Cyclone 200ES attached to generator?

[ArlyA]

​

If we purchased a generator with 240 output to power this unit, what size might we need? thanks!

CLN-200ES



120/240, GMAW/SMAW Spoolgun


Download Manual:
Cyclone 200ES Manual
Downloads:

How do we compare?

Brochure
SKU: CLN-200ES
$639.00 You Save - $10.00
$629.00
Weight: 30 lb
Dimensions: 18 in × 9 in × 13 in
Additional Images:



The all digital Cyclone 200ES is a updated model of the popular Cyclone 200E MIG welder. Don't worry, it still retains all the things of the Cyclone 200E. It's still a good MIG welder with 200A capability, and a 25% duty cycle at 180A. Nothing has changed as far as that goes. However, this new MIG model now features stick welding capability for a more complete welder package. (Electrode holder and capable are options however, see options for link.) With 160A stick output, the unit is capable of using up to a 1/8" welding rod, more than enough for your average stick welding needs. And if stick won't do, the unit also features a Flux-Cored mode for those times when the wind is too much for MIG. Since the unit retains it's small size and weight, these additional features make it a perfect choice for carrying with you when you don't know quite what to expect when you get to the job site.
The PowerSet function helps you to get up and running quickly, without having to refer to complicated charts or calculators. Simply enter the basic parameters of what you are working with, and the unit will automatically set the output for you. Of course, if your work position or welding style doesn't exactly give you the perfect setting, you can fine tune the settings, but the machine won't let you get too far off track from making a sound weld. If you don't need or want the setup assistance that PowerSet provides, the manual mode is always available. In PowerSet mode, you have settings for MIG with 75/25 Ar/CO2, MIG with 100% CO2 and Flux-Cored (gasless) wire. If you need to weld Aluminum, it can be used in manual mode.
The Cyclone 200ES has a display that is clear and bright. The settings are easily visible at a distance, even in bright sunlight or lighting conditions.
Even though the Cyclone 200ES is very compact and lightweight, the unit still allows the use of up to 8" rolls that weigh up to 12 lbs. Of course, you can use 4" rolls as well, or if you prefer, you can purchase a spool gun to use those in as well, especially for Aluminum applications (Aluminum for use with Manual mode only).

Vertical Tabs​

• Product Features(active tab)
• What's Included
• Options
• Recommended Uses
• Tech Specs
• Notes
• Minimum/Maximum

Features & Benefits:

• Digital IGBT Inverter design
• MIG and Stick capabilty (Stick Electrode Holder is optional)
• Bright, high visibilty LCD Digital Display
• PowerSet mode simplifies setup
• Stable Arc performance
• Simplified, easy operation
• Low spatter
• Weld with 4" or 8" wire rolls
• Drive Roll V Groove .023"-.030" (equipped)
• Up to .035" solid (Hard) wire capacity with optional Drive Rolls
• .030-.045" Flux-Cored (gasless) capacity with optional Drive Rolls and MIG gun liner change
• 25% Duty Cycle at 180 amps
• 200 Max amps
• Duty Cycle/Overcurrent Protection (auto-stop)
• Dual Voltage 1 phase 120/240V
• 15 series MIG Gun
• Spool Gun capability
• Power Cable 6.5 ft.

• Welding Products (140)
  • TIG Welders (37)
  • MIG Welders (26)
    • MIG (4)
    • MIG/Stick (3)
    • Pulse MIG/Stick (2)
    • MIG/TIG/Stick (5)
  • Stick Welders (12)
  • Plasma Cutters (29)
  • Multi Process: TIG/Stick/Plasma (14)
  • Multi Process: MIG/TIG/Stick (12)
  • Multi Process: MIG/Stick/Plasma (1)
  • Water Coolers (4)
  • Generators (5)
• Parts (124)
• Accessories and Equipment (169)
• Consumables (238)

 

[CobyRupert]

I couldn’t open the link for the manual. Somewhere in the manual, it probably list the input amps, or minimum circuit size, required.
This amperage, times 240volts, is the input power requirement (measure in VA (volt amps). This is roughly equivalent to the input wattage required from a generator.
Then the question becomes, how fast can the generator react to that (wattage) (starting) demand surge (which is a function of the engine’s governor’s response time and hp/torque curve) and not suffer a (temporary) rpm/voltage dip that significantly effects the welder’s performance.
People often upsize another 30% to compensate for these starting surges.

