1983 Ford 1700 - Clutch stopped working

jpilk99 · Sep 1, 2014

Ahhhh HAH! Murphy's Law has got me by the you know whats! I have a loader on my machine making it pretty much useless to try and look in through that hole. (Odd design, for the loader bracket to cover 60% of that rubber hand-hole cover). I will try and attach a picture or two. I can likely pry the heck out of that rubber cover, but, it's not going to give me much of a view. Will try and report back.

There's no way I want to take off the loader to be able to look inside, is there? I'm assuming the moment I fully disconnect the bolts - that loader is going to shift/move and then I'll have a whole new problem. I do have car jacks, but, I don't feel comfortable that they're big/tall enough to get up there and support the rear most section of the loader arms. And, with my luck, the minute I take out the final bolts, it loader would likely lurch a wee bit ...and then I'm really in Murphy's soup.

I'm wonder, if "it's just out of adjustment a little bit", that adjustment is in the clutch pedal linkage, isn't it? If so, there's really no free play in it now, but, I wonder if I 'tighten' even more - to give the clutch pedal even more ability to disengage the clutch... Is this a course worth pursuing? Just dreading the notion of getting this wonderful tractor dragged up onto a trailer, transported to a repair shop, repaired, and then returned. That feels like many hundreds of dollars :-(.

Error | Photobucket[user]=141298459&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

jpilk99 · Sep 1, 2014

http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/jpilk99/media/IMG_5809_zpsb5f1b078.jpg.html?filters[user]=141298459&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

JC-jetro · Sep 1, 2014

jpilk99 said:
http://s1373.photobucket.com/user/jpilk99/media/IMG_5809_zpsb5f1b078.jpg.html?filters[user]=141298459&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=0

I do have inspection camera with felxible 3/8" tube and a light source at the top for inspection with a video camera. HF does have them but they ain't very cheap. Do the following and report back.

1- raise the rear axle about 2" off of ground and safely lower it on two jack stands.
2- make sure wheels don't touch the ground. Choke both front wheel preferably on both sides. Obviously you want to do it on a flat ground without incline.
3- with engine "off ", put the gear in Neutral and try to turn the wheel by hand. Report.
4- put the gear in 4th after clutching. see if you can turn the wheel. report.

JC,

ps. The tighter you make the linkage the closer throw out bearing distance will be to pressure plate finger . The looser and you get the opposite effect. too lose and you can't disengage. too tight and transmission and engine will be disengaged all the time and can't transfer engine to transmission.

JC-jetro · Sep 1, 2014

yup. I agree. I'm pretty visual and can't explain without drawing and pictures.

JC,

jpilk99 said:
Ya know, JC, I'm not sure if these words have ever been uttered before, but, "a picture is like a 1000 words"!. Thank you, for the pics and the video too. I'll go pop open my hand hole cover and see what's what in there when someone depresses the clutch.

Guesses? A little 'stickin' goin on inside here??

jpilk99 · Sep 1, 2014

Thanks So much, JC. I'm getting ready for a busy week so may not get back to my tractor for a few days. Will likely report back during the week at some point. Have a good one.

jpilk99 · Oct 8, 2014

Well; good to see it only took me a month and a week... A few things to report:

Did your above steps and every time, the wheels spun in opposite direction from one another. I did it with:

Range (shifter on left) and Gear (shifter on right) both in neutral
Range (shifter on left) in 4 and Gear (shifter on right) in neutral (not exactly which gears there were in, but, both were in a gear/range)
Range (shifter on left) neutral and Gear (shifter on right) in gear
Range (shifter on left) and Gear (shifter on right) both in gear

I took off the loader this past weekend to finally get a look inside the "peep" or inspection hole. Throwout bearing slid forward and back. Plates appeared to separate. I actually thought, 'hmmm, it's resolve itself - the plates are not stuck together'. Started it up, had the Range in neutral, and then pressed the clutch and was able to put it in gear. Again, I thought, 'problem solved'. 'Yay'.

Put the loader back on and thought I was gonna get back to work, only to realize that it was happy to go into either Range but no Gear or Gear but no Range, but, for sure - NOT BOTH.

Should I shoot me; the tractor, or split it in half and replace the clutch? The first two I feel qualified to address. The last; not so much...

Thank you for your continued help!

Jay

JC-jetro · Oct 9, 2014

Hey jay,

Well, late is better never. As far as your options; "should I shoot me" ? I'm very much against it as I see no future in it. "shoot the tractor"? hmmm , Idea has some merits but If I were you , i'd take it(tractor) in the middle of the field, set it on fire and get a lawn chair and watch it. You'll get a better revenge with a better "entertainment value" and then you sell the rest as metal scrap. Now splitting in 1/2 and doing the clutch might be a better choice.

When I asked you to the following test was to figure out two major things.

1- if the clutch disengages while you push the clutch and tractor in gear. The rear wheels should rotate relatively freely.
2- if the clutch engages (stick) with the tractor in gear and clutch pedal out (not pushed in). The rear wheels should not turn easily unless you force flywheel to rotate and engine to reciprocate.

