$500,000.00 fine and/or 5 years in federal prison for a first offense. John Deere

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Taxes are unconstitutional and illegal.

Just for fun, let's look at the very first power granted to Congress, in that quaint document that people who have never read it are fond of quoting:the U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The. Very. First. Power. Of. Congress.

Taxes.



Oddly enough, "I don't like it!" is not quite the same thing as, "unconstitutional and illegal".

 

[paulfun9]

So if my trans goes south 7 years after purchase can I replace it without paying a dealership to reprogram the trans from the wrecking yard to work in my tractor?

If my computer dies am I able to take one from a rolled tractor sitting in the local scrap yard and plug it in and go?

If the answer to any of these questions in no or probably not then they are just looking for a new way to make us pay even more for an already overpriced machine.

 

[OkieDave]

Just for fun, let's look at the very first power granted to Congress, in that quaint document that people who have never read it are fond of quoting:the U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8:

The. Very. First. Power. Of. Congress.

Taxes.



Oddly enough, "I don't like it!" is not quite the same thing as, "unconstitutional and illegal".

Ah, but you're forgetting Article I, Section 2: "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers...." Originally, the states paid taxes to fed.gov (which makes the structure of the Senate, being chose by the states instead of directly elected, make more sense), not the people. The Sixteenth Amendment established the basis for the direct income tax, but there's a long-standing question as to whether it was duly ratified. The courts have held that it was, but there are a number of people who believe otherwise, giving rise to Catman8's statement.

 

[Gator6x4]

So if my trans goes south 7 years after purchase can I replace it without paying a dealership to reprogram the trans from the wrecking yard to work in my tractor?

If my computer dies am I able to take one from a rolled tractor sitting in the local scrap yard and plug it in and go?

If the answer to any of these questions in no or probably not then they are just looking for a new way to make us pay even more for an already overpriced machine.

No all you have to do is invest 15-20 thousand dollars in the proper equipment, another 15-20 thousand in training and you can swap out and change any of the electronic equipment. Problem solved.

 

[paulfun9]

People wonder why I don't want all the computer controlled EYE CANDY that they put on new cars and trucks and now the fools will accept it on a tractor as well!

Not me I see no JD in my future!

 

[adventure bob]

paul, its not just eyecandy, and its not just JD. There's not a vehicle made for sale in a modern country that isn't electronically controlled and integrated. The way were getting upwards of 100hp/L and still getting 25MPG is electronics. No way to get that kind of efficiency mechanically. The only way your getting that kind of performance in a sub $40K car is certainly electronics. Go ahead and lament the days of the carbureted 350, but they aren't relevant. You cant go back no matter how much you don't like it. And if your so dead set against it and so anti JD, what tractor are you going to buy? Must not be anything made in the last 10 years. Old Iron will always need a home, I guess.

 

[rjmack]

well, I guess I've got to give the moderator credit for allowing this thread to continue in spite of the fact it may not be too popular among some of the advertisers.

nonetheless, I have yet to hear a valid argument in favor of the new layer of profit being designed into, in some cases, a near century old business model.

aftermarket parts have evolved everywhere there has been a demand, and there is a demand for aftermarket software and related components. It seems odd that the country that is known around the world for free market capitalism is heading down the road of newly emerging corporate socialism where it is suddenly against the law to design software components to replace OEM.

what next? a sensor designed to prevent you from replacing a wiper blade without paying a john deere tech to come and flash your tractor?

 

[OkieDave]

well, I guess I've got to give the moderator credit for allowing this thread to continue in spite of the fact it may not be too popular among some of the advertisers.

nonetheless, I have yet to hear a valid argument in favor of the new layer of profit being designed into, in some cases, a near century old business model.

aftermarket parts have evolved everywhere there has been a demand, and there is a demand for aftermarket software and related components. It seems odd that the country that is known around the world for free market capitalism is heading down the road of newly emerging corporate socialism where it is suddenly against the law to design software components to replace OEM.

what next? a sensor designed to prevent you from replacing a wiper blade without paying a john deere tech to come and flash your tractor?

In that vein, HP has been using microchipped ink cartridges for years to prevent the use of aftermarket or refilled cartridges, and Keurig tried the same trick with their recent models to keep you using Keurig-branded K-cups.

Brave new world, indeed.

 

[paulfun9]

paul, its not just eyecandy, and its not just JD. There's not a vehicle made for sale in a modern country that isn't electronically controlled and integrated. The way were getting upwards of 100hp/L and still getting 25MPG is electronics. No way to get that kind of efficiency mechanically. The only way your getting that kind of performance in a sub $40K car is certainly electronics. Go ahead and lament the days of the carbureted 350, but they aren't relevant. You cant go back no matter how much you don't like it. And if your so dead set against it and so anti JD, what tractor are you going to buy? Must not be anything made in the last 10 years. Old Iron will always need a home, I guess.

There goes the stupidity again! I was getting 30 MPG with carbs and making great power long before the factory was able to do it with computers!
I don't have a problem with engine management systems but simply find that most of the associated things are ill programmed and most of the things people think they need are more of a gimmick than they think.

Lets take the FOB that you get with many new cars/trucks for instance

How much does that system cost?
How much does the insurance break for having an immobilizer save you?

Add it up and get back to me on how many years you would have to keep you truck to pay for it just using the insurance break to cover the cost of a system that is utterly useless in deterring theft. Yep that's right useless!
The wife recently lost her fob and found the closest dealership to her wanted 180 dollars to reprogram a new FOB for her along with the cost of towing it in.
My cousin who lives close to the area was able to come out with some local kid who is known for taking joy rides in cars and he programmed her a new one right there in the parking lot for 20 bucks . What this tells me is that its not going to deter a thief but rather they are the only ones who can start your car without one so all that money I wasted paying for an immobilizer system and a fancy key Fob that I will never recover will only continue to be EYE candy.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Ah, but you're forgetting Article I, Section 2: "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers...."

I'm not forgetting anything. I'm just quoting the plain text of the Constitution. It doesn't say anything about who it could tax, or how. It simply conveys the power to collect taxes, as the courts have consistently and correctly ruled.

The 16th simply allowed Congress, for the sake of taxation, to ignore the equal application provisions of the Constitution. It's what allowed the graduated income tax (a horrible concept). Congress already had the power to tax income. (Which is really, really bad in my view.)


To say that "taxes are unconstitutional and illegal" is untrue and ignorant. That's the kind of ignorance that gives rise to the profoundly stupid, "Freeman" movement, which is about as American as communism.