6.0vs6.6, 6.2vs7.3, 6.4 Hemi

coobie

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did you look up the issue ? It's pretty well known these days.
Sadly, my son didn't research those issues when he bought the truck

YUP.
 

deserteagle71

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I personally do not like siamese bores myself. I am old enough to remember how that failed back in the 70's when GM utilized Siamese bores to punch out the otherwise outstanding 350 small block to attain a 400 small block from the factory. The 400 was pretty much an utter failure.
Sure glad the 400 in my 1976 GMC Terravan wasn't an utter failure. Drove that thing for 32-1/2 years! Unlike most though, my front main seal leaked, no problem with the rear main. No other engine problems...got rid of it when the body rotted out.
XR250 Terravan Cherry Valley 1986_editedr-1.jpg
 

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Not to hijack the hijack part of this thread.....but what defines an engine as modular?

Im not really a ford guy....so to be honest I have never heard the term "modular" used in describing an engine before.

I tried google....and there doesnt seem to be a consensus on what it actually means that I can find.

Some are saying it means a square engine (bore x stroke are the same). Like the ford 4.6 with a 90.2mm x 90mm. Or the 5.0 in the modular family with 92.2mm x 92.7mm .....but then there is the 5.4 with 90.2mm x 105.8mm so that makes this definition not make sense.

ANother possible definition was an engine based on the same block design, just different cylinders. Like a v6, v8, and v10 that all use the same design, pistons, rods, etc just tack on two extra cylinders for a V8 vs v6. Like fords V10 is the same as the 5.4 with just two cylinders added. But wouldnt that make the GM 4.3 and 5.7 modular? Or the dodge 3.9 and 5.2?

Some say that it is the ability to make various engines of similar design without having to re-tool a whole production line. But how would you NOT have to re-tool when "modular" engines can come in different bore sizes and different stroke lengths.

So.....just what does "modular" mean when talking about fords "modular" line of engines.
 
  
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deerefan

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Not to hijack the hijack part of this thread.....but what defines an engine as modular?

Im not really a ford guy....so to be honest I have never heard the term "modular" used in describing an engine before.

I tried google....and there doesnt seem to be a consensus on what it actually means that I can find.

Some are saying it means a square engine (bore x stroke are the same). Like the ford 4.6 with a 90.2mm x 90mm. Or the 5.0 in the modular family with 92.2mm x 92.7mm .....but then there is the 5.4 with 90.2mm x 105.8mm so that makes this definition not make sense.

ANother possible definition was an engine based on the same block design, just different cylinders. Like a v6, v8, and v10 that all use the same design, pistons, rods, etc just tack on two extra cylinders for a V8 vs v6. Like fords V10 is the same as the 5.4 with just two cylinders added. But wouldnt that make the GM 4.3 and 5.7 modular? Or the dodge 3.9 and 5.2?

Some say that it is the ability to make various engines of similar design without having to re-tool a whole production line. But how would you NOT have to re-tool when "modular" engines can come in different bore sizes and different stroke lengths.

So.....just what does "modular" mean when talking about fords "modular" line of engines.

Not hijacking at all….heck I want to know too
 

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It’s easy to find a problem with any engine. In this case I’m talking about the Chrysler Hemi. There are some people that have wiped cams, timing chain problems, bad lifters etc. My opinion is these problems are probably not worse than other makes, for example Ford has had cam phaser problems on some F150’s along with high oil consumption on some of the newer 5.0 engines. Also there is something known as the ”Hemi tick”. They can be noisy and while I hate to say it’s normal but it kind of is. Are people getting parts replaced when it’s just a little noisier than they are used to?

If you frequent any forum about a specific brand you will see the common problems. The reason I know about the F150 issues is because I own one. The trick is to learn to read between the lines and learn what problems are normal/bad luck and what are really major on going issues.
 

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modular just refers to its design for manufacturing on a line that can build a lot of different engines all at the same time. so they are designed with similar bolt spacing, pick points, cart attachments, etc.

design for manufacturing is not about having something that is similar necessarily, but something that will fit within the working envelope of all the machines, and that is easily adapted to by the assembly line. eg: a robot is easily able to torque the head bolts on a v8 and a v10, or the cart they ride on has the same clamp point on the block, etc.
 

