Auto vs shift

[arrow]

Having the opportunity to operate shuttles and hydro extensively, I am sometimes at a loss to understand the aversion to the geared tractor. A shuttle makes it so easy for back and forth, that it becomes a non thinking entity. The advantages of geared is power availability. There’s just more of it especially in the lower hp models of tractors. The disadvantage is there is one more step with the arm as opposed to the toe. Most shuttles, unless a power shift, require a clutch step. Unless one has a left knee or hip problem, this also becomes a rather innocuous gesture. Controlling or feathering some say is better had with the hydro. The truth of the matter is one can get very feathery with a geared tractor as well. Another advantage of the hydro is the safety factor. Once you take your foot off the pedal, the tractor comes to a stop….not like a braking but the tractor ceases to go forward under power.
I guess the part I find peculiar is the “aversion” some profess to operating a geared tractor synonymous to driving a stick shift car. Totally different world but made to seem such as a parallel somehow.
So selling, advising and working on tractors for over a dozen years, there are many instances of me steering a person toward a hydro. One of the biggest reasons being multiple operators and physical disabilities.
The convenience factor including with loader work goes to the hydro of course but in my mind, this is a slim reason. It’s just so easy with the shuttle these days to basically do much the same.
What it seems to me is that we as a species move toward convenience no matter how much of an incremental alteration the convenience attainment is.

Although a skewered comparison, nonetheless the geared tractor no matter what it’s attributes, becomes the same albatross as the stick shift car.
Kinda sad to me is all.

 

[5030]

Transmission diversity all hinges on end use in my opinion.

 

[big bubba]

yes the shuttle is a big advantage with geared tractors. in addition, there's a big difference between shuttle shift, & hyd shuttle. the former requires clutch for directional change, hyd does not.

there's no question the hyd shuttle is superior & also involves a wet clutch pack vs the single dry plate of shuttle shift. apparently the wet pack outlasts the conventional dry plate.

 

[arrow]

Transmission diversity all hinges on end use in my opinion.

Granted
But I have customers paying no attention of end use. They were simply told to buy nothing but a hydro by friends and family.
“It’s just so much easier”.
Not “so much” in my mind.
So I have customers in little 23-25 hp tractors insisting on the hydro which I have found totally inconvenient with certain grunt type tasks.

 

[big bubba]

Granted
But I have customers paying no attention of end use. They were simply told to buy nothing but a hydro by friends and family.
“It’s just so much easier”.
Not “so much” in my mind.
So I have customers in little 23-25 hp tractors insisting on the hydro which I have found totally inconvenient with certain grunt type tasks.

in what way is hyd shuttle "not so much" easier?

 

[dodge man]

I started a thread a week ago saying I had run a gear drive for the first time. I had also heard hydro was the way to go. I had no problems running it at all and it wasn’t a shuttle. I was using it for discing and running a cultipacker so that is a gear drives forte but I did do some tight maneuvers and backing up to hook up implements.

 

[fidowanttobe]

My salesman in '07 asked me what I was going to use my new tractor for and suggested a standard clutch/manual shift vs the clutch type shuttle/manual. Hydro wasn't an option.
Love it.
Pick a speed/gear, set the throttle and sit back and steer. Also very handy to put in creeper gear, (for roto-tilling) hop off the tractor and let it drive by itself while you load or unload with a shovel.
I am not a fan of holding the forward force constantly, even on my ztr but there I realize the necessity.

 

[arrow]

in what way is hyd shuttle "not so much" easier?

Why indeed is it so much easier?
Synchronized shuttles are back and forth. clutch/Arm movement. Power or glide shift, just an arm movement...no clutch as if thats a concern.

This is what I mean. There is a preponderance of negativity toward a simple movement.
How does it relate to the grand scheme of things if the person is able bodied?
Do you also sell tractors? Do you have customers insisting on hydro with no experience but based on what they heard as opposed to what they need?
Perhaps being in that situation has made me overly aware enough to scratch my head.

 

[big bubba]

i've always gone gear, in my current tractor, hyd shuttle. my knees etc are still good, no replacements or pain issues. so having hyd shuttle is icing on the cake.

your overall message is a bit confusing, but now see we agree. always nice to have options, never had or ever will have hst, but like hyd shuttle, hst solves problems for those who don't care or are unable to operate gear. regards

 

[Runner]

The convenience factor including with loader work goes to the hydro of course but in my mind, this is a slim reason.