 

[ArlyA]

I couldn’t open the link for the manual. Somewhere in the manual, it probably list the input amps, or minimum circuit size, required.
This amperage, times 240volts, is the input power requirement (measure in VA (volt amps). This is roughly equivalent to the input wattage required from a generator.
Then the question becomes, how fast can the generator react to that (wattage) (starting) demand surge (which is a function of the engine’s governor’s response time and hp/torque curve) and not suffer a (temporary) rpm/voltage dip that significantly effects the welder’s performance.
People often upsize another 30% to compensate for these starting surges.

This was copied from the manual. So at 240V 15A input is minim?
-----------------------------------------------------
Specifications
Product Specifications Cyclone 200ES
Construction Type Inverter (IGBT based, Digital Control)
Input Voltage 120/240V(± 10%) 50/60 Hz
Phase 1 Phase 50/60Hz
I1MAX Current Rating (Inrush Amps) 120V @ 30.2A 240v @ 28.2A
I1EFF Current Rating (Rated Amps) 120V @ 16A 240V @ 15A
OCV 70V
Processes GMAW/FCAW/SMAW
(FCAW requires purchase of optional drive rolls)

 

[yomax4]

Lots of variables to this question. Depends some on if you want to run the welder at 1/2 or full capacity. I do a reasonable amount of 14ga tubing out in the woods at 16-18v on the welder running off a 6K watt inverter generator. If you want to weld 3/8 you will need 8-10K watts. Big difference between a generator and an inverter generator. You'll get a headache reading up on all the variables. Good luck.

 

[ArlyA]

Lots of variables to this question. Depends some on if you want to run the welder at 1/2 or full capacity. I do a reasonable amount of 14ga tubing out in the woods at 16-18v on the welder running off a 6K watt inverter generator. If you want to weld 3/8 you will need 8-10K watts. Big difference between a generator and an inverter generator. You'll get a headache reading up on all the variables. Good luck.

1/4 inch is my max.

 

[cqaigy2]

Mark might have an idea.

 

[ArlyA]

Mark might have an idea.

I hope he responds. If not I'll email the co. I see used generators coming up FS on facebook and craigs list all the time.

 

[jwmorris]

If you want it to run like in your shop you’ll want a generator capable of this output.

Cyclone 200ES - MIG Welders | Everlast Generators

The all digital Cyclone 200ES is a updated model of the popular Cyclone 200E MIG welder. Don't worry, it still retains all the things of the Cyclone 200E. It's still a good MIG welder with 200A capability, and a 25% duty cycle at 180A. Nothing has changed as far as that goes. However, this new...

www.everlastgenerators.com

If it’s less like the ~ 50% less maximum rated amps, you’ll probably notice it every time you pull the trigger. Unless you are asking less from it. Looks like 1/4” is it’s maximum for single pass. So I’d want the most power to it. If it’s less, it won’t even be able to do that.

 

[5030]

Because it's electronically controlled, I'd be careful about what genny I bought. Conventional genny's have a lot of harmonic distortion that may fry the electronics. If it was me, I'd be buying a capable (amperage output) inverter genny. Be apprised however, they aren't a cheap date compared to a conventional 2 pole genny.

 

[CobyRupert]

This was copied from the manual. So at 240V 15A input is minim?
-----------------------------------------------------
Specifications
Product Specifications Cyclone 200ES
Construction Type Inverter (IGBT based, Digital Control)
Input Voltage 120/240V(± 10%) 50/60 Hz
Phase 1 Phase 50/60Hz
I1MAX Current Rating (Inrush Amps) 120V @ 30.2A 240v @ 28.2A
I1EFF Current Rating (Rated Amps) 120V @ 16A 240V @ 15A
OCV 70V

I1EFF=15A, is the minimum circuit size that should be provided. 240V/15A is 3600 Watts input (this equates to 5hp power input)
The inrush (surge), I1Max, at 240V/28.2A is 6768Watts peak input (this equates to 9hp peak input).
Again, the motor/gen you pick has to make that horsepower/watts at the rated rpm/frequency, the governor has to react and it has the torque to recover.
Going bigger only hurts your wallet.

