2013 dodge 3500 HD trailer towing uprated to 30,000lbs

[Case485Guy]

Sorry, misread your post. Per the info posted on this thread, with a trailer GVW of 10k (or less), a tow unit GVW of 26K or less and no odd stuff (buses, hazmat, etc) you can legally gross 36k between the truck and trailer without having a CDL. If your trailer is rated for OVER 10k, you can only gross 26k without a CDL.

Aaron Z

Nope, wrong, see flow chart box #3. Box #3 does not care what the trailer weighs. It states vehicle(s) with mfg rating 26,0001 lbs and more-class A. Really whats so hard not to understand? This box directly relates, nulls and voids the idea that a 26k truck can pull a 10k trailer and not require a CDL
Truck more than 26,001-CDL
pulling a trailer gvwr 10,001-CDL
A truck/trailer combo over 26,001 GCVWR- CDL

I so wished we could hook up and cross a scale in the morning and see how many tickets got written. This is comical to think a person could circumvent a law clearly requiring a truck with a 26001 gvwr-CDL, requires that a trailer with a 10,001 lbs requires a CDL----which means that a guy in a F250 pulling a car trailer with 2-5400 lbs axles is required to have a CDL due to trailer being over 10,001 lbs GVWR, but the sneaky people can go get a truck rated for 26k and hook up a trailer for 10k and roll past the scale house laughing and grossing 36k, because they used Hill Billy logic and out smarted them thar police.

Yep, heres your sign:banghead:

 

[crazyal]

Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV)s and does the driver need a CDL?

Guidance: No to both questions. Although the vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 36,000 pounds, it is not a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) under any part of the definition of that term in ｧ383.5, and a CDL is not federally required.

Getting back to the subject, the Dodge 3500, it's GCWR is 37600 lbs. The GVWR is 11500 lbs (I think). The way I read the CDL requirements is that if you want to tow a trailer that weighs more than 10k you need a CDL if you are over 26K.

From the VT website:
A Commercial Driver's License (CDL) is required to legally operate:

Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 26,001 pounds or more.
A vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver).
Any size vehicle that is used in the transportation of any material that requires hazardous materials placards or any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR 73.


Yes you can rent a U-haul truck with a GVWR of 26k and tow a trailer that weighs less than 10k. But that wasn't my point. My point is, and still stands, if you buy a Dodge 3500 with a GCWR of 37600 lbs you can't go over 26000 lbs (unless under a few exemptions) without requiring a CDL license in Vermont or Washington. I haven't read every state, nor do I want to, but I'm guessing this holds true for every state.

To repeat, my point is if you buy a pickup (1/2, 3/4, 1 ton) anything over 26k puts you into CDL territory. If you want to tow more than 10K once you pass 26k you best know that you are exempt before, not after getting stopped.

 

[aczlan]

Nope, wrong, see flow chart box #3. Box #3 does not care what the trailer weighs. It states vehicle(s) with mfg rating 26,0001 lbs and more-class A. Really whats so hard not to understand? This box directly relates, nulls and voids the idea that a 26k truck can pull a 10k trailer and not require a CDL
Truck more than 26,001-CDL
pulling a trailer gvwr 10,001-CDL
A truck/trailer combo over 26,001 GCVWR- CDL
I so wished we could hook up and cross a scale in the morning and see how many tickets got written. This is comical to think a person could circumvent a law clearly requiring a truck with a 26001 gvwr-CDL, requires that a trailer with a 10,001 lbs requires a CDL----which means that a guy in a F250 pulling a car trailer with 2-5400 lbs axles is required to have a CDL due to trailer being over 10,001 lbs GVWR, but the sneaky people can go get a truck rated for 26k and hook up a trailer for 10k and roll past the scale house laughing and grossing 36k, because they used Hill Billy logic and out smarted them thar police.

