Really, really dumb question about difference between off road and on road diesel fuel.

[ning]

https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html

Around here taxed diesel costs about $5.15-5.19 everywhere today (source: gasbuddy).

Mini mart nearby (9 miles away) also sells dyed diesel $0.50 less (I guess they pocket the $0.10 difference in the tax for the bother), so that's $4.69.

Closest Costco sells diesel $4.87.

I have five 5-gallon cans that I fill with dyed diesel occasionally; my truck fill up is typically about 30 gallons. Considering it costs me about $25 in diesel to round-trip to the Costco, it's not worth it to go there to fill the truck (it's also a 45 minute drive). I could send my wife off to work with my tractor cans as she fills up with Gas weekly there, but the last thing she needs to be doing is slinging 50-pound cans of fuel into her car (they seal pretty well so they pretty much don't smell, but that's another matter).

I have a spreadsheet that I can find the break-even point for "is it worth going to Costco" (to fill the truck and cans together vs just the truck at costco and the cans at the mini mart vs fill everything at the mini mart) and only when the Costco first opened and the fuel prices were about a dollar cheaper was it actually a win to go there; the only time I'll buy diesel there is if I happen to drive my truck down there for another reason (like, Home Depot).

 

[LouNY]

Isn't that the truth. Up here in the great state of Montana, when I city cop or state trooper pulls you over for speeding and you tell them that you have a revolver on your hip, a machine gun and shotgun behind the seat, and thousand of rounds of ammo on board they pet your dog, ask you what you do for living, tell you that they also have a Ruger or whatever, as well as an AR15, then tell you to slow down a bit and have a great day.

I've pulled trailers all over Montana and Wyoming, many thousands of miles, and have never been stopped, never been told to get on a scale, never had a load inspected, and never had my fuel checked. Heck, I drove this M1078 back from Seattle with no plates, no registration, no insurance, and red diesel in the 60 gallon tank all while pulling my Jeep behind on a custom tow bar. I passed many cops and was passed by many cops and none of them had the slightest bit of interest in me.

All of this fear-mongering is laughable.

View attachment 856048

Try that in my area you'll have so many tickets and fines it would make hiring a low boy to haul it look cheap.

 

[DarkBlack]

Just an FYI: off road diesel , and ( home heating oil) are not federally taxed (IRS).
On road clear has federal taxes added in and are in the jurisdiction of the IRS.

Individual states may or may not, piggyback on their own additional taxes on clear diesel

 

[Torvy]

Reimbursement would be easier for me. 100% of our diesel use is off-road farm use. That paperwork would be easier than the pre-qualification I have to do to buy off-road around here.

As for stops, different states have different rules and apply them to different offenses. For example, some states you can get pulled over if the cop doesn't see your seat belt. Other states, you can only get ticketed if you get pulled over for something else. It is usually written into the legislation. Primary vs secondary enforcement. The excuse for otherwise violations of the Constitution boils down to driving on roads being a privilege, not a right.

Dipping tanks still seems like a violation. They cannot search your car on the same road without probable cause. Most likely the searches are illegal, but the only ones who fight them are likely guilty. Judges don't like to let someone off who was clearly violating the law. Appeals are expensive. The only way to stop the random tank dipping in the US is for someone with the time and money, who gets illegally searched and has no violation, to sue for 4th Amendment violation.

 

[mcmxi]

Try that in my area you'll have so many tickets and fines it would make hiring a low boy to haul it look cheap.

I drove all the way across WA state and then Idaho without any issues, other than clogged fuel filters which resulted in 20mph top speed on big hills on I90. Still not interesting enough for any cop to pull me over.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I drove all the way across WA state and then Idaho without any issues, other than clogged fuel filters which resulted in 20mph top speed on big hills on I90. Still not interesting enough for any cop to pull me over.

I envy you. I wish it were the same way where I live. Around here, I can't tow my 10K dump trailer anywhere without getting pulled over for a "D.O.T." check.

