3/4 ton vs. 1 ton

[rustyshakelford]

I haven't had a chance to go look at it again, but I did see it still out front at the dealer yesterday.

I took some time to read the Dodge Cummins forum and I'm getting a little hesitant about buying a Cab/chassis truck.

I had never heard of them being 'detuned' until some of you guys mentioned it here. It seems to be a big issue. And I know that my brother (a John Deere Mechanic) drives a 2012 C&C 3500 as his work truck, and he complained that he had trouble crossing the Mississippi River Bridge in Baton Rouge with it even though he never pulls a load with it.

And my truck (2012 Dodge 2500) has no problem climbing the bridge with a fully loaded trailer in tow.

I still want to go drive it, but just don't know when I'll get time. I wonder if the dealer would let me tow my trailer with it for a test drive?

I bet they would. Sure wouldnt hurt to ask anyways.

Good luck

Brett

 

[scaredychicken]

yes, a test drive tow would be good idea (as long as they maintain the liability if something happens mechanically)

 

[scaredychicken]

well, this is a cliff-hanger thread...

 

[Arc weld]

The best way to try it out is with a trailer and what you intend to pull with it. That's the only way you'll know how it compares to your current truck. If the dealer won't let you, walk away, there's lots of used trucks out there and good financing on new ones. Also keep in mind this dealer wouldn't have bought it unless it was a really good deal at the auction. You may be able to find out what they paid for it as well. Auctioneers often post the selling prices of their auctions. It would have been better if the dealer had sold the truck new and had a history on it to justify a premium price for you to upgrade. Was it sold at auction because there was a problem with it? Maybe there is a maintenance history on it through Dodge or Carfax or something.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

The carfax report is clean. I just have not had time to go look at it and test drive it.

And, since I found out that it is 'detuned', I have somewhat lost interest. I did see it is still at the dealer today.

 

[dodge man]

Here is my take on the detuned thing. The truck wars have caused this huge horsepower war, it seems worse for the diesels. They turn up the boost and fuel in these trucks to get that kind of power. Its still the same engine, you could always add a tuner if it was that important. I once had someone tell me there is a given amount of horsepower to get out of an engine. He said do you want all that power in one day or over a period of 20 years?

 

[Fordman1981]

Here is my take on the detuned thing. The truck wars have caused this huge horsepower war, it seems worse for the diesels. They turn up the boost and fuel in these trucks to get that kind of power. Its still the same engine, you could always add a tuner if it was that important. I once had someone tell me there is a given amount of horsepower to get out of an engine. He said do you want all that power in one day or over a period of 20 years?

Well said. I have a Ram 5500 in my fleet and at its max capacity it has never ran out of power. The ford V10 on the other hand has well under its max capacity.

 

[brown40]

Yeah, I wouldn't let the 'detuning' bother you; they're pulling torque and horsepower numbers out of engines that are beyond logical, and used to take much more displacement. High compression, high stress, high heat, smaller components to bear it. It'd be nice if diesel manufacturers could let the consumer pick the 'tune' they want to play: smoke the tires, economy, maximum torque, etc.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I started this thread on 06.13.15, and today is 07.06.15, and the truck is still there. I texted the salesman this morning to go test drive it, and he said it is not available because they are waiting on a tire and wheel for it. Apparently someone needed a wheel, so they robbed one off this truck and ordered a new one. He said he would text me when it becomes available again.

The truck has been on their lot for about 6 weeks now. I'm hoping they are getting eager to sell it, so my offer will probably be going down.

 

[Old Junk Man]

I drove semi for years. and I now use a 3/4 ton. In Arkansas a ton truck comes under the DOT. you better have a health card , log book and load manifest. and be able to scale on every axle. with a 3/4 ton none of that is required. and the only weight limit is what is on the sidewall of your tires. I use split rims and 14 ply lowboy tires on my trailer. 3,750 pounds. per tire that's 15,000 on the 4 trailer tires and the truck will have some weight on it also.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I drove semi for years. and I now use a 3/4 ton. In Arkansas a ton truck comes under the DOT. you better have a health card , log book and load manifest. and be able to scale on every axle. with a 3/4 ton none of that is required. and the only weight limit is what is on the sidewall of your tires. I use split rims and 14 ply lowboy tires on my trailer. 3,750 pounds. per tire that's 15,000 on the 4 trailer tires and the truck will have some weight on it also.

