58 MPG by 2032

[WinterDeere]

The UAW demand was actually 20% immediately, and 5% after that for next 4 years. For a 46% total raise in the contract. Oh and working 32 hours instead of 40 to earn this raise. I sympathize with some of the newer, low tier workers making under $20/hr for hard work on the line. But there are other folks sweeping floors for $40/hr who would still get this 46% raise to work 4 days instead of 5? No, that's not happening. And if it does, it will bankrupt the OEMs.

The two sides are too far apart still. And suppliers like my employer are going to start imposing furloughs at our affected manufacturing plants soon if they don't make some headway on negotiations.

Agreed, on all points. I wasn't defending them, I was just correcting the math and the narrative, even if the source I used provided slightly different numbers.

 

[Grumpycat]

The VW diesel rabbits got in the low 50's in the 80's
Our 75 Chrysler with a 440 cu in engine only got 20 on
the hwyway. My 73 3/4 Dodge only got 18 mpg my 77
1/2 Dodge 318 auto 24 mpg with mods.Wifes duster
low 20's. All the other vehicles that we had never got
over 24 mpg. Our 2018 Chrysler will only get 24 mpg
going 55 or 75 no difference going to town. I have checked
many times and it still says 24! Wanted a Jetta diesel but
no such luck! Only gas and the ones testing them getting
42 - 44 mpg smaller than what I have but its just me now.
It cost over $1500 for all the polution crap probably more
now just so you can burn more gas to cut down on poluction?

willy
0

My lifetime average on 2018 F-150 with 2.7L twin turbo 325HP unmodified 4x4 is 22 MPG. It beats the pants off the 2008 F-250 4x4 Powerstroke diesel (350HP 14 MPG), and 2001 GMC Sonoma 2.2L 5speed (120HP 22 MPG) I previously owned.

1971 Dodge Charger with 318 struggled to get 14 MPG.

 

[deezler]

My lifetime average on 2018 F-150 with 2.7L twin turbo 325HP unmodified 4x4 is 22 MPG.

I wanted crew-cab long bed (6.5') so can only get the 5.0L V8 or 3.5L EcoBoost. Went ecoboost and no regrets so far. I've gotta full tanks of 20 mpg, but seen 22-23 mpg in casual cruising. The 2.7L is now the base engine for 2024 F150s and has a pretty stellar track record. High power, high mpg.

 

[WinterDeere]

I wanted crew-cab long bed (6.5') so...

I'm not even that old, but when I bought my first pickup truck, a "long bed" meant something longer than the standard 8 foot bed, and a "short bed" was 6.5 feet.

 

[Grumpycat]

I wanted crew-cab long bed (6.5') so can only get the 5.0L V8 or 3.5L EcoBoost. Went ecoboost and no regrets so far. I've gotta full tanks of 20 mpg, but seen 22-23 mpg in casual cruising. The 2.7L is now the base engine for 2024 F150s and has a pretty stellar track record. High power, high mpg.

6.5' "long bed".

I have SCAB with 6.5' bed and wish it was long enough for the dirtbike with the tailgate closed. The GMC Sonoma had a "7' bed" which was 88" and exactly long enough for dirtbikes.

 

[Rockbadchild]

6.5' "long bed".

I have SCAB with 6.5' bed and wish it was long enough for the dirtbike with the tailgate closed. The GMC Sonoma had a "7' bed" which was 88" and exactly long enough for dirtbikes.

Problem solve

 

[Hay Dude]

My lifetime average on 2018 F-150 with 2.7L twin turbo 325HP unmodified 4x4 is 22 MPG. It beats the pants off the 2008 F-250 4x4 Powerstroke diesel (350HP 14 MPG), and 2001 GMC Sonoma 2.2L 5speed (120HP 22 MPG) I previously owned.

1971 Dodge Charger with 318 struggled to get 14 MPG.

I guess that’s true if you don’t tow anything. Hook up a 15K trailer. Then the F-250 Powerstroke beats the pants off the F-150.

It’s like comparing a trotting horse to a Percheron.

Why do all the grocery getter guys driving the new high HP F-150’s always compare them to 20 year old F-250 Diesels?

 

[WinterDeere]

... and why do people without even a hint of a scratch in their tow hitch receiver socket buy diesel F250's, and even on occasion dually's?