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modular just refers to its design for manufacturing on a line that can build a lot of different engines all at the same time. so they are designed with similar bolt spacing, pick points, cart attachments, etc.

design for manufacturing is not about having something that is similar necessarily, but something that will fit within the working envelope of all the machines, and that is easily adapted to by the assembly line. eg: a robot is easily able to torque the head bolts on a v8 and a v10, or the cart they ride on has the same clamp point on the block, etc.
IF that is indeed true....

Then the pages of debate about the 6.2L ford being modular or not....how would one even know unless they work in the specific ford factory that makes the engine. And more important....why would anyone even care?
 

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Some say that it is the ability to make various engines of similar design without having to re-tool a whole production line. But how would you NOT have to re-tool when "modular" engines can come in different bore sizes and different stroke lengths.

So.....just what does "modular" mean when talking about fords "modular" line of engines.

It‘s this^

IF that is indeed true....

Then the pages of debate about the 6.2L ford being modular or not....how would one even know unless they work in the specific ford factory that makes the engine. And more important....why would anyone even care?

Part of the reason is because the modular engines from the mid1990’s-2010 were rumored to be probelm-free or problem-prone, based on where they were manufactured. For example, the Windsor plant blocks are “known” to be better quality than the Romeo plant.

The Modular engine was a family of single overhead cam engines, during a time when almost no other manufacturer was building this engine type, in any real numbers.

The Ford 4.6L has a pretty incredible reliability history. When in doubt, look at how many former police cars lived out their second lives as taxi’s.

On the other hand…
The Ford 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10 are essentially the same engine, but the 6.8L has two extra cylinders. For the first few years, these engines had a lot of trouble and they were in a lot of trucks. More trucks on the road and a higher failure rate (usually spark plug or other ignition-related) means more people sharing bad experiences. By the later 2000’s, these issues were mostly fixed, but the reputation stuck. Part of this was due to undersized oil channels which required frequent oil change or the channels would start to sludge up. As Ford was solving the issues on the first generation (1997-2003) of the 5.4L/6.8L, people were starting to see the issues come from the oil passages. In reality, the issues were largely fixed with the three valve version (2004-2017). Account for some growing pains, in the first couple of years of the second generation and it’s easier to just say, “don’t buy a Modular/Triton/5.4L/6.8L” than to acknowledge the engines from the late 2000’s to end of production were solid. Buying used, in these models, is scary due to them not being forgiving on preventative maintenance.

The 5.4L had a four valve DOHC (regular 5.4L was SOHC) version that was used in high performance applications and does not have a bad reputation. A lot of these were factory supercharged applications.

When people say they don’t like Modular engines, what I believe they really mean is they don’t like the first ten years of Ford 5.4L or 6.8L engines. As I said, the 4.6L is officially in the Modular family, but doesn’t get brought up, when people talk many failures.

The current Ford 5.0L is a Modular engine, officially. This has kept the Modular name in muddy water as the 5.0L’s have a history of excessive oil consumption and other issues. I believe we touched on those, earlier in the thread. This keeps the “don’t buy a Modular engine” idea alive.

The Ford 6.2L is not officially a Modular engine. It is not formally associated with any engine family. It shares designs from several prior Ford engines; essentially, it’s a blend of all their best technology, at the time, within the goals they set to meet.

I don’t care what you buy, but I do try to sort fact from fiction. It’s easy for people to discount the Ford 6.2L, thinking it’s just another Ford engine failure waiting to happen. After all, three out of four of the Modular engines are fairly well known to have problems, in general. Most people aren’t willing to separate out sub-models of those engines. Exacerbating the issue is the well know Ford diesel disasters (not as bad as the internet makes them sound, but still higher than their competitors), the 6.0L and the 6.4L. The Ford 6.7L came out in MY 2011, but even though it was better than Ford’s prior two diesels, the first generation had some extra issues. So, the Ford 6.2L gets lumped in with being a problem.

The reality is it’s the second most proven and reliable engine available in a HD pickup, built in the last ten years. The late 6.8L’s were good, but they were not available in the HD pickups, in the last decade. The 6.2L has many more years to prove to be as good as the venerable GM 6.0L, but if you took two trucks, one with a GM6.0L and the other with a Ford 6.2L (both built after 2012), the better truck would come down to how it was maintained over which engine was in it.

