3pt Log winch/grapple

Rustyiron · Feb 10, 2016

Jim Timber said:
I don't really care what Ramsey claims for line speed. I want to see it pulling a big log and compare that to how my PTO driven winch pulls.

Jim I don't think you can compare the two, your pto winch would pull circles around my hyd. winch for sure. I put a pto winch on a 67 Bronco I had when I was a "hellion" kid, that thing was unstoppable.

Jim Timber · Feb 10, 2016

50fpm is what the PTO winch pulls at with the tractor at 1000rpm. If your hydraulic (or a different faster model) can keep that speed with my 11gpm flow, then there's some merit to going hydraulic.

The other thing I have in mind is a box mounted winch on my dump truck to pull wood up from the landing. Something like this would work super slick for that application. I'm not sure what the flow on that pump is (since I've yet to install it).

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 11, 2016

Mile Marker hydraulic winches (which are the ones most of us are familiar with from Jeeps/trucks etc used for wheeling) are silly slow. Jim's analogy of winching at the speed of beard growth isn't far off. Sure, they will run all day but they have to with those speeds, it would take an hour to do what my Warn will do in minutes. Their H9000 is a whopping 6.16 ft/min in low pulling 9000 lbs on the first layer. High speed on the first layer will get you 33.6 ft/min but only pulls 1500 lbs. Hyd requirements of 3.5 gpm @ 1500 psi which IIRC, is pretty standard for a power steering pump output. Mile Markers are all planetary from what I can see which makes their specs even more pathetic.

With Ramsey, you have a choice of worm gear or planetary gear. Worm gear 8000's are pulling between 12 and 32 ft/min depending on hyd flow between 15 gpm @ 1800 and 2500 psi. In the planetary design, there are many choices with decent line speed (50 ft/min give or take) from 15 gpm which with Jim's 11 would still work decent. They even have one winch that will pull 100 ft/min from 4 gpm @ 2500 psi. Too bad it's only rated for 1000 lbs.

I have no delusions that as a heavily used skidding winch a PTO one is FAR superior to hydraulic. I believe all you guys on that one. I also believe that there are some people that can get by just fine with a hydraulic one. Wallensten must agree as they offer a 3500 lb one for 15-30 hp tractors. Considering I don't even own a woodlot and am just cutting firewood from the neighbour's or fence lines, I'm sure I can get by. It's still a step up from rigging chains/cable and having to pull with the tractor.

Now if I could just get a return phone call from the Ramsey dealer with a price.......

Rustyiron · Feb 11, 2016

CDN Farm Boy said:
Now if I could just get a return phone call from the Ramsey dealer with a price.......

CDN, fwiw I got mine "mail order" from a towing supply outfit called AW direct.AW Direct: Towing Equipment, Work Truck Supplies & Accessories
Price is on the site. I have dealt with them for 10 years or longer, no complaints.

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 12, 2016

Thanks Rusty. Contacted them this morning and am waiting for the return quote

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 18, 2016

AW Direct got back to me. They claim to only deal with towing winches and this is a crane winch so they can't help -- same story as other places. Called Ramsey again and asked WTF, where do I buy one of these? I was advised to ask for a price on part # 123308 rather than the winch model as every Ramsey dealer has access to every part & model.

Dealer #1 quote of $6500 CDN
Dealer #2 quote of $6100 CDN and offered advice that as it is a specialty winch and not that common and any of the 8000s would be much cheaper. Called me back a bit later with $2960 CDN for an 8000#
Dealer #3 in Syracuse quoted $3770 USD plus freight which at current exchange is about $5400 CDN not including the freight.

Clearly at those numbers, A new hyd winch isn't going to happen. I can buy a whole wrecker body on the used market right now for $1500 or a ready-to-go PTO skidding winch starting at $3000 CDN. Oh well, the grapple was always my priority anyway. I'll figure way to mount a winch when I find one that is a little more reasonably priced.

Frame pieces are cut and I'll start welding in the next day or two and have just about got the drawings for the grapple patterns ready to send my buddy for printing.

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 21, 2016

As I hope to add a winch to this in the future, it will be built with that in mind, not just as a grapple. Started off with a 42" length of 8" wide flange I beam and cut one flange off to make the blade/anchor

5" heavy channel I had laying around to make the 36" 'verticals' and a piece of 3.5 x 5" angle iron salvaged from an old brick lintel to cap the top. Width of the 'verticals' at the base plate is 32" and 12" at the top. This is laying face down on my bench to check alignment of everything and keep it flat. I still have to notch the top of the channel to allow flush mount of the angle top piece. That 12" top should allow me to bolt on a hyd winch up there similar to how Rusty did his if I ever find one suitable. Pins are being set 16" above the bottom which should allow for 8" below grade for winching anchor and still get 12" of clearance fully raised without factoring in adjusting the hyd top link. I'll get this all tacked together and mount it to double check everything before I fully burn in the welds.

CDN Farm Boy · Feb 21, 2016

I've got 2 drawings now for the grapple.

The first one with the "Bruce method" mentioned back in post #12

For the second, I started with the first and then adjusted it based on measurements and photos that Rusty emailed me:

They are fairly similar but with some notable differences. Vertical height is within an inch of each other and the opening is similar with at 39.5 and 43.5

With the "Bruce grapple", I much prefer how the grapple closes in on itself in a more compact package and the remaining opening (when fully closed) is more centered under the mounting point. The downside to the "Bruce grapple" is that it only uses about 7" of the available 8" stroke cyl. The 2 sides are different from each other with about 5/8" difference in the pin centers

With the "Rusty grapple", both sides of the grapple are identical and the motion of the linkages perfectly suits an 8" hyd cyl. The downside is I don't care for how it closes (at least in my drawing) and isn't nearly as compact when fully closed. This one should have more clamping force available as the cyl & cross link mount are further from the pivot pins

mikefromnh · Feb 22, 2016

CDN Farm Boy said:
AW Direct got back to me. They claim to only deal with towing winches and this is a crane winch so they can't help -- same story as other places. Called Ramsey again and asked WTF, where do I buy one of these? I was advised to ask for a price on part # 123308 rather than the winch model as every Ramsey dealer has access to every part & model.

Dealer #1 quote of $6500 CDN
Dealer #2 quote of $6100 CDN and offered advice that as it is a specialty winch and not that common and any of the 8000s would be much cheaper. Called me back a bit later with $2960 CDN for an 8000#
Dealer #3 in Syracuse quoted $3770 USD plus freight which at current exchange is about $5400 CDN not including the freight.

Clearly at those numbers, A new hyd winch isn't going to happen. I can buy a whole wrecker body on the used market right now for $1500 or a ready-to-go PTO skidding winch starting at $3000 CDN. Oh well, the grapple was always my priority anyway. I'll figure way to mount a winch when I find one that is a little more reasonably priced.

Frame pieces are cut and I'll start welding in the next day or two and have just about got the drawings for the grapple patterns ready to send my buddy for printing.