There's a local guy who drives a jacked up HD dually pickup with mud tires, about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Anyone who's driven an unloaded truck with dual rears knows they're about the worst thing on earth in mud or snow, they just float. Of course, that one is so pristine clean that you know it's never even seen mud.

 

[lman]

... and why do people without even a hint of a scratch in their tow hitch receiver socket buy diesel F250's, and even on occasion dually's?

There's a local guy who drives a jacked up HD dually pickup with mud tires, about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Anyone who's driven an unloaded truck with dual rears knows they're about the worst thing on earth in mud or snow, they just float. Of course, that one is so pristine clean that you know it's never even seen mud.

They need it to get their groceries.

 

[deezler]

Why do all the grocery getter guys driving the new high HP F-150’s always compare them to 20 year old F-250 Diesels?

Because they are around the same price? Lol.

My grocery pickup tows 11,000 with 1840 lbs payload and gets above 20 mpg daily. Only a tiny portion of folks tow loads like yours.

 

[deezler]

I guess that’s true if you don’t tow anything. Hook up a 15K trailer. Then the F-250 Powerstroke beats the pants off the F-150.

Just for fun let's do a thought experiment here and stay within the rated towing specs just to be somewhat reasonable. Say, a 12,000 lb trailer behind both trucks: A 400 HP F150 (new 3.5L EcoBoost w/ 10-spd) and the 2008 F250. The F150 is going to win in a drag race, without a doubt.

Fuel economy, powertrain longevity, and comfort while towing is all another story, haha. Guess it depends what you mean by "beats the pants off"

 

[Grumpycat]

I guess that’s true if you don’t tow anything. Hook up a 15K trailer. Then the F-250 Powerstroke beats the pants off the F-150.

It’s like comparing a trotting horse to a Percheron.

Why do all the grocery getter guys driving the new high HP F-150’s always compare them to 20 year old F-250 Diesels?

"But but but, diesels are the miracle perfect solution to all problems and everybody gets 20 MPG towing 10k." Or that is what the proponents say.

2008 was not 20 years ago last time I checked. Huge changes in diesels from 2003 to 2008.

My truck was not rated for 15,000 pounds. Based on how it did with 6,000 (8 MPG) I'd guess 5-6 MPG.

Of interest, replaced the F-250 with a Mercedes diesel. Got just about exactly the same MPG from a 3.0L towing as the 6.4L but running empty it could get 24-29 MPG.

Back to the F-150, 22 MPG lifetime includes towing light, an open motorcycle trailer. Motorcycles in the bed don't seem to affect MPG. The Fool Computer has claimed over 29 MPG for 300+ miles a few times. At current prices 22 MPG of $3.359 gasoline would have to get 26.8 MPG of 4.099 ULSD. Diesel isn't worth the effort.

 

[Grumpycat]

... and why do people without even a hint of a scratch in their tow hitch receiver socket buy diesel F250's, and even on occasion dually's?

There's a local guy who drives a jacked up HD dually pickup with mud tires, about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Anyone who's driven an unloaded truck with dual rears knows they're about the worst thing on earth in mud or snow, they just float. Of course, that one is so pristine clean that you know it's never even seen mud.

Posers.

 

[Grumpycat]

Just for fun let's do a thought experiment here and stay within the rated towing specs just to be somewhat reasonable. Say, a 12,000 lb trailer behind both trucks: A 400 HP F150 (new 3.5L EcoBoost w/ 10-spd) and the 2008 F250. The F150 is going to win in a drag race, without a doubt.

Fuel economy, powertrain longevity, and comfort while towing is all another story, haha. Guess it depends what you mean by "beats the pants off"

You are making the wrong comparison to spin things.

The correct comparison is the F-250 with Powerstroke vs Godzilla.

I bought both F-250 and F-150 from a large Ford truck dealer. The road behind is on a rise so one can see over the fences. Is not unusual to see 10-15 SuperDutys in service bays with cab off. That is either some pretty serious service, or that access to critical parts is that difficult. Based on the one I had, I'd say access is that difficult. Transmission replacement was said to be a cab-off job.

 

[ultrarunner]

... and why do people without even a hint of a scratch in their tow hitch receiver socket buy diesel F250's, and even on occasion dually's?

There's a local guy who drives a jacked up HD dually pickup with mud tires, about the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Anyone who's driven an unloaded truck with dual rears knows they're about the worst thing on earth in mud or snow, they just float. Of course, that one is so pristine clean that you know it's never even seen mud.