I wanted to find answer to those question. see if you can answer them.

Range (shifter on left) and Gear (shifter on right) both in neutral wheels should rotate freely.
Range (shifter on left) in 4 and Gear (shifter on right) in neutral (not exactly which gears there were in, but, both were in a gear/range) you are still in Neutral and wheels shold turn
Range (shifter on left) neutral and Gear (shifter on right) in gear you still are in neutral and wheels should turn
Range (shifter on left) and Gear (shifter on right) both in gear in this fix, the wheel should no easily turn ,and if it turns you have clutch issue.

What you have not answered yet is what change " clutching or not clutching" will make doing the test.

it is good that pushing clutch makes the throwout bearing to move back and forth so it is not riding the fingers on the pressure plate. You might be able to adjust it in to help for a better disengagement. tightening or loosening the clutch link will move the bearing closer or further to the pressure plate. You can get it as close as you can to the fingers without touching.

Explain this

only to realize that it was happy to go into either Range but no Gear or Gear but no Range, but, for sure - NOT BOTH.

are you having problem moving the shifters? that is not clutch problem. You have detent mechanism that might be jammed, (not rasberry of course), your shifter fork might be damaged and stuff like that.

Let's sort thru that before we go forward. seeing clutch disk engage and disengage by clutching thru the peep hole is also a very good sign.

JC,

jpilk99 · Oct 9, 2014

Hah. I just tried to be clever and do what you did with the inserted red text... spent 20 minutes crafting my response, and couldn't 'post' it. Ah well.

So, here it is again:

I did not understand that you wanted me to test the ability to turn the wheels, while in gear, with the clutch pedal depressed. I will jack it up and re-test.

When I did the 4 tests above, it felt the same each time - as the wheels turned in opposite direction each time, it felt like a gear was turning internally. Hardly any resistance, but, I could feel it. Let's see what happens when I go to turn the wheels with the clutch pedal depressed.

When you asked "explain this", I meant that with the tractor running I was able to easily depress the clutch and put the left (Range) shifter into a Range. OR; (with it in no range) I was able to depress the clutch and put the right shifter into a GEAR. However, if I had it already in either a Gear or a Range, and then, with the clutch pedal depressed, tried to put it into the other ...a Range or Gear respectively, it gave that horrible grinding sound. I cannot put the tractor, while running, into BOTH a Gear and Range at the same time. Only one or the other; not both.

Lastly, I will go up and jack up the rear and test again what happens with the clutch depressed and then turning the wheels and will report back. Please keep in mind that I have reinstalled the loader so trying to look inside that little peep hole is not readily possible. I will have to take the loader off again. (Cant understand why they'd build that loader mounting bracket in such a way as to cover 70% of the peep hole rending it unusable).

JC-jetro · Oct 9, 2014

Ok Jay, let's sort this out.

So, here it is again:

1-I did not understand that you wanted me to test the ability to turn the wheels, while in gear, with the clutch pedal depressed. I will jack it up and re-test.

I was more interested to know if the wheel turns while the clutch is not pressed. That is indication that clutch disk is making ful contact and not slipping. If the clutch disk and pressure plate are rusted or fused together then pressing the clutch would make no difference and it continues to be difficult to turn the wheels

2-When I did the 4 tests above, it felt the same each time - as the wheels turned in opposite direction each time, it felt like a gear was turning internally. Hardly any resistance, but, I could feel it. Let's see what happens when I go to turn the wheels with the clutch pedal depressed.

This might be where the problem lies.

Range (shifter on left) and Gear (shifter on right) both in gear in this fix, the wheel should no easily turn ,and if it turns you have clutch issue. if it does your clutch your clutch disk is either gone or riding the fingers that you by visuals inspection removed that possibilityy

3-When you asked "explain this", I meant that with the tractor running I was able to easily depress the clutch and put the left (Range) shifter into a Range. OR; (with it in no range) I was able to depress the clutch and put the right shifter into a GEAR. However, if I had it already in either a Gear or a Range, and then, with the clutch pedal depressed, tried to put it into the other ...a Range or Gear respectively, it gave that horrible grinding sound. I cannot put the tractor, while running, into BOTH a Gear and Range at the same time. Only one or the other; not both.

No , no no, you do not have synchronized gear, you can not shift on the fly, need to pick up range and gear and you go with that. some tractor like my Kubota has synchronized 3rd& 4th gear so on the fly I can change gear but not with 1st and 2nd gear. This is not clutch problem , you are operating your rig incorrectly and can smoke out your gear box soon

4-Lastly, I will go up and jack up the rear and test again what happens with the clutch depressed and then turning the wheels and will report back. Please keep in mind that I have reinstalled the loader so trying to look inside that little peep hole is not readily possible. I will have to take the loader off again. (Cant understand why they'd build that loader mounting bracket in such a way as to cover 70% of the peep hole rending it unusable).
Again, keep the range on let say 3rd, gear in 4th and with clutch not pressed try, you should have a harder time turning if clutch disk making a full contact.

JC,