1025R vs GC1720 vs BX25 vs emax 22

flienlow · Mar 8, 2015

murphy1244 said:
+2 on the Massey, If I was to buy a sub compact that would be it. Compare the hydraulics too. Massey is better.

Does anyone know how the backhoe is plumbed? Is it CAT OR JD (SAE ISO)?

Pierrepont · Mar 8, 2015

Olympus said:
He's either full of BS or he's selling another brand with better profit margins. I'm here to tell you for a fact that LS will be less expensive than any other brand and will be a larger machine with WAY better specs

I bought a brand new J2023 at the beginning of last year. I paid $12,200 for my machine, which included the front loader. Not even the smaller, lower spec SCUTs from JD, Kubota, and Massey were even with $1000 of that price. Tell you what, you call Magee Equipment in Poplar Bluff, MO and ask for Doug Jackson. Ask for a quote on a J2023 and you'll see for yourself. I'll even send you a photo of my receipt. I still have it in my owners manual.

LS is not a no-name, expensive brand. LS has been making the Boomer Series for New Holland for many years. Is New Holland a no-name brand? Well anyone owning a New Holland Boomer is actually owning a LS with different decals. I suggest doing a little more research before making such ignorant (used in the technical sense) comments. Or better yet, listen a little closer to those of us who own LS tractors since we have direct, firsthand experience.

I think the LS tractor line is experiencing understandable growing pains due to inconsistent dealer quality. In time I believe that the good dealers will survive and thrive and the more casual or underfunded dealers will not. I suppose this is a normal part of establishing a large, professional, well funded dealership network.

Olympus · Mar 8, 2015

And some dealers are just jerks. I have a large LS dealer just 5 miles from my house. When I was searching, I went to them first. They were uninterested in working with me because they said the 2023 was too small and they only dealt in the larger models. They were not interested in ordering one for me either. And this is a fairly large dealership. So I went elsewhere. Some dealers I'm found are just not very friendly, even with other brands.

Johnnymossville · Mar 8, 2015

I have a Massey GC1705 coming next week. I was considering the same machines you are, minus the backhoe, I didn't get a chance to look at an LS, looks great, but it seems a little large for my needs. I just kept going back to the Massey after looking at the others. I can't wait to get this machine! Good luck in your search.

flienlow · Mar 9, 2015

Its starting to look like the Massey is the same tractor as the john deere. I am sure quick disconnect features of the JD will not work for the Massey though.

Soo...

It seems like most of these tractors are made by two or three companies.

Daedong (or daewoo cant recall S. Korea names) for: - Kubota, Kioti

Mahindra- (think they make their own)

Yanmar - JD and Massey.

New Holland, LS ????????

MessickFarmEqu · Mar 9, 2015

flienlow said:
t seems like most of these tractors are made by two or three companies.

Daedong (or daewoo cant recall S. Korea names) for: - Kubota, Kioti?

Ugh.. NO NO NO NO NO.

Daedong and Kubota have nothing in common. The BX is made by KMA (Kubota manufacturing of America) in Gainsville GA. I've been there. Its a real manufacturing facility where they bend metal and build tractors.

TSO · Mar 9, 2015

flienlow said:
Its starting to look like the Massey is the same tractor as the john deere. I am sure quick disconnect features of the JD will not work for the Massey though.

Soo...

It seems like most of these tractors are made by two or three companies.

Daedong (or daewoo cant recall S. Korea names) for: - Kubota, Kioti

Mahindra- (think they make their own)

Yanmar - JD and Massey.

New Holland, LS ????????

NO. Not even close.

Regarding CUT's (Compact Utility Tractors, ranging from 20-60'ish HP)...

Kubota builds their own (Japan)
LS builds their own (S Korea)
Daedong (sold here as Kioti) makes their own (S Korea)
TYM makes their own (S Korea)
Kukje (sold here as Branson) makes their own (S Korea)
Yanmar makes their own (Japan)
JD, from the sounds of it, now makes their own (assembled in US)
Mahindra makes some of their own, buys some from Mitsubishi (Japan) and some from TYM (S Korea)
C-NH (Case & New Holland) co-builds some of their own with Shibaura (Japan) (the Boomer CVT series) but buys the rest from LS (S Korea)
Massey Ferguson has Iseki (Japan) build all of their CUT's, and some of their larger stuff too
McCormick previously bought from LS, then Daedong, but now buys from Kukje
Bobcat did buy from Daedong but no longer offers a tractor
Montana did buy from LS but no longer offers a tractor
FarmTrac CUT's were from LS

... I think that's the entirety of the US CUT market (not including any gray market or Chinese tractors)

Olympus · Mar 9, 2015

Edited - TSO hit everything.

flienlow · Mar 9, 2015

TSO said:
NO. Not even close.

Regarding CUT's (Compact Utility Tractors, ranging from 20-60'ish HP)...

Kubota builds their own (Japan)

LS builds their own (S Korea)

Daedong (sold here as Kioti) makes their own (S Korea)

TYM makes their own (S Korea)

Kukje (sold here as Branson) makes their own (S Korea)

Yanmar makes their own (Japan)

JD, from the sounds of it, now makes their own (assembled in US)

Mahindra makes some of their own, buys some from Mitsubishi (Japan) and some from TYM (S Korea)

C-NH (Case & New Holland) co-builds some of their own with Shibaura (Japan) (the Boomer CVT series) but buys the rest from LS (S Korea)

Massey Ferguson has Iseki (Japan) build all of their CUT's, and some of their larger stuff too

McCormick previously bought from LS, then Daedong, but now buys from Kukje

Bobcat did buy from Daedong but no longer offers a tractor

Montana did buy from LS but no longer offers a tractor

FarmTrac CUT's were from LS

... I think that's the entirety of the US CUT market (not including any gray market or Chinese tractors)

Just when I thought it was getting easier to select, you had to go and make it difficult for me again!