When I was looking for my dually, I wanted a gas engine. I had a few must-haves. In regard to engine I didn’t want a first year, so:
GM 6.0L from 2008, or later;
Ram 6.4L from 2015, or later;
Ford 6.8L from 2006, or later;
Ford 6.2L from 2012, or later;

Of those, my preference was to avoid the Ram 6.4L, unless it was very low mileage. The two Ford options and the GM option was a wash, other factors weighed more heavily.
 

kenmac

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It’s easy to find a problem with any engine. In this case I’m talking about the Chrysler Hemi. There are some people that have wiped cams, timing chain problems, bad lifters etc.
Not one issue with my 07 5.9 Cummins engine @ 135K. It has worked much harder than this 6.4 that's in my shop now.
Lifters go, which wipes the cam out. It is said due to poor oiling design.
Sad part is, dodge knows there's an issue, but fails to correct the problem.
This truck only has 80K on the meter and the engine is trashed. IMO, That's not good advertising for the dodge/ ram brand.
 
  
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deerefan

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It‘s this^



Part of the reason is because the modular engines from the mid1990’s-2010 were rumored to be probelm-free or problem-prone, based on where they were manufactured. For example, the Windsor plant blocks are “known” to be better quality than the Romeo plant.

The Modular engine was a family of single overhead cam engines, during a time when almost no other manufacturer was building this engine type, in any real numbers.

The Ford 4.6L has a pretty incredible reliability history. When in doubt, look at how many former police cars lived out their second lives as taxi’s.

On the other hand…
The Ford 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V10 are essentially the same engine, but the 6.8L has two extra cylinders. For the first few years, these engines had a lot of trouble and they were in a lot of trucks. More trucks on the road and a higher failure rate (usually spark plug or other ignition-related) means more people sharing bad experiences. By the later 2000’s, these issues were mostly fixed, but the reputation stuck. Part of this was due to undersized oil channels which required frequent oil change or the channels would start to sludge up. As Ford was solving the issues on the first generation (1997-2003) of the 5.4L/6.8L, people were starting to see the issues come from the oil passages. In reality, the issues were largely fixed with the three valve version (2004-2017). Account for some growing pains, in the first couple of years of the second generation and it’s easier to just say, “don’t buy a Modular/Triton/5.4L/6.8L” than to acknowledge the engines from the late 2000’s to end of production were solid. Buying used, in these models, is scary due to them not being forgiving on preventative maintenance.

The 5.4L had a four valve DOHC (regular 5.4L was SOHC) version that was used in high performance applications and does not have a bad reputation. A lot of these were factory supercharged applications.

When people say they don’t like Modular engines, what I believe they really mean is they don’t like the first ten years of Ford 5.4L or 6.8L engines. As I said, the 4.6L is officially in the Modular family, but doesn’t get brought up, when people talk many failures.

The current Ford 5.0L is a Modular engine, officially. This has kept the Modular name in muddy water as the 5.0L’s have a history of excessive oil consumption and other issues. I believe we touched on those, earlier in the thread. This keeps the “don’t buy a Modular engine” idea alive.

The Ford 6.2L is not officially a Modular engine. It is not formally associated with any engine family. It shares designs from several prior Ford engines; essentially, it’s a blend of all their best technology, at the time, within the goals they set to meet.

I don’t care what you buy, but I do try to sort fact from fiction. It’s easy for people to discount the Ford 6.2L, thinking it’s just another Ford engine failure waiting to happen. After all, three out of four of the Modular engines are fairly well known to have problems, in general. Most people aren’t willing to separate out sub-models of those engines. Exacerbating the issue is the well know Ford diesel disasters (not as bad as the internet makes them sound, but still higher than their competitors), the 6.0L and the 6.4L. The Ford 6.7L came out in MY 2011, but even though it was better than Ford’s prior two diesels, the first generation had some extra issues. So, the Ford 6.2L gets lumped in with being a problem.

The reality is it’s the second most proven and reliable engine available in a HD pickup, built in the last ten years. The late 6.8L’s were good, but they were not available in the HD pickups, in the last decade. The 6.2L has many more years to prove to be as good as the venerable GM 6.0L, but if you took two trucks, one with a GM6.0L and the other with a Ford 6.2L (both built after 2012), the better truck would come down to how it was maintained over which engine was in it.