From what I understand, each state is different. I did a little research for here in Louisiana, and this is what I found. It looks like a 'chauffeur's licence' is required for this vehicle as long as the combined GVWR stays below 26,001 lbs. A 'chauffeur's license' (in Louisiana) does not require the pre-trip inspection and all the other things required of a CDL. My trailer has a GVWR of 11,000 lbs and this truck has a GVWR of 13,000 lbs., therefore in Louisiana, a CDL is not required.

R.S. 32:408 B.(2)(d) and 405.1:
Class "D" Chauffeurs Driver's License
Age Requirements: 17 years or above.
Permits the operation of all vehicles included in Class "E" plus any single motor vehicle
used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle has a gross
vehicle weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds but less than 26,001 pounds, or any
combination of vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the
vehicle has a combined vehicle weight rating of 10,001 or more pounds but less than
26,001 pounds inclusive of a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than
10,000 pounds; or any vehicle designed or utilized for the transportation of passengers for
hire or fee; and not utilized in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous under
the provisions of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act which requires the vehicle to
bear a placard under the provision of Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR Part 172,
Subpart F).
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[Complete Turf Care]

I drove semi for years. and I now use a 3/4 ton. In Arkansas a ton truck comes under the DOT. you better have a health card , log book and load manifest. and be able to scale on every axle. with a 3/4 ton none of that is required. and the only weight limit is what is on the sidewall of your tires. I use split rims and 14 ply lowboy tires on my trailer. 3,750 pounds. per tire that's 15,000 on the 4 trailer tires and the truck will have some weight on it also.

I also found this on the Arkansas, but it looks like it's a 'generic' manual, and not specific for Arkansas.

You must have a CDL to operate:
• A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of
more than 26,000 pounds.
• A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds if the
gross combination weight rating is more than 26,000 pounds.
• A vehicle designed to transport more than 15 persons
(including the driver).
• Any size vehicle which requires hazardous materials placards.
(Your state may have additional definitions of CMVs.)

 

[Copperhead]

A 'chauffeur's license' (in Louisiana) does not require the pre-trip inspection and all the other things required of a CDL.
i

That does beg the question though, why wouldn't you do a pre-trip inspection of your pickup and trailer anyway, even if it didn't require anything more than a standard driver license? I see folks every day along the road broke down in which, most times, the issue could have been caught before they ever started off down the road. No tire pressure monitor thing is going to let you know you are starting to have side wall separation on a tire. The time to find you have burnt up a hub is when you see that there is oil or grease coming from it rather than after it has burnt up and has you on the side of the road.

After all, really, how much longer does it take to go around the pickup and trailer and inspect it, make sure all tie downs are secure, etc? Compared to the other things that could happen because you didn't?

Sorry, just the commercial driver in me coming out. Can't log over 5 million miles like I have, without an accident, and not have this kind of thing ingrained into your being. I don't EVER go on any kind of a trip, or tow anything, without having first done a complete check of everything before starting out for the day, and spot checks every time I stop and get out of the pickup. We have a term on trucking for those that don't do similarly.... steering wheel holders.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

That does beg the question though, why wouldn't you do a pre-trip inspection of your pickup and trailer anyway, even if it didn't require anything more than a standard driver license? I see folks every day along the road broke down in which, most times, the issue could have been caught before they ever started off down the road. No tire pressure monitor thing is going to let you know you are starting to have side wall separation on a tire. The time to find you have burnt up a hub is when you see that there is oil or grease coming from it rather than after it has burnt up and has you on the side of the road.

After all, really, how much longer does it take to go around the pickup and trailer and inspect it, make sure all tie downs are secure, etc? Compared to the other things that could happen because you didn't?

Sorry, just the commercial driver in me coming out. Can't log over 5 million miles like I have, without an accident, and not have this kind of thing ingrained into your being. I don't EVER go on any kind of a trip, or tow anything, without having first done a complete check of everything before starting out for the day, and spot checks every time I stop and get out of the pickup. We have a term on trucking for those that don't do similarly.... steering wheel holders.

These are words of wisdom. We should all do as you do.

By the way, the salesman texted me today that the truck is available for me to go test drive it again, but I can't get there for a few days now.

