15% ethanol!?!?

[Duffster]

Congressional Budget Office states that cutting carbon emissions by one metric ton via ethanol runs to $754.

To put that number in perspective, the budget gnomes estimate that the price for a ton of carbon under the cap-and-tax program that the House passed last summer would be about $26 in 2019.

CBO is also honest enough to mention that in reality $754 may be purchasing a net carbon emissions increase.

"Because the production of ethanol draws so much energy from coal and natural gas it can be thought of as a method for converting natural gas or coal to a liquid fuel that can be used for transportation." Meanwhile, the assumptions of their model also exclude indirect land-use changes toward energy-intensive crops that also boost overall CO2.

Given these realities, the only mystery is how the Ethanol Industry has managed to produce a wasteful biofuel that no one would willingly buy but has managed to be subsidized over four decades at costs that are higher than anyone ever imagined, since it could never make a profit.

Do you have any proof to back your statemants up?

"Subsidies" gets repeated over and over but do you or any one else have an idea what they really are?

 

[SkyPup]

That is simple, a subsidy is a form of financial assistance paid by the government (USA Taxpayers) to prevent the collapse of an industry (Biofuels) which continuously cannot make a profit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/business/12ethanol.html?_r=1


Ethanol is Truly a Growing Disaster for Greens and NonGreens Alike:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/28/opinion/28harding.html?scp=9&sq=&st=nyt

 

[Duffster]

That is simple, a subsidy is a form of financial assistance paid by the government (USA Taxpayers) to prevent the collapse of an industry (Biofuels) which continuously cannot make a profit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/12/business/12ethanol.html?_r=1

Good article. But it is about a company that got to big to fast that hit a extremely volatile energy market and a extremely volatile corn market nearly all at the same time. Doesn't really say anything about the profitability of making ethanol. They failed to mention the company that purchased the ethanol plant pictured, which isn't far from here, is as far as I know is making a profit.

Ethanol is Truly a Growing Disaster for Greens and NonGreens Alike:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/28/opinion/28harding.html?scp=9&sq=&st=nyt

You did notice this was on the "opinion" page"?

 

[gauthier]

Well,one way the government sponsers ethinal,,is it sponsers ethinal,,isn't it the government that makes it law that we use this stuff??,if that wasn't the case,you wouldn't see ethinal sold in most states.

 

[schmism]

I noticed MTBE mentioned a number of times.

NOTE that MTBE is no longer in use and outright band by law in 25 states.

In 2000, the EPA drafted plans to phase out the use of MTBE nationwide over four years.

 

[SkyPup]

They failed to mention the company that purchased the ethanol plant pictured, which isn't far from here, is as far as I know is making a profit.

You did notice this was on the "opinion" page"?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but we all know for a fact that without the federal government mandated entitlements and subsidies, none would be in business at all, except for Jack Daniels, Wild Turkey, Jim Beam, etc.......

 

[Duffster]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but we all know for a fact that without the federal government mandated entitlements and subsidies, none would be in business at all, except for Jack Daniels, Wild Turkey, Jim Beam, etc.......

IIRC Ethanol was used around here long before it was mandated which would make your claimed "fact" just opinion.

Was anyone crying about the MTBE companies being subsidized?

Mandated use is a far cry from a subsidy. I have to have auto insurance, does that mean the insurance companies are subsidized? I don't think so.

 

[SkyPup]

IIRC Ethanol was used around here long before it was mandated which would make your claimed "fact" just opinion.

I have to have auto insurance, does that mean the insurance companies are subsidized? I don't think so.

Ethanol causes the deaths of tens of thousands of drivers as well as the loss of tens of billions of dollars in medical and property damage each year, so I guess you could easily say that Ethanol subsidizes the insurance industry.....

 

[clemsonfor]

If that mossroad guy frequented this forum he would have shut yall down by now. Im into politics myself but its no fun when a serious debate turns to this and those who have somehow sequestered power lock it and delete posts. This was stated on how ethonol harms or gums up you stuff, people where posting experience and facts, hate to see that get stopped due to this talk on the ethics of ethonol, you can find proof on each side of the debate all day long.

 

[rjkobbeman]

My 2008 Mercury Sable has a very plain E85 with the red circle and sash right on the fuel tank cap. If we talked the truth about the ethanol mandates, this would be a political thread!:mur:

+1

My 2010 Ford Edge has the same E85 inside a red circle and a slash on the gas cap.

+1 on the political talk too. It comes to no surprise to me that the pro-corn-ethanol-bio-diesel-you-name-it group is always tied to the industry in one way or another.