many mixtures.

Study the history of modern ethanol use. It was not driven by agriculture, it was driven by the 1970s oil crisis. Corn was already in high demand as people (and to a larger extent) animal food. Subsidies exist for farm products because people like to eat.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #78  
No one is forcing anyone to use E15. E10 will still be available in those places.

The whole thing is a dog whistle.
NOT!

That's been a subject of discussion in northern Nevada for a couple months. All of our gasoline comes from one refinery in northern California. Gasoline suppliers have stated they will offer one or the other; if E15 is what the government recommends then all the pumps will go to E15. They will not have pumps at a station that offer regular in either E10 or E15.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #79  
NOT!

That's been a subject of discussion in northern Nevada for a couple months. All of our gasoline comes from one refinery in northern California. Gasoline suppliers have stated they will offer one or the other; if E15 is what the government recommends then all the pumps will go to E15. They will not have pumps at a station that offer regula

One more time incase you missed it before. Gov not telling you to sell E15, they are letting stations sell E15 in non-winter months. So the gov is getting out of telling the station they can only sell E15 during the winter and have to switch back to E10, it's up to the station.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #80  
Before ethanol, the oil companies were using MTBE as a fuel oxygenator. In 2006 it was banned for health and environmental reasons. Alcohol also can be used as an oxygenator and it is WAY safer and much easier to clean up in case a spill happens. Also, we can make it from corn that helps farmers instead of depending on a chemical company (MTBE).

Engines that run fuel with an oxygenator tend to run hotter, hence the warning on running it in air-cooled engines.
 

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