Yep, heres your sign:banghead:

Let me show you how I am following the flowchart and you can correct me if I am wrong. I added numbers to the flowchart (as seen below) to make it easier to follow:

Lets follow it for a trailer that weighs 10k behind a truck rated for 26k:

• Box 1: Combination vehicle Yes/No > Yes, proceed to Box 2.
• Box 2: Trailer rated for more than 10k > NO, proceed to Box 5
• Box 5: Is the truck rated for more than 26k > No, proceed to Box 7
• Box 7: Can the truck seat 16+ people > No, proceed to Box 9
• Box 9: Is it a school bus > No, proceed to Box 11
• Box 11: Are you hauling Hazmat > No, proceed to Box 13
• Box 13: CDL not needed
• You can legally haul 36k with a 10k trailer and a 26k truck WITHOUT needing a CDL

Lets follow it for a trailer that weighs 16k behind a truck rated for 10k:

• Box 1: Combination vehicle Yes/No > Yes, proceed to Box 2.
• Box 2: Trailer rated for more than 10k > Yes, proceed to Box 3
• Box 3: Is the combination for more than 26k > No, proceed to Box 5
• Box 5: Is the truck rated for more than 26k > No, proceed to Box 7
• Box 7: Can the truck seat 16+ people > No, proceed to Box 9
• Box 9: Is it a school bus > No, proceed to Box 11
• Box 11: Are you hauling Hazmat > No, proceed to Box 13
• Box 13: CDL not needed
• You can legally haul 26k with a 16k trailer and a 10k truck WITHOUT needing a CDL

Lets follow it for a trailer that weighs 16k behind a truck rated for 12k:

• Box 1: Combination vehicle Yes/No > Yes, proceed to Box 2.
• Box 2: Trailer rated for more than 10k > Yes, proceed to Box 3
• Box 3: Is the combination for more than 26k > Yes, proceed to Box 4
• Box 4: Class A License required
• You cannot legally haul 28k with a 16k trailer and a 12k truck WITHOUT a CDL

Lets follow it for a trailer that weighs 11k behind a truck rated for 12k:

• Box 1: Combination vehicle Yes/No > Yes, proceed to Box 2.
• Box 2: Trailer rated for more than 10k > Yes, proceed to Box 3
• Box 3: Is the combination for more than 26k > No, proceed to Box 5
• Box 5: Is the truck rated for more than 26k > No, proceed to Box 7
• Box 7: Can the truck seat 16+ people > No, proceed to Box 9
• Box 9: Is it a school bus > No, proceed to Box 11
• Box 11: Are you hauling Hazmat > No, proceed to Box 13
• Box 13: CDL not needed
• You can legally haul 23k with a 11k trailer and a 12k truck WITHOUT needing a CDL

Lets follow it for a trailer that weighs 10k behind a truck rated for 28k:

• Box 1: Combination vehicle Yes/No > Yes, proceed to Box 2.
• Box 2: Trailer rated for more than 10k > NO, proceed to Box 5
• Box 5: Is the truck rated for more than 26k > Yes, proceed to Box 6
• Box 6: Class B License required
• You cannot legally haul 38k with a 10k trailer and a 28k truck WITHOUT a CDL

Did I miss anything? If so, please point it out.

Aaron Z

 

[jagyzf]

Rock, another interesting read. This one has alot of cool info but what pertains to our discussion is in Chapter 8 towards the bottom if you scroll down

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/EE2D33C7-E6A0-4C58-9BD9-AE05C003B327/0/VehicleGuide.pdf

I definitely agree, its hard to change the minds of people that cant follow the flow chart, especially when it clearly states the manufacturers rating of your combination is 26,001 lbs or more, a class A CDL is required.

You need to read what is before that to the left on your chart. It says is your trailer rated for greater than 10K. It it was a gross combination, then the rating of the trailer wouldn't matter.

Did you every take truth tables in math? Your know if P then Q and all that? I only ask because as others have said that and makes all the difference. If it were an OR you would be correct, but it is not. If the weight of the trailer had no bearing and it was anything over 26000 lbs they could simpliy say any single or combination of vehicles. Yet they don't, they throw in the 10K trailer part.

BTW I had a single axle truck rated at 26K and asked this very question of the DOT and they told me I had it right. At least here in NY, and for a while had a trailer that was 10K rated. Never was question on it, but I didn't drive long distances, just between my place and some land I was playing around with.