I'm sure the degree of enforcement varies by location. There is a trash transfer station on the main highway near me which generates a lot of truck & trailer traffic. That's the reason for the high level of enforcement in my area.

 

[DarkBlack]

I can't tow my 10K dump trailer anywhere without getting pulled over for a "D.O.T." check.

.

Surely you’re exaggerating?
If not… you plan every trailer trip to include time being pulled over by DOT?

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html

Not worth driving a hour for diesel.

I use the mudflap app on diesel anyways so I do save money on it.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Surely you’re exaggerating?
If not… you plan every trailer trip to include time being pulled over by DOT?

Only slightly.

From my upper field, I can see the place on the highway where the State Police and DOT pull vehicles over. It is active at odd hours and on odd days but I learned the hard way to look first before heading out with the trailer.

 

[Alan W.]

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[CliffordK]

My guess is those with obvious construction or farm vehicles are much more likely to get red dye tested than on road semi trucks.
I've never seen it done

 

[SwingOak]

I have a 100 gallon aux/transfer tank and no, I don't make special trips to Costco just for fuel, but if I'm in the area (and need fuel), I stop there and fill up. Off road diesel today $3.29, Costco is $3.54, other stations nearby between $3.79-$3.99.

 

[Long Valley]

A couple of you guys mentioned using your home heating oil in your tractors. Just as everything else, a couple people told me it's the same stuff with dye; a couple people told me it's very different.
I do it to save some money, but especially for convienience. I put a pump on top of my home heating tank, and it saves a lot of lifting and filling jugs.
Is it the same fuel or not?

I believe (in Ontario) the furnace fuel has kerosene added to it for winter burning to avoid gelling?

The dyed diesel near me is 30-40 cents per gallon cheaper, so its not a great savings.

 

[Long Valley]

Interesting! Here in Canada we have farm diesel it is dyed kinda purple. Really same diesel except for the dye and less tax! We can use it in our trucks on road (registered as farm trucks).

In Ontario that is not allowed, even if registered as a farm truck. Any vehicle with a license plate is not allowed to run dyed diesel. Best to check your provincial regs.

Coloured fuel | Fuel Tax

Learn about fuel tax rules in Ontario. The types of fuel and who needs to register, report and pay fuel tax.This online book has multiple pages. Please click on the Table of Contents link above for additional information related to this topic.Gasoline Tax International Fuel Tax Agreement

www.ontario.ca

 

[Richard]

Usually they will just check your exhaust pipe for the red dye
and the fee for red dye in the exhaust pipe was told $10,000

20 years ago when I was (only slightly) dumber than I am now...

The farm here was timbered. The guys doing the timbering were (in my mind) major jerks. They destroyed a lot of things supposed to be left behind as they drove their logging machinery around (far was selectively timbered). Still....I get that. Big machines, trees dragging behind them.

They would leave their trash all over the place. Lunch bags? tossed aside. Empty oil jugs (for chainsaws) lobbed into the woods. They evidently had to replace two of the huge tires on their big machine that would drag the trees from cut site to where their huge delimbing/cutting to length machine was.

As they were near finished, I started going out to start to clean things up, create burn piles... came across one of their HUGE slash piles. This thing was probably 100' long, 20' wide and looked to be 30' high but was probably 10' high. I noticed within the burn pile, covered up with a lot of slash, those two huge skidder tires.

After all the other trash I picked up behind them, I finally told them these were in a pile to be burned and need to be gone. His comment back was "nah, just burn them"

Well, I was not going to have the burnt carcas of them laying about for more decades PLUS, turns out it's illegal to burn tires like that.... he was ignoring me. I called Sheriff (or someone) and was told, I had to file a complaint on the land owner (my father in law) to initiate it and it would work down from there.....so I did it.

Mysteriously, a week or three later, the tires were gone.

I was still fuming at what these dolts tried to get away with (they also obsconded off with some very large rocks that were quarried off the farm,. laying there (that I was going to use).