When I was looking for my dually, I wanted a gas engine. I had a few must-haves. In regard to engine I didn’t want a first year, so:
GM 6.0L from 2008, or later;
Ram 6.4L from 2015, or later;
Ford 6.8L from 2006, or later;
Ford 6.2L from 2012, or later;

Of those, my preference was to avoid the Ram 6.4L, unless it was very low mileage. The two Ford options and the GM option was a wash, other factors weighed more heavily.

Great explanation. Thanks for contributing a lot of good info here.
 

coobie

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One would think with all of the gloom and doom of the 6.4 hemi engines tanking at 100,000 miles there would be more guys complaining on the Ram forums ? I guess I am missing it..My neighbor is one of the lead engineers at the Chrysler proving grounds here in Michigan I have asked him if there are all these issues he stated the 6.4 hemi is a great engine.
 
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nikerret

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One would think with all of the gloom and doom of the 6.4 hemi engines tanking at 100,000 miles there would be more guys complaining on the Ram forums ? I guess I am missing it..My neighbor is one of the lead engineers at the Chrysler proving grounds here in Michigan I have asked him if there are all these issues he stated the 6.4 hemi is a great engine.


This took just a moment to find:







I’ve also seen it, so to say. My understanding is the MDS components and method are the same, across the Ram/Dodge engines. For a short time, I was assigned a 2014 Ram 5.7L 1500, as a patrol vehicle. I used it for a couple of weeks, after I struck a deer, in my normal assigned vehicle. On my days off, I had to let another guy use the truck. When I went back to get it, for my next week of work, I was told I couldn’t use that Ram. At around 113,000 miles, it needed a new engine. I was told the guy who was going to use it, on my days off, took it and a few hours into shift noticed it was not running right. Supposedly, there were no codes, at that time. By the time he got it to the shop, it was done. When our Ram dealer was contacted, they said it was common and knew exactly what was needed, to do the swap. Within a couple of months, another one of our Ram 5.7L 1500’s started having issues. These were caught quick enough to replace just the failed parts, instead of the entire engine. It was a 2015 or 2016 and had just under 100k miles.


I agree the Ram 6.4L is a pretty good engine, but not once it gets “higher mileage”. If they were to develop it, without the MDS, I believe it would be a spectacular engine.
 

coobie

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This took just a moment to find:







I’ve also seen it, so to say. My understanding is the MDS components and method are the same, across the Ram/Dodge engines. For a short time, I was assigned a 2014 Ram 5.7L 1500, as a patrol vehicle. I used it for a couple of weeks, after I struck a deer, in my normal assigned vehicle. On my days off, I had to let another guy use the truck. When I went back to get it, for my next week of work, I was told I couldn’t use that Ram. At around 113,000 miles, it needed a new engine. I was told the guy who was going to use it, on my days off, took it and a few hours into shift noticed it was not running right. Supposedly, there were no codes, at that time. By the time he got it to the shop, it was done. When our Ram dealer was contacted, they said it was common and knew exactly what was needed, to do the swap. Within a couple of months, another one of our Ram 5.7L 1500’s started having issues. These were caught quick enough to replace just the failed parts, instead of the entire engine. It was a 2015 or 2016 and had just under 100k miles.


I agree the Ram 6.4L is a pretty good engine, but not once it gets “higher mileage”. If they were to develop it, without the MDS, I believe it would be a spectacular engine.
I would think the same would hold true for Toyota, ford and chevy engines.My point is every brand has there share of issues I had the Wonderfull. ford 5.4 triton engine and chevy 5.3 engine that drank oil like a drunken sailor.I owned both.
 
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nikerret

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I would think the same would hold true for Toyota, ford and chevy engines.My point is every brand has there share of issues I had the Wonderfull. ford 5.4 triton engine and chevy 5.3 engine that drank oil like a drunken sailor.I owned both.

I don’t recall saying ANY engine was 100%. If I did, I mis-typed. Almost all of them have growing pains. Even the new Ford 7.3L and the GM 6.6L have had reports of big problems, shortly after rollout. The Ford 6.2L had some issues, the first year. Generally, it’s a bad idea to buy a first year vehicle, regardless who it is from. The same can be said for transmissions or any other part. Until they get enough on the streets, no one knows what the real reliability or shortcomings will be.