I was told by a Kioti dealer that "Daedong makes 20,000 extra tractors a year they don't sell." Meaning they are Kubotas.

Looking at just rear tractor fenders alone, there are clear similarities between a lot of them. How could they all possible look and be the same while being manufactured by multiple different companies? I know the big "American" names are about as American as Kimchi. In truth,I really don't care. I just want something that does what I need it to do for a decent price.

I could be misguided, but right now its looking like the GC1720 is in the lead. If the JD wasnt too expensive it would be in my driveway right now.

Johnnymossville · Mar 9, 2015

The JD and Massey were my two finalists, I just couldn't get the JD down to a price I could live with. I wanted my monthly payment for 5 years under $200. LOL

TSO · Mar 9, 2015

flienlow said:
Just when I thought it was getting easier to select, you had to go and make it difficult for me again!

I was told by a Kioti dealer that "Daedong makes 20,000 extra tractors a year they don't sell." Meaning they are Kubotas.

Looking at just rear tractor fenders alone, there are clear similarities between a lot of them. How could they all possible look and be the same while being manufactured by multiple different companies? I know the big "American" names are about as American as Kimchi. In truth,I really don't care. I just want something that does what I need it to do for a decent price.

I could be misguided, but right now its looking like the GC1720 is in the lead. If the JD wasnt too expensive it would be in my driveway right now.

Your dealer is making a misleading statement. Daedong and Kubota did have some early collaboration, but apparently no modern connections.

Naturally, a fender looks like a fender ... Not a whole lot of variation available there.

The list I posted is accurate.

Johnnymossville · Mar 9, 2015

implement compatibility makes similar class machines look similar. it's a good thing. that said, there are so many tiny little differences it all adds up. Great choices in every single class of tractor out there. Pretty amazing isn't it?

s219 · Mar 9, 2015

Well, there are similarities because some of the younger newer brands have clearly copied the basics from the established brands. In some cases, even colors. In general, the similarity ends there, and there are other differences that make the brands unique and easy to tell apart.

There are no current ties between Deere and Massey or Kioti and Kubota, not even remotely.

Some Deere compacts are still made by Yanmar and/or have Yanmar diesel engines, but don't look anything like Yanmar's own models.

flienlow · Mar 11, 2015

So in this day of video and reviews, where can I find real world reviews and comparisons from real owner? I am finding a little but not a lot. The one site that rates tractors rate the BX25 higher than the 1025r and GC1710, but I am finding most find the Kubota to be a pile.

TSO · Mar 11, 2015

flienlow said:
So in this day of video and reviews, where can I find real world reviews and comparisons from real owner? I am finding a little but not a lot. The one site that rates tractors rate the BX25 higher than the 1025r and GC1710, but I am finding most find the Kubota to be a pile.

I haven't heard any consensus saying the Kubota is a pile ...

Johnnymossville · Mar 11, 2015

Kubotas are definitely not a pile. I think most owners really like them, and they sell well for a reason. They are a good machine.

flienlow · Mar 11, 2015

Johnnymossville said:
Kubotas are definitely not a pile. I think most owners really like them, and they sell well for a reason. They are a good machine.

I can't sling a dead cat in the air without slapping a BX25. Same for the 1025R. Not a dime a Dozen for sure. but you could have pick of the litter around here if you want to sally up the cash. Just my luck, I want the GC1720 and there is NONE in a 4 state area from me.

nikerret · Mar 11, 2015

Here's a thread I started, about my observations of used models you are looking at.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...28518-2012-kubota-bx25-tlb-vs.html?highlight=

I am going with the Kubota BX25D-1. The pros and cons of the newer BX25D-1 and 1026R are the same as what I found on the used models. There is a dealer close (80 miles) that will sell me a new Kubota BX25D-1 with the 60 MMM, 12" bucket, and the 3 PT kit for $18,500, financed or $18,000 cash. They will also come to me, to fix on site or pick up the machine (and drop it back off), if I have a warranty issue.

I didn't get very far looking for the MF GC series. The local dealer has a GC1715, but they refuse to respond to inquiries on the price. They don't know what the price would be for the backhoe model (which is what I am interested in). I called around all the local MF dealers, in my area (up to 100-150 miles). I know why there aren't many MF's around here. Two dealers refused to give me a quote, because I wasn't local. A couple of others acted like I was a waste of their time. Some were okay and two were pretty good. None of them had the tractor I wanted to see, or much knowledge of the model. The price quotes I got were all high, compared to the Kubota and some were even higher than the JD quotes.

Poopdeck Pappy · Mar 11, 2015

The reason you are finding many more BX25's available than GC1710's is because Kubota sells a lot more of them than MF sells of the GC1710. There may be a reason for that. The sales volume alone would suggest that the BX25 is not a pile. If it was, you would be reading about all the problems here on TBN.

If you've read much here on the BX25, I suspect most of what you've read has been positive. I'm sure the BX25 isn't perfect (because no tractor is) but the overall experience of owners seems to be positive. I have its older brother, the BX23, and it has been great.

I'm sure the MF GC1710 is a great little tractor too. And if that's the one you really want, then I'm sure one will turn up sooner or later if you're patient. Life is short, and you should buy the one you really want.