 

[5030]

Just keep in mid the frequency part. That is what will fry the electronics in that welder, why I suggest an inverter genny because they maintain 60 hertz even during excessive inrush load. Like I said, they aren't cheap but no point in toasting the welder either.

The issue with any conventional genny is, when the welder requires the amperage and the engine drive drops in RPM, the hertz also drops as the the genny armature slows before the engine governor can recover.. That don't happen with an inverter genny as the Hertz is electronically stabilized inside the generator. I have a Champion myself. Good unit but not cheap.

 

[WranglerX]

According to welding site I frequent (Hobart) the wattage capabilities of the generator should be at least 50% more than demand of welder... The reason being is the rotating mass of rotor in generator is small enough that if welder bog down generator excessively (surge requirement when arc is struck) it drops out voltage and frequency of generator when it bogs down and can not recover needed rpm fast enough to maintain correct power demand of welder and may cause damage to electronics in welder...

IF welder (not surge) draws 18 amps at 240 volts that is approximately 4080 watts.... And if the 50% theory is correct that would dictate a generator that is rated at a little over 7000 watt capable.... Yes its the inrush demand the is critical not the maintained wattage once initial surge is over come... Of course these figures are for if welder is being used at maximum capability, if you are always below welder max, you can dial back generator needs some....

Amps to watts (W) conversion calculator

Amps (A) to watts (W) conversion calculator.

www.rapidtables.com

 

[ArlyA]

So if we stay over or in the 7000 watts area, we might make it work. Welding 1/4 thick steel material with wire seems the most I ever work with.

 

[5030]

Generators Direct sells the complete Champion Line and others as well. Where I bought mine.

 

[CobyRupert]

Besides the engine size, where you’re operating in the hp/torque curve, and the governor response; the system’s (motor/generator/flywheel) inertia will effect the rpm/voltage/frequency dip and recovery when your sizing within close margins.

 

[ArlyA]

Besides the engine size, where you’re operating in the hp/torque curve, and the governor response; the system’s (motor/generator/flywheel) inertia will effect the rpm/voltage/frequency dip and recovery when your sizing within close margins.

So I should be looking at larger than the 7000 watts area?

 

[WranglerX]

So I should be looking at larger than the 7000 watts area?

Would not hurt to be bigger, the extra generating capacity may not be a wasted investment and a bit better (bigger) engine may respond to surges better....

 

[jwmorris]

Because it's electronically controlled, I'd be careful about what genny I bought. Conventional genny's have a lot of harmonic distortion that may fry the electronics.

Just keep in mid the frequency part. That is what will fry the electronics in that welder, why I suggest an inverter genny because they maintain 60 hertz…

In the past, I have connected one leg of an incandescent light bulb to the generator and another to land power. If the frequency of the generator is not the same as land power the bulb with flash vs stay on like normal. The speed on the generator is then adjusted so the bulb stays on continuously and you‘re there and didn’t even need to get out the oscilloscope.

 

[5030]

The new multimeter I just purchased to replace my ancient and failing Fluke has a frequency setting on it, 10 to 1000 Hz. Again, I would never use a conventional 2 pole portable gas generator to power any electronically controlled welder. Taking a chance with the frequency variations when the welder requires a jump in generated amperage and it slows down before the governor recovers. With an inverter generator, the frequency remains stable because the frequency is electronically generated within the generator unit.

My Champion Inverter maintains 60 hertz constantly, no matter what the imposed load is. The voltage and output amperage may drop as the governor responds to the load but the unit maintains 60 hertz constantly. That is very important when dealing with electronics in anything powered by a portable generator.

The issue is of course, Inverter generators are expensive compared to a conventional 2 pole generator where the frequency is a product of the spinning armature spinning at 3600 rpm. When the rpm drops off due to load, the frequency also drops off.

 

[5030]

Most conventional 2 pole generators don't produce true sine wave power anyway. They produce a' modified sine wave' which some electronically controlled devices don't like anyway. Inverter generators produce true sine wave power. With me, my philosophy is, you pay for the generator once and you don't compromise or fry any electronics.