Hydraulic winch and other general PT usability questions

[agjones]

I think that you have the attachment design accurately described.

I would characterize the PT approach to design as "KISS", which makes the attachments lightweight, inexpensive, repairs easy, and generally quick. Pump replacement on the engine would be a definite exception, but not worse than skid steer repairs.

Yes, brush cutters are always a flying debris for any machine. I brush cut with a logging helmet with a wire mesh face shield. I have never been hit with anything more than a ricochet twig, but I don't want to push my luck. The set up of the PT brush mowers is such that under normal operation the flying debris tends to go forward or under the tractor if the mower is on the ground. I don't brush cut near people or buildings. I think that there was someone here that did polycarbonate front shield and someone who did a woven wire mesh one, but that is just from memory. I.e. not common.

All the best,

Peter

I put a marguard (bullet proof polycarbonate) on my 1850 when I mated a 5.5ft flail mulcher to it. Keeps me from getting whacked.

 

[SpringHollow]

I already have a couple of rope winches, but would really like a power winch.

I've seen a post or two here cautioning that a capstan winch can be dangerous. Also, I'd prefer to be using metal cable instead of rope. There are some lewis style chainsaw winches that appear to use metal cable, but are there any portable winches that I could anchor to a tree that use metal cable and a regular gas engine instead of a chainsaw as the power source?

I would much rather have a capstan winch with rope than a steel cable winch. It seems like a much safer and more versatile setup than a traditional winch with steel cable. It is very important to use the correct low stretch rope. Check out portablewinch.com. I have done a fair amount of logging with them and they have some neat equipment if you are redirecting to a landing - automatic releases so you can do turns from a single pull.

Ken

 

[2manyrocks]

One problem with the area I need to work is that there are some thorn trees in the area I'd have to use as the access point. A portable winch wouldn't get any flat tires and could be anchored to other trees on the hillside more easily than working with a tractor if the portable winch can handle the load.

A tractor mounted winch would have 3x the rated capacity of the portable winch, be faster, and retain its resale value. There is limited room to turn and there is a hill on the upside of the area I need to clear. I'd have to use pulleys and redirects to pull the debris up the hillside to get it out of the way.

 

[MossRoad]

One problem with the area I need to work is that there are some thorn trees in the area I'd have to use as the access point. A portable winch wouldn't get any flat tires and could be anchored to other trees on the hillside more easily than working with a tractor if the portable winch can handle the load.

A tractor mounted winch would have 3x the rated capacity of the portable winch, be faster, and retain its resale value. There is limited room to turn and there is a hill on the upside of the area I need to clear. I'd have to use pulleys and redirects to pull the debris up the hillside to get it out of the way.

If you already have the tractor, you could certainly purchase a new or used forestry winch for the 3pt hitch, do the job, then sell it at nearly what you paid for it.

That would seem to be the prudent thing to do VS buying a whole nuther machine for one job. Especially if you're planning on keeping the Kubota.

 

[2manyrocks]

I am leaning that way.

One option is to clear the ground cover at the access so there aren't any thorns to puncture my L2501 tires, and then use a forestry winch. My concern with the portable capstan winch is not having enough pulling capacity as well as speed of operation. If I order the forestry winch soon, I'd hope to have it on hand by this winter when I'd do this job.

 

[ponytug]

I am leaning that way.

One option is to clear the ground cover at the access so there aren't any thorns to puncture my L2501 tires, and then use a forestry winch. My concern with the portable capstan winch is not having enough pulling capacity as well as speed of operation. If I order the forestry winch soon, I'd hope to have it on hand by this winter when I'd do this job.

Having dealt with thorns, I would encourage you to preemptively slime your tires before you start.

The great thing about capstan winches is that you can get long rope(s), and use snatch blocks. Have a look at some of the rope rollers and snatch blocks that Yankum ropes sell. Not cheap, but quick ways to change the angle of pull, and if needed multiply your pulling power. There are some nice forestry capstan winches that are specifically designed to be anchored to tree trunks, and are, I think, really useful for pulling over trees, and use in trees.