True about that float… twice I assisted with my stock Model A Ford pickup…

Once was pulling out a Truck with monster tires that couldn’t get traction and the othe was a hot rod that ran out of gas on the SF San Mateo Bridge… would have loved to have a video of that one as the cars passed seeing a stock 1930 car pulling a highly modified 30 coupe with a 350 engine

 

[WinterDeere]

True about that float… twice I assisted with my stock Model A Ford pickup…

This made me smile. God bless you, ultrarunner. I’ve always been enamored with old folks, I hope you pass these stories down to your kids and grandkids. Heck, Model A… great-grandkids? I still remember some of the pre-automotive stories from my great-grandparents, and stories from my grandfather of his first job pulling a horse-drawn milk wagon as a teen. Great stuff.

On diesels versus gassers and mileage, it’s really not that challenging to work out the up-front cost of a diesel against the fuel cost savings for those who tow a lot of miles. If you’re using your truck as a daily commuter and only towing to the boat ramp or ag show on weekends, you’re going to have more trouble recouping that upfront investment in fuel savings, than someone pulling trailers 5 days per week. Gassers might get good mileage unladen, but take a big hit under load, whereas the diesel fuel efficiency has less dependency on load.

 

[deezler]

You are making the wrong comparison to spin things.

The correct comparison is the F-250 with Powerstroke vs Godzilla.

I bought both F-250 and F-150 from a large Ford truck dealer. The road behind is on a rise so one can see over the fences. Is not unusual to see 10-15 SuperDutys in service bays with cab off. That is either some pretty serious service, or that access to critical parts is that difficult. Based on the one I had, I'd say access is that difficult. Transmission replacement was said to be a cab-off job.

Huh? Why did I make the wrong comparison. I was directly responding to hay dude who claims that a 2008 powerstroke is going to "beat the pants off" a new high horsepower F150. To which I am quite certain he is wrong, at least in a drag race. as long as you stay within the rated capability of the F150 at least.

I moved from an '03 2500HD (6.0L gas w/ 4L80) to my '19 3.5L Ecoboost 10-spd and the difference is incredible. I can accelerate my family, a half ton of cargo, and 3 tons of camper trailer behind us like it isn't even there. Except for some extra noise and vibration!

If you are comparing a brand NEW diesel to anything, well they win, no doubt. The scorpion Powerstroke, Duramax, and Cummins B are all truly crazy beasts now.

And yeah it's definitely faster to pull the cab off if you need to do turbos, injector replacement, etc. Guys with experience can get the whole cab pulled in a couple hours, I've heard.

 

[Hay Dude]

Just for fun let's do a thought experiment here and stay within the rated towing specs just to be somewhat reasonable. Say, a 12,000 lb trailer behind both trucks: A 400 HP F150 (new 3.5L EcoBoost w/ 10-spd) and the 2008 F250. The F150 is going to win in a drag race, without a doubt.

Fuel economy, powertrain longevity, and comfort while towing is all another story, haha. Guess it depends what you mean by "beats the pants off"

I’d have a doubt. A 2008 F-250 had a 6.4L 360HP twin turbo diesel with 650 ft lbs of torque. Depending on the route of the race, I’d say it there’d be considerable doubt. Especially if there’s a hill.

I guess I’d take the fuel economy, powertrain longevity and comfort while towing versus winning a drag race with the 150, which would put a lot of stress and premature wear on it.

It would be pretty moronic to take an F-150 gasser to tow heavy with like 12,000lbs day in and day out, or buy a truck based on one “drag race”.

BTW: I said a 15K trailer.

 

[Hay Dude]

Because they are around the same price? Lol.

My grocery pickup tows 11,000 with 1840 lbs payload and gets above 20 mpg daily. Only a tiny portion of folks tow loads like yours.

Same price?
I’m thinking a 2008 F-250 diesel sells for about 25-35K now.

Depends on the circles you hang out in. Of almost all the guys I know, most tow way more than me. Maybe your a big timer among your buddies at 11,000lbs

 

[Williy]

My cousin had a model A Ford and we got snowed in at their farm
for 3 days and we had to get some food so 4 of us guys got in the
ole model A with shovels and went cross country with a lot of shoveling
we hit the hwyway and made our way back. We would of never made it
in any pickup or car. I get a kick out of these youngsters with there lift
kits on their pickups getting stuck in the mud, they haven't figured out
the the kits lift the truck body but not the axles

willy