A GM 5.3L that had excessive oil consumption. No surprise, there. Cylinder deactivation increases the chances of having issues. The reason I put a Range Technologies in, immediately. Did it help? No way of knowing, but I did what I could to hedge my bet against a known issue. It’s all any of us can do. In regard to GM light duty engines, the best time to buy one would be a mid-2020 to current model. GM didn’t include cylinder deactivation due to parts shortages. I believe the parts are still there, but not activated. It will be interesting to see if it’s the parts or the process that causes problems.

Our 2009 Ford F-250 5.4L patrol vehicle was solid. Yes, we had that as a patrol vehicle. Yes, it was stupid. On the other hand, my friend is currently shopping for a new 5.4L engine, since his original, from the early 2000’s is trashed.
 

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One would think with all of the gloom and doom of the 6.4 hemi engines tanking at 100,000 miles there would be more guys complaining on the Ram forums ? I guess I am missing it..My neighbor is one of the lead engineers at the Chrysler proving grounds here in Michigan I have asked him if there are all these issues he stated the 6.4 hemi is a great engine.
Yep, a great engine. Until it happens to you. I posted a link to a dodge forum where it's mentioned.

Engineers don't impress me . They have a piece of paper from a college. not real life experiences.
I have been in meetings with many engineers, Their answer when something doesn't work ? ''Well it works on paper, so it should work in real life situations'' ! LMBO !!!

My brother has a 5.7. it happened to his this one is a 6.4 and it's happened to him. If it hasn't happened to you, consider yourself lucky.
There are many U-tube videos about this issue. Some from long time Chrysler techs.

The truck in my shop has about 75K on the meter.
 

kenmac

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This took just a moment to find:







I’ve also seen it, so to say. My understanding is the MDS components and method are the same, across the Ram/Dodge engines. For a short time, I was assigned a 2014 Ram 5.7L 1500, as a patrol vehicle. I used it for a couple of weeks, after I struck a deer, in my normal assigned vehicle. On my days off, I had to let another guy use the truck. When I went back to get it, for my next week of work, I was told I couldn’t use that Ram. At around 113,000 miles, it needed a new engine. I was told the guy who was going to use it, on my days off, took it and a few hours into shift noticed it was not running right. Supposedly, there were no codes, at that time. By the time he got it to the shop, it was done. When our Ram dealer was contacted, they said it was common and knew exactly what was needed, to do the swap. Within a couple of months, another one of our Ram 5.7L 1500’s started having issues. These were caught quick enough to replace just the failed parts, instead of the entire engine. It was a 2015 or 2016 and had just under 100k miles.


I agree the Ram 6.4L is a pretty good engine, but not once it gets “higher mileage”. If they were to develop it, without the MDS, I believe it would be a spectacular engine.
Yeah, it isn't difficult at all to find out the issues with these engines.
Doesn't surprise me some Chrysler engineer would defend one of their screw ups.

There is hardly a way to find the problem in time to ''just replace the failed parts''. As soon as the tick starts, the lifter has destroyed it's self and started destroying the camshaft, which sends metal throughout the engine, bearings, oil pump, etc, .

In my previous life. I owned a drag car. When something goes bad wrong. I know where all that metal goes, and it don't get captured in the oil filter.
It doesn't take much metal to eat away soft bearing material.

Chrysler may just replace the failed parts, and hope to get by.
On this truck, we are replacing bearings, oil pump, cam, all lifters, and flushing the oil holes in the engine to remove any small metal shavings.
This is with about 75K miles on the clock
 

coobie

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Yep, a great engine. Until it happens to you. I posted a link to a dodge forum where it's mentioned.

Engineers don't impress me . They have a piece of paper from a college. not real life experiences.
I have been in meetings with many engineers, Their answer when something doesn't work ? ''Well it works on paper, so it should work in real life situations'' ! LMBO !!!

My brother has a 5.7. it happened to his this one is a 6.4 and it's happened to him. If it hasn't happened to you, consider yourself lucky.
There are many U-tube videos about this issue. Some from long time Chrysler techs.

The truck in my shop has about 75K on the meter
Yep, a great engine. Until it happens to you. I posted a link to a dodge forum where it's mentioned.

Engineers don't impress me . They have a piece of paper from a college. not real life experiences.
I have been in meetings with many engineers, Their answer when something doesn't work ? ''Well it works on paper, so it should work in real life situations'' ! LMBO !!!

My brother has a 5.7. it happened to his this one is a 6.4 and it's happened to him. If it hasn't happened to you, consider yourself lucky.
There are many U-tube videos about this issue. Some from long time Chrysler techs.