Anyway....back to topic.... it was all I could do to keep from taking 5-gallons of off road diesel and dump it into his/their trucks..... then call the authorities with my "suspicion" that they were using off road in their vehicles. Didn't do it of course, but I was tempted. They would have earned the problems that might have brought them but, I'm generally, a decent person so didn't do it, in spite of all the crap they brought to their visit.

 

[GeneSimm7]

The only difference is the dye and price (due to extra taxes). I use highway diesel in my tractor all the time even though I could use off-road and save money, but I use the highway type in case of an emergency and I have to "borrow" some tractor fuel for my truck. I don't want to get caught with dyed fuel in my truck. Could be very expensive!

 

[Charliedeere]

Now I will admit, I don't know a darn thing about diesel fuels. Never touched a diesel motor, much less owned one before I bought my tractor several months ago. A friend of mine told me to use the off road diesel, since it is significantly cheaper, and basically the same as the on road stuff you would buy for passenger vehicles except for the colored dye to mark the off road stuff.

Then the other day another friend tells me that I shouldn't be using the off road diesel in my tractor, because there are significant deficiencies in the off road stuff, particularly lubrication of engine parts, that are detrimental to the engine.

So, who is correct?

And I sure do hope that there isn't going to be 50 percent saying one, and the other 50 percent saying the other is correct. :/

Where I live I can buy on road diesel cheaper than off road, as long as I buy it at certain retailers. The price of diesel varies widely depending on the retailer . Most truck stops it’s nearly $4 a gallon other service stations about $3.75, however I can buy at sams club for $3.40 to 3.60 per gallon. The last time I checked off road fuel it was around $4.00 per gallon.

 

[ruffdog]

Does cheap fuel price equate cheap fuel quality?

 

[boatmoter]

Now I will admit, I don't know a darn thing about diesel fuels. Never touched a diesel motor, much less owned one before I bought my tractor several months ago. A friend of mine told me to use the off road diesel, since it is significantly cheaper, and basically the same as the on road stuff you would buy for passenger vehicles except for the colored dye to mark the off road stuff.

Then the other day another friend tells me that I shouldn't be using the off road diesel in my tractor, because there are significant deficiencies in the off road stuff, particularly lubrication of engine parts, that are detrimental to the engine.

So, who is correct?

And I sure do hope that there isn't going to be 50 percent saying one, and the other 50 percent saying the other is correct. :/

only difference is off road has a dye in it. you do not want to get caught with the off road in your tagged on road vehicle,it can cost a lot of money and trouble. the off road does not have a road state tax on it so it's cheaper

 

[Up to the Axles]

A couple of you guys mentioned using your home heating oil in your tractors. Just as everything else, a couple people told me it's the same stuff with dye; a couple people told me it's very different.

Is it the same fuel or not?

I've been out of the pipeline business for many decade, so this data is pre-low sulfur, BUT:

We had tankage, as in 3-4 million gallons, for Kerosene, Diesel, and #2 Heating oil. (And of course, gasolines...) The #2 was a lower Cetane rating than Diesel, and did not have the lubricity of Diesel. The latter was important for high pressure injection pumps, i.e. engines vs. furnaces.

We also had Jet-A. Jet-A is just Kerosene held to the highest specs. When we got a tender of it, it went into a holding tank until the lab had tested a sample. There were about 12 separate tests run. If it flunked, it was transferred to the Kero tank. if it passed, it was pumped to the airports.

Interestingly, Conrail bought lots of Kero; they used it in their diesels. Further, the airlines used Jet-A in their refueling tankers {that pull up to the aircraft} and "ramp lice" - the dozens of aircraft tugs, huffers, baggage conveyors and tows, etc. They had a tax exemption and decided the higher price was offset by the costs of keeping 2 fuels on the field. It also made it impossible for anyone to load the wrong fuel into an aircraft. I assume both groups had done the math and decided this made sense to their bottom lines.

Oh, BTW nothing was dyed there. We sent it to a marketing terminal where they loaded the trucks; the dye was injected there.

So I'd assume that Heating oil still ain't Diesel.