2014 GM trucks recalled. DON'T DRIVE!

[two_bit_score]

Do you guys know why Ford was given a 5.9B loan? Because the EPA said go develop new fuel efficient vehicles.

Ford Gets $5.9 Billion Government Loan | Fox News

There is a difference between a bailout and a development loan.

So, essentially they took government tax money to develop and build new fuel efficient vehicles.

 

[aczlan]

DP, what he says about the potential affect on the suppliers seems to have some validity. You can goole search and several articles do come up that make that assertion.

And there are those who say that a "normal" Chapter 11 would have been fairer to the suppliers: Mark Roe Says Suppliers Might Be Better Off If General Motors Enters Into Chapter 11 - WSJ.com

Aaron Z

 

[Pixguy]

What about the GM shareholders who were told that their stock was now worthless?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

So, essentially they took government tax money to develop and build new fuel efficient vehicles.

Right it sort of goes like this:

The EPA says we want cars to get 65mpg by 2030.

The entire auto industry says that doing so will price the average auto beyond the average consumer's price range.

The EPA then says that they are willing the shoulder the costs until economics of scale can lower the cost of future technology.

Since GM was too busy just trying to swim while ripping off its bondholders, and we gave away Chrysler to the Italians, the two largest, functioning auto OEMs who were at the very beginning of a new development cycle where Ford and Nissan. Thus Ford and Nissan received funding first since they were ready to begin a new development cycle. As more auto OEMs come round to new development cycle, they too will receive money.

Properly framed, the auto OEMs are taking money in order to try to hit the EPA goals with cost-effective, new technology that is affordable for the masses. Without the funding, the entire auto industry told the EPA nobody could afford the kinds of vehicles that could meet the EPA standards with available technology.

If you have trouble with this government lending program, vote for people who tree hug less.

 

[Diamondpilot]

And there are those who say that a "normal" Chapter 11 would have been fairer to the suppliers: Mark Roe Says Suppliers Might Be Better Off If General Motors Enters Into Chapter 11 - WSJ.com

Aaron Z

Yep. My fathers company got $.03 on the dollar.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

What about the GM shareholders who were told that their stock was now worthless?

Or the owners of older GM vehicles who say GM knows there are issues with them but the "New GM" is not responsible.

Chris

 

[George2615]

Right it sort of goes like this:

The EPA says we want cars to get 65mpg by 2030.

The entire auto industry says that doing so will price the average auto beyond the average consumer's price range.

65 MPG ? I'll believe it when I see it. I guess cars will have to be entirely made of plastic to accomplish this. Maybe carbon fiber.

The average auto / truck price is already beyond most average workers grasp. Especially trucks. I know my own wage has not kept up with inflation over the past 40 years. 40 years ago the average price of a 3/4T truck was about 1/2 my annual wage. Today the same truck is equal to or in most cases higher than my annual wage.

 

[Diamondpilot]

65 MPG ? I'll believe it when I see it. I guess cars will have to be entirely made of plastic to accomplish this. Maybe carbon fiber.

The average auto / truck price is already beyond most average workers grasp. Especially trucks. I know my own wage has not kept up with inflation over the past 40 years. 40 years ago the average price of a 3/4T truck was about 1/2 my annual wage. Today the same truck is equal to or in most cases higher than my annual wage.

I think 65 mpg is possible. My neighbor had a TDI VW that did 51 and now has a Prius that does the same.

Chris

 

[George2615]

yes, but the TDI is a diesel and the Prius is a hybrid. I expect those type cars to get good mileage. When are they going to make a truck that can get 40MPG and still be able to have a decent tow rating. Diesel cars have been around for a while and are known for decent mileage. A friend of mine had a diesel Cadillac a few years ago that got 25 MPG city and over 30 highway. I think diesel vehicles is the way to go to get higher mileage, the problem is the EPA approving them for emissions.
Gas vehicles are a different animal. They can only do so much to maintain the proper air / fuel ratio. More gears in the transmission would help keep engines in the most efficient HP to torque range. Mfgs. have been slowly making those changes going from single and 2 speeds of years gone by to 6 speed autos in trucks today. Some cars now have 8 speed autos. Weight reduction is about all they have left to increase mileage.

 

[two_bit_score]

Right it sort of goes like this:

The EPA says we want cars to get 65mpg by 2030.

The entire auto industry says that doing so will price the average auto beyond the average consumer's price range.

The EPA then says that they are willing the shoulder the costs until economics of scale can lower the cost of future technology.

Since GM was too busy just trying to swim while ripping off its bondholders, and we gave away Chrysler to the Italians, the two largest, functioning auto OEMs who were at the very beginning of a new development cycle where Ford and Nissan. Thus Ford and Nissan received funding first since they were ready to begin a new development cycle. As more auto OEMs come round to new development cycle, they too will receive money.

Properly framed, the auto OEMs are taking money in order to try to hit the EPA goals with cost-effective, new technology that is affordable for the masses. Without the funding, the entire auto industry told the EPA nobody could afford the kinds of vehicles that could meet the EPA standards with available technology.

If you have trouble with this government lending program, vote for people who tree hug less.

Well, Eric, thats a lot of beating around the bush to say, simply, Ford took tax money to build cars that are supposed to get better fuel mileage.

Bottom line is there are Fords built with tax money.