The truck in my shop has about 75K on the meter.
I am 100% agree with you on the engineer comment.dealt with many over the years (most bad some good) being a electric lineman.On the other hand my neighbor who is the engineer at Chrysler is MUCH different than your office type engineer he owns his own farm and tears engines down and rebuilds them splits tractors fixes them works and repairs his own equipment.He is NOT one to cover Chryslers a$$ by any means we have been close friends with him for 25 plus years.As I stated earlier all brands have there share of turds.:poop:
 
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When I was a kid we all had pos cars and trucks had a 383 road runner paid $500 bucks for went through a quart of oil a week . Same thing on a 73 blazer,78bronco,and 69 camaro . I used to add a quart of oil a week in just about all of them . I called them [self changers] you added so much new oil you never had to change it completly.

The total cost for those 4 cars was $ 3,500. My how times have changed. 🍻
 

nikerret

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There is hardly a way to find the problem in time to ''just replace the failed parts''. As soon as the tick starts, the lifter has destroyed it's self and started destroying the camshaft, which sends metal throughout the engine, bearings, oil pump, etc, .

I don’t know how they found the issues, with the second truck. I wasn’t involved with that one. They may have ripped it open, when the 2014 engine went, to see what it looked like or maybe they just got lucky?

We have a pretty capable shop. This is one of the Pete’s they are rebuilding, all in house:

48D08DE9-E478-4AE5-818F-182A5200A0F6.png


FBEA0863-34CC-47FE-9D3B-1EC76FD0399E.png
 

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Keep us in the loop on that one. Old truckers never die they just get their Peter bilt. Perfect for a glider kit. 🍻
 

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Here is my very initial input on the new Ford 7.3. I have had new style emissions diesels for the last 7 years - a 2014 Ram and then a 2019 Ford. The Ram spent over five months in the shop for emissions problems (and a couple of months more for other things) and was traded in on the Ford F350 DRW in January of 19. The Ford only failed when we hit two degrees and it did not want to start after cold soaking for a couple of days. Pretty flawless in my book - especially when following the Ram. The power from the 6.7 Powerstroke is very impressive and it would pass anything but a diesel pump (Got about 12 over it's life with me). I don't have or want a CDL so I am limited to 20K pounds on a trailer for farm use, so the insane towing power of the 350 was really overkill (but fun). About a dozen times a year I do carry more in the back of the truck than you can do with single rear tires, and really like the safety margin the duals give while towing not to mention the extra stability they give.

Earlier this year I started hearing good things about the new 7.3 gas engine/10 speed transmission combo (after they got through the initial teething problems) so after spending a year reading and hearing about expensive horror stories on higher mile Powerstrokes (I drive 25 to 30K miles a year) I started seriously thinking about switching. I ended up trading it in on a 21 DRW Lariat last Friday (I know trade in numbers are nuts right now, but I got 7K less than what I paid for the 2019 almost three years ago) and so far I really like it. The new tight engine is averaging 14 so better than the diesel, it is much quieter, and 800 pounds less over the front tires helps a lot with ride and handling. I am going to wait a couple of weeks before I tow with it but so far it feels like there should not be a problem.
 
  
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deerefan

deerefan

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Here is my very initial input on the new Ford 7.3. I have had new style emissions diesels for the last 7 years - a 2014 Ram and then a 2019 Ford. The Ram spent over five months in the shop for emissions problems (and a couple of months more for other things) and was traded in on the Ford F350 DRW in January of 19. The Ford only failed when we hit two degrees and it did not want to start after cold soaking for a couple of days. Pretty flawless in my book - especially when following the Ram. The power from the 6.7 Powerstroke is very impressive and it would pass anything but a diesel pump (Got about 12 over it's life with me). I don't have or want a CDL so I am limited to 20K pounds on a trailer for farm use, so the insane towing power of the 350 was really overkill (but fun). About a dozen times a year I do carry more in the back of the truck than you can do with single rear tires, and really like the safety margin the duals give while towing not to mention the extra stability they give.