To me, it's not a slim reason. And this is coming from a person who loves driving manual transmission cars - there are MANY operations I do around my place where hydro is better, for example, loader work and rear blade work (where is is nice to have one hand on the wheel and the other available to operate the loader valve or the rockshaft lever).

Running a stump grinder - again, you need to have basically instant forward/backward control and need one hand on the wheel and one on the rockshaft lever.

Many times mowing requires being able to ease right up to an obstruction which is very easy with the hydro. Maneuvering in tight spaces, especially where you might need to use the brake while also edging ahead with the hydro pedal, such as trying to precisely move something with pallet forks.

If I was using a tractor for something like farming or mowing many acres at a time, or maybe just with the tractor sitting still using a chipper, splitter or some such thing, yes, I might choose a gear tractor. Is a shuttle shift better than a gear tractor for frequent direction changes? Absolutely, but still not as convenient as a hydro in my opinion, especially if you need both hands free for other stuff.

Don't be sad about people choosing hydros - at least with tractors, they won't quit making gear drive tractors just because people like to buy hydros. Wish I could say the same about manual shift cars/trucks.

 

[Fixastuff]

The only reason I see to go gear on a home use or hobby farm tractor is if the hydro whine drives you crazy.

If you think a gear tractor is putting down enough power difference in a 100hp or less tractor you tripping.

 

[Runner]

Do you also sell tractors? Do you have customers insisting on hydro with no experience but based on what they heard as opposed to what they need?
Perhaps being in that situation has made me overly aware enough to scratch my head.

But, why do you care what other people buy? As you say, they have their reasons. Are people complaining about the hydros or bringing them back to trade in on gear tractors? If not, they must be happy with them.

 

[Fixastuff]

The only reason I see to go gear on a home use or hobby farm tractor is if the hydro whine drives you crazy.

If you think a gear tractor is putting down enough power difference in a 100hp or less tractor you tripping.

Forgot to add, if geared makes you happy go for it but don’t act like it’s better than a hydro.

 

[ptsg]

The only reason I see to go gear on a home use or hobby farm tractor is if the hydro whine drives you crazy.

If you think a gear tractor is putting down enough power difference in a 100hp or less tractor you tripping.

I can pull a loaded trailer on the road with my geared 35hp tractor easily in the highest gear (High range, 4rd gear). Show me an hydro doing the same and tell me whether there is or there isn't any difference in putting power down.

Heck, those hydro tractors can barely pull their own weight in high range and you're trying to convince people that there isn't any difference in putting power down? Surely, even you can't believe that.

 

[1930]

I’ll never buy anything but geared
If I can’t fix it I don’t want it

 

[big bubba]

Forgot to add, if geared makes you happy go for it but don’t act like it’s better than a hydro.

in the case of a hydro shuttle vs shuttle shift on a geared tractor, the former is clearly superior. re: gear vs hst wars, it's meaningless to attribute a better or worse scenario,
this is a compact/sub forum, of course hst prevails among members

there is a very good reason why larger utility M series tractors are gear. the hyd shuttle gear is icing on the cake. to say one system is better than the other is naive & meaningless

 

[SmallChange]

Don't be sad about people choosing hydros - at least with tractors, they won't quit making gear drive tractors just because people like to buy hydros. Wish I could say the same about manual shift cars/trucks.

That's the thing. People choosing automatic car transmissions has caused some makers to quit making manuals. I like Subaru Foresters for several reasons, and I have a manual one, but they're no longer made. No surprise.

But exactly the same thing could happen with tractors.

 

[Fixastuff]

That's the thing. People choosing automatic car transmissions has caused some makers to quit making manuals. I like Subaru Foresters for several reasons, and I have a manual one, but they're no longer made. No surprise.

But exactly the same thing could happen with tractors.

On many new cars the automatic is faster and might even get better mpg. The fancy dual clutch ones even give you the rev matched downshifts.

 

[arrow]

Forgot to add, if geared makes you happy go for it but don’t act like it’s better than a hydro.

I can act any way I want.
Most certainly is better in many ways.
We don’t sell 100 hp tractors. if you think the average outdoor power equipment place sells them, then you’re trippin.

 

[Fixastuff]

I can act any way I want.
Most certainly is better in many ways.
We don’t sell 100 hp tractors. if you think the average outdoor power equipment place sells them, then you’re trippin.

Shift them gears! You got this.