Offset Winch Snatch Ring

Order Quantity 1 = 1 Ring For use with synthetic HMPE winch line ONLY WARNING: When performing a winch recovery, start with a single line pull (1:1), and work up to other configurations, ie 2:1 ---> 3:1, etc. The risk of overloading your tow/connection points increases with each additional...

yankum.com

I think that UHMWPE have really transformed winching; I just wouldn't let them be abraded by ground contact. They are so much safer than wire rope or chains.

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

My L2501 tires are filled with beet juice. My guess is the beet juice will prevent slime from sealing punctures.

 

[ponytug]

My L2501 tires are filled with beet juice. My guess is the beet juice will prevent slime from sealing punctures.

Yes, you are right, slime is not going to work with beet juice. Never mind...

I look forward to pictures when you get the project going.

All the best,

Peter

 

[woodlandfarms]

My tire loss is not from punctures but more from rim / side wall intrusion fin limbs and shirt small stumps.

 

[ponytug]

I hate those shirty little stumps. Just plain uppity and evil. Who needs stumps with attitude?

Thanks for the morning smile...

 

[2manyrocks]

Having dealt with thorns, I would encourage you to preemptively slime your tires before you start.

The great thing about capstan winches is that you can get long rope(s), and use snatch blocks. Have a look at some of the rope rollers and snatch blocks that Yankum ropes sell. Not cheap, but quick ways to change the angle of pull, and if needed multiply your pulling power. There are some nice forestry capstan winches that are specifically designed to be anchored to tree trunks, and are, I think, really useful for pulling over trees, and use in trees.

Offset Winch Snatch Ring

Order Quantity 1 = 1 Ring For use with synthetic HMPE winch line ONLY WARNING: When performing a winch recovery, start with a single line pull (1:1), and work up to other configurations, ie 2:1 ---> 3:1, etc. The risk of overloading your tow/connection points increases with each additional...

yankum.com

I think that UHMWPE have really transformed winching; I just wouldn't let them be abraded by ground contact. They are so much safer than wire rope or chains.

All the best,

Peter

I have to thank you for this because I had no idea these even existed.

The PCW4000 portable gas winch has a clutch, line lock, and throttle control assembly that differs from other capstan winches such that the capstan doesn't move until the operator applies tension to the line. IMO, that's a significant safety upgrade. PCW4000 Gas-Powered Winch

Having become more comfortable with this particular capstan winch, I think it may solve my other problems of access, thorns and hillside working conditions that I would face trying to use a tractor or PT in this area. I was able to find a used pcw4000 at a decent price.

What I need is to learn how to most effectively rig it. What I am wondering is whether I should be using traditional metal snatch blocks and double braided polyester line or if I should be looking more at the Yankum rollers matched with synthetic rope?

I plan to fabricate my own tree mount and a log nose cone from a section of plastic 55 gallon drum rolled into a cone shape.

 

[ponytug]

I have to thank you for this because I had no idea these even existed.

The PCW4000 portable gas winch has a clutch, line lock, and throttle control assembly that differs from other capstan winches such that the capstan doesn't move until the operator applies tension to the line. IMO, that's a significant safety upgrade. PCW4000 Gas-Powered Winch

Having become more comfortable with this particular capstan winch, I think it may solve my other problems of access, thorns and hillside working conditions that I would face trying to use a tractor or PT in this area. I was able to find a used pcw4000 at a decent price.

What I need is to learn how to most effectively rig it. What I am wondering is whether I should be using traditional metal snatch blocks and double braided polyester line or if I should be looking more at the Yankum rollers matched with synthetic rope?

I plan to fabricate my own tree mount and a log nose cone from a section of plastic 55 gallon drum rolled into a cone shape.

Yes, I like that winch, though I don't own it. Congratulations on finding a reasonably priced used one! I think August Hinicke uses one a fair amount, https://www.youtube.com/@AugustHunicke I think that they are pretty clever in terms of how they rig trees to pull over, and to trim, as is Eastside Tree Works. https://www.youtube.com/@guiltyoftreesoneastsidetre4792

I think that the pcw4000winch mount system is really nice because the winch is fixed to the tree and won't move on you if the angle of the pull changes for some reason. A series of sufficient strong straps would also work.