Earlier this year I started hearing good things about the new 7.3 gas engine/10 speed transmission combo (after they got through the initial teething problems) so after spending a year reading and hearing about expensive horror stories on higher mile Powerstrokes (I drive 25 to 30K miles a year) I started seriously thinking about switching. I ended up trading it in on a 21 DRW Lariat last Friday (I know trade in numbers are nuts right now, but I got 7K less than what I paid for the 2019 almost three years ago) and so far I really like it. The new tight engine is averaging 14 so better than the diesel, it is much quieter, and 800 pounds less over the front tires helps a lot with ride and handling. I am going to wait a couple of weeks before I tow with it but so far it feels like there should not be a problem.

A dually would be overkill for us. The 7.3 reminds me of the 460, which were real work horses-at least the ones I experienced.
 

MickeyDBC

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I like the dually because the handful of times every year you need it you REALLY need it. Also I have had a blowout on a rear single that was loaded at the limit and it tried real hard to kill me. With the rear duals you have a little insurance until you can at least get stopped.
 

Paystar

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I used to haul new travel trailers from the factories to dealers years ago. I ran both single and dual rear wheel pickups. The duallies sure were a lot nicer to drive in the wind storms with a big trailer behind you. So much more stability.
 

nikerret

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I used to haul new travel trailers from the factories to dealers years ago. I ran both single and dual rear wheel pickups. The duallies sure were a lot nicer to drive in the wind storms with a big trailer behind you. So much more stability.

Were the trucks set up close enough to see other differences?

For example, if they had different engines or drive ratios, fuel mileage wouldn’t matter - too many variables. However, how long the tires lasted would likely still be relevant. Same for brake and Susie sign components, etc.
 

gtbensley

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GM 6.0 is a great motor, reliable but sucks fuel and not the most powerful. Has some issues with broken manifold bolts but so do most HD trucks. The 6l90 behind it is a pretty reliable trans.

Ford 6.2 is also a great motor, reliable, more power than a 6.0 but similar MPG. Also breaks manifold bolts or cracks them. Very reliable transmission that was designed for that motor.

Ram 6.4 Powerful, semi reliable for the short haul but plenty of very well documented issues with lifters and cams. The 6sp trans is mediocre at best but I hear the ZF8 speed is reliable.

GM 6.6 have not seen or read about many issues with these yet but its a new motor. DI may be a weak point if it has carbon issues but so far havent read of many, nor seen many come into the shop for repairs (but they are under warranty). The "new" 6spd trans is just a 6L90 with a few more clutch packs. Reliable for the most part but not perfect.

Ford 7.3 seems very stout and has great potential. Its new still as well. The 10sp trans is having some issues that they are working through but I imagine in a year or so it will be a bomb proof drivetrain.
 

Paystar

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Were the trucks set up close enough to see other differences?

For example, if they had different engines or drive ratios, fuel mileage wouldn’t matter - too many variables. However, how long the tires lasted would likely still be relevant. Same for brake and Susie sign components, etc.
Lot of years ago for my memory, LOL. Was in 2007. I can't really be too specific. I only did that for a year or two and then went back into trucking.
I was averaging 3417 miles a week. And I did have to replace the factory tires in that time. Had good luck with Continentals that came on the one Ford. They were better than the Firestones my tire dealer talked me into buying as far as wear and winter traction.
Only thing I can say for sure was the Ram dually ate tires every 50,000 because that was the point the front ends fell out of them, LOL And as I said, the duallies were far more stable in the wind storms on the highways.
And the single rears were a bit better on fuel, but not enough that I'd give up the stability of a dually if I had to do it again.
 

dodge man

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So I will add a little bit to the Hemi problem. Some of this is fact and some opinion. I have owned several 5.7 Hemi engines in trucks and own a Challenger and frequent Challenger forums. They do appear to have a lifter problem. It seems to happen on the 6.4 and the 5.7. Someone with a manual transmission car, no MDS, had a lifter fail. These generally happen over 100,000 mile.

There is another thread going where someone lunched his Ford gas engine at 80,000 miles. Are the Hemi engines prone to failure more or less than other engines? I would say no.
 
  
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deerefan

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So I will add a little bit to the Hemi problem. Some of this is fact and some opinion. I have owned several 5.7 Hemi engines in trucks and own a Challenger and frequent Challenger forums. They do appear to have a lifter problem. It seems to happen on the 6.4 and the 5.7. Someone with a manual transmission car, no MDS, had a lifter fail. These generally happen over 100,000 mile.

There is another thread going where someone lunched his Ford gas engine at 80,000 miles. Are the Hemi engines prone to failure more or less than other engines? I would say no.