 

[wmonroe]

That does beg the question though, why wouldn't you do a pre-trip inspection of your pickup and trailer anyway, even if it didn't require anything more than a standard driver license? I see folks every day along the road broke down in which, most times, the issue could have been caught before they ever started off down the road. No tire pressure monitor thing is going to let you know you are starting to have side wall separation on a tire. The time to find you have burnt up a hub is when you see that there is oil or grease coming from it rather than after it has burnt up and has you on the side of the road. After all, really, how much longer does it take to go around the pickup and trailer and inspect it, make sure all tie downs are secure, etc? Compared to the other things that could happen because you didn't? Sorry, just the commercial driver in me coming out. Can't log over 5 million miles like I have, without an accident, and not have this kind of thing ingrained into your being. I don't EVER go on any kind of a trip, or tow anything, without having first done a complete check of everything before starting out for the day, and spot checks every time I stop and get out of the pickup. We have a term on trucking for those that don't do similarly.... steering wheel holders.

Very true post. I think part of it is cars are so much more reliable today that people are used to just getting in and driving without putting any thought into the "working parts".

 

[Old Junk Man]

Doing a PTI and being required to log it are two different things. I always stopped about every 150 mile,s and walked around the truck. placed my hand on the tires . if one was hotter I checked for it being low or the hub being hot ect. checked the chains & boomers and cleaned off the Rear lights and license plate. cleaned the bugs from the windshield also. listened for air leaks also. and most importiantly took a leak.

 

[Old Junk Man]

• A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds . Ok so you have a ton truck and your pulling a tandem axle trailer. the trailer itself will weigh at least 2,000 pounds. so that leaves you only able to haul 8,000 pounds. on the trailer. and you will need to have that 8,000 evenly split on the axles. Ive hauled 7500 pounds of scrap metal in the bed of my 71 3/4 ton on many occasions.

 

[Copperhead]

Doing a PTI and being required to log it are two different things. I always stopped about every 150 mile,s and walked around the truck. placed my hand on the tires . if one was hotter I checked for it being low or the hub being hot ect. checked the chains & boomers and cleaned off the Rear lights and license plate. cleaned the bugs from the windshield also. listened for air leaks also. and most importiantly took a leak.

I am not so sure they are two different things. For instance, as a flat bedder, you are required by FMCSA regulations to make periodic checks on your load securement. One does not have to show a 15 minute block on a log, but they need to flag it on the log. Essentially, to make sure that one is well within the regulatory requirements, and to look good in the event one is stopped and checked, showing such things on the log are sound advise and show to an LEO that these things are being done. A simple one line "flag" on the log suffices and no actual time for the process is shown. now that being said, if one is not running a log, nothing changes. The same checks should be made. For instance, a commercial driver, even a class 8 semi truck driver, is not required to log anything if they are within a 100 air mile radius operation. Yet, the same thing holds true, they need to make proper pre-trips and mid trip checks of equipment, and an end of day post trip.

But all of this log or no log thing will disappear once they implement mandatory electronic logging before too long. Even the local running will require some aspect of logging.

 

[motownbrowne]

• A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds . Ok so you have a ton truck and your pulling a tandem axle trailer. the trailer itself will weigh at least 2,000 pounds. so that leaves you only able to haul 8,000 pounds. on the trailer. and you will need to have that 8,000 evenly split on the axles. Ive hauled 7500 pounds ofView attachment 432333View attachment 432334 scrap metal in the bed of my 71 3/4 ton on many occasions.

Well, the requirement was to have a cdl if your trailer is over 10k and the total weight of the truck and trailer is over 26k, so since most 3/4 or 1 tons are under 10k loaded, you can get away with a trailer quite a bit heavier than 10k.

Also, putting 7,500lbs in the bed of a 3/4 ton is either a gross exaggeration or totally unsafe. There's no way that the gvwr of that machine is over 9000lbs, and it's got to weigh at least 4,000, probably more. I don't see how you could put 7,500 and not be well overweight.

 

[aczlan]

Also, putting 7,500lbs in the bed of a 3/4 ton is either a gross exaggeration or totally unsafe. There's no way that the gvwr of that machine is over 9000lbs, and it's got to weigh at least 4,000, probably more. I don't see how you could put 7,500 and not be well overweight.

4000#? Our 1997 1/2 ton Dodge is almost 6000# unloaded. Most "full size" cars (like my 1997 Volvo V90) are 4000#.
IIRC, most 3/4 ton trucks are 7000# to 8000# unloaded.

Aaron Z