While I believe that UHMWPE rope is a big upgrade on polyester, it does cost a lot more. If you think that you will abrade the rope(s) doing what you want, I would go with the polyester and expect to replace it. The strength/diameter does differ and that might put you into different snatch block sizes. The only thing that I would NOT do is swap snatch blocks between wire rope and synthetic ropes. Wire rope tends to emboss texture onto snatch block pulleys that then abrades synthetic ropes.

I personally think that the Yankum snatch blocks are just plain ingenious and appropriate for synthetic lines. However, at the end of the day, it is just a snatch block and an integrated shackle (though you may need more shackles in some configurations).

All the best,

Peter

 

[ericm979]

I have to thank you for this because I had no idea these even existed.

The PCW4000 portable gas winch has a clutch, line lock, and throttle control assembly that differs from other capstan winches such that the capstan doesn't move until the operator applies tension to the line. IMO, that's a significant safety upgrade. PCW4000 Gas-Powered Winch

Having become more comfortable with this particular capstan winch, I think it may solve my other problems of access, thorns and hillside working conditions that I would face trying to use a tractor or PT in this area. I was able to find a used pcw4000 at a decent price.

What I need is to learn how to most effectively rig it. What I am wondering is whether I should be using traditional metal snatch blocks and double braided polyester line or if I should be looking more at the Yankum rollers matched with synthetic rope?

I plan to fabricate my own tree mount and a log nose cone from a section of plastic 55 gallon drum rolled into a cone shape.

With the 7700lb forestry winch on my tractor I use a self-releasing snatch block:

Igland Self-Releasing Snatch Block

On back order until mid April. Maximum load: 6 tons. For use with wire cable up to 1/2” diameter. Made by Igland of Norway.

stewardshipsuppliers.com

and a nylon lifting strap to attach it to trees.

When the load gets to the block it trips the lever and releases the cable. It's great for redirects from trees that are a clear shot to the tractor, you just keep pulling and the log arrives at the tractor.

I don't know for sure that the rope will work but it seems like it would. I think ball bearing pulleys would be a lot better than pulley-less things, even if they're low friction for what they are.

I found that even with a 3" wide strap its important to keep the strap from moving around on the tree under load or it will wear the bark. The block also works with choker chains but I would not use that except on a tree I was going to take down soon.

 

[2manyrocks]

I read elsewhere today that synthetic rope will not work on a capstan which requires a certain amount of friction with the rope to operate and the snatch rings appear to be designed for synthetic rope as Peter said.

The advantages of synthetic rope, soft rope shackles and snatch rings appear to be less metal to come flying back if something breaks loose as well as lighter weight.

The PCW4000 is only a 2,200 lb winch so my assumption would be that the less friction, the better, meaning ball bearing pulleys may be the appropriate choice for use with it and to use 10-12mm double braided polyester rope with it as recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[agjones]

My tire loss is not from punctures but more from rim / side wall intrusion fin limbs and shirt small stumps.

I had similar issues with my 1850 until filling with gemplers ultra seal. No more issues.

 

[SpringHollow]

Look at the portablewinch web site - they carry the appropriate rope, pulleys etc. When I bought mine, their prices were reasonable. It is extremely important that you use low stretch rope.

 

[2manyrocks]

I ordered one new item from portable winch of that may be of interest. They have a product called the RopewizerTM that takes the place of a splice at the rope end so that no rope strength is lost. RopeWizerTM - The Easy Splice

It's shocking how much pulleys cost.

 

[MossRoad]

I've always been a fan of the figure 8 knot, as it retains most of the rope's strength without added hardware.

 

[2manyrocks]

How do you carry your chainsaw, gas, chains, and other tree work tools when using a Power Trac?

 

[ponytug]

It depends on what I'm doing...For tree work only, it all goes in the front bucket, often with a generator gas, and fire extinguisher to run electric chainsaws and pole saws. If I am chipping, some goes in a feed bucket over one FEL arm, and the rest goes in the chipper bucket. I have never needed a tool box, but everyone has slightly, or not so slightly, different use cases.

All the best,

Peter