 

[Rock knocker]

You need to read what is before that to the left on your chart. It says is your trailer rated for greater than 10K. It it was a gross combination, then the rating of the trailer wouldn't matter.

Did you every take truth tables in math? Your know if P then Q and all that? I only ask because as others have said that and makes all the difference. If it were an OR you would be correct, but it is not. If the weight of the trailer had no bearing and it was anything over 26000 lbs they could simpliy say any single or combination of vehicles. Yet they don't, they throw in the 10K trailer part.

BTW I had a single axle truck rated at 26K and asked this very question of the DOT and they told me I had it right. At least here in NY, and for a while had a trailer that was 10K rated. Never was question on it, but I didn't drive long distances, just between my place and some land I was playing around with.

I don't think certain individuals did in fact take truth tables, because some individuals cannot seem to follow them.

As Crazy Al pointed out, the Feds explictly deal with this question. Because of interstate commerce, the answer derived for WA, NY and the Feds is probably in fact universal for the United States because individual states cannot hinder the shipment of interstate freight.

 

[Rock knocker]

My point is, and still stands, if you buy a Dodge 3500 with a GCWR of 37600 lbs you can't go over 26000 lbs (unless under a few exemptions) without requiring a CDL license in Vermont or Washington. I haven't read every state, nor do I want to, but I'm guessing this holds true for every state.

To repeat, my point is if you buy a pickup (1/2, 3/4, 1 ton) anything over 26k puts you into CDL territory. If you want to tow more than 10K once you pass 26k you best know that you are exempt before, not after getting stopped.

You are right, Dr. Crazy Al

 

[pclausen]

I got a 2002 Chevy Duramax 1 ton and lately I have been grossing around 30,000 lbs hauling logs on my 22,000 lbs trailer.

Here's a recent ticket from the lumber yard:

My truck is about 8100 lbs, so that means the trailer empty is about 5960 lbs.

This is what the load looked like (I did add straps before heading to the mill )

Looking at the sticker on my door, it doesn't really tell me if I'm "legal" or not.

I have pulled loads like this going past local and state police, and they have never even given me a second look. Maybe things are just "lax" where I am, or me pulling this type of load does not seem to be an issue.

I wholeheartedly agree with earlier comments about knowing having experience hauling heavy loads. No way I would be able to slow down 30,000 lbs fast enough if I did not anticipate "issues" and maintained a much longer following distance that I would in a passenger car. As far as my truck holding up, I'm at about 120k and have yet to encounter any issue with the transmission, rear axle or engine (other than needing to change the fuel injectors, but that has nothing to do with towing).

My Duramax is "chipped" (Predator at 85hp setting), and I do have to watch engine temps when climbing hills, but so far it has been rock solid.

I'm glad to hear new 1 ton pickups are now officially rated for towing these kinds of loads. If (when ?) my trusty Duramax finally gives up, I might have to look at these new trucks!

 

[fordmantpw]

My money says that you ARE illegal because your truck probably isn't licensed for that kind of load.

 

[crazyal]

The GVWR on my IHC dump says 27,500. There have been plenty of times that I've crossed the scales at over 30k. I think I've seen almost 32k once. At least one of the loader operators loves to see if he can put so much gravel in that the truck can't drive out of the pit. Not an issue for me since it's 4wd and the transfer case has an extremely low low range. It's only 3 miles down a lightly traveled road between my house and the pit. On occasion I have passed police and even one DMV truck over the years. Just because I've never been pulled over doesn't make it legal. I have the truck registered as Ag and only use it to get gravel for the farm so I'm not required to have a CDL or even list a weight on the registration, that would allow me to get away from a serious fine.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have had my 2006 F350 PowerStroke 4x4 SRW at 32,500# atleast 20 times. Its handles it just fine for the 30 mile trip.

My 99 SRW 4x4 PowerStroke used to pull my 25 +5 GN loaded that was 6,500# empty and was rated at 25,000# all the time.

The trucks are more than capable.

Chris