I would agree…a basic google search reveals problems with all 3 unfortunately.
 

deserteagle71

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I like the dually because the handful of times every year you need it you REALLY need it. Also I have had a blowout on a rear single that was loaded at the limit and it tried real hard to kill me. With the rear duals you have a little insurance until you can at least get stopped.
^This.

I've had a cabover camper for years. Those things are tall (close to 13' when on the truck) and very heavy. Quite the experience when a rear tire blows hauling one of those and that corner of the truck drops 6" while at speed. The main reason I went to a dually.
 

MickeyDBC

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I hauled my 30' dual tandem PJ gooseneck trailer out to the ranch over the weekend with a dumpster on it so I could clean up some of the junk the concrete guys left behind last year. When I loaded it back on the trailer it made the 7320 grunt a little so I figure it was at least 3500 pounds and with some of the other stuff on the trailer it was in the 12,000 pound range with a lot on the ball. Truck pulled fine, averaged about 9mpg (the 6.7 diesel would have done about 10) so I am not too unhappy with that. The route I take is pretty twisty and hilly for Texas, and the dually kept the trailer in check very will. So far very happy with my move away from diesel.
 
  
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deerefan

deerefan

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I still have not found a truck. However, I did look at this one. 2wd, 3.55 gears 🤷‍♂️
IMG_0865.JPG
IMG_0866.JPG

Giving it some consideration, not sure yet
 

coobie

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In todays rough times if I was looking I would BUY. (y)
 

Hay Dude

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Heres my opinion (and yo know what they say about opinions)
Its probably a good deal for Deerefan since he knows he doesnt need 4WD and knows his needs. I think the place where he may suffer is on resale vale. It wont appeal to a very wide audience at the time he sells it because of 2WD.
However, he might not care about that. I always consider resale value because I tend to be a “what if…..” thinker.
Although I did buy my Ram new in 2020 and love it, I’m usually the type of buyer to look for a lightly used piece, thats more loaded that has a significant amount of depreciation reflected in the selling price.
For example, I’d rather have a 2020 with 4WD than a 2021/22 with 2WD.

But I realize in these times of nearly hyperinflation (highest in 40 years) and shortages (look at truck lots and their prices for see trucks), Deerefan isnt exactly buying a truck in ideal times.
I cold sell my 2020 Ram for almost what I paid for it 2 years old with 24,000 miles on it.
 
  
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deerefan

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Heres my opinion (and yo know what they say about opinions)
Its probably a good deal for Deerefan since he knows he doesnt need 4WD and knows his needs. I think the place where he may suffer is on resale vale. It wont appeal to a very wide audience at the time he sells it because of 2WD.
However, he might not care about that. I always consider resale value because I tend to be a “what if…..” thinker.
Although I did buy my Ram new in 2020 and love it, I’m usually the type of buyer to look for a lightly used piece, thats more loaded that has a significant amount of depreciation reflected in the selling price.
For example, I’d rather have a 2020 with 4WD than a 2021/22 with 2WD.

But I realize in these times of nearly hyperinflation (highest in 40 years) and shortages (look at truck lots and their prices for see trucks), Deerefan isnt exactly buying a truck in ideal times.
I cold sell my 2020 Ram for almost what I paid for it 2 years old with 24,000 miles on it.

Thanks. I don’t know if truck prices will come back down or not. I have been battling the 4wd/2wd war since I started looking almost a year ago. I have owned both. I have needed 4wd exactly twice in all those years. Is it nice to have? Yep. Is it worth all the extra money? No. We keep trucks like this at least 10-15 years. Resale would be low by then any way. I am seeing used trucks with 50-60k miles only a couple grand less than this one equipped the same. It is a crazy market.
 

Tractorable

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I’ve been hanging out on the Ford Tremor forum. There’s a dealership in Des Moines, Iowa , Granger Ford, selling special order Tremors for 2% below invoice. Might want to check with them to see if that deal applies to regular Super Duty’s and if so, place an order, fly to Des Moines, and drive it back to Louisiana.
 

spitter

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4wd is like insurance ,snowblowers, and generators . Expensive until you need it. Then it's priceless. I wasn't jumping on that 2 vs 4wd debate I was just saying that that's a ridiculous price for a 2wd base model truck. 🍻
 
  
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deerefan

deerefan

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4wd is like insurance ,snowblowers, and generators . Expensive until you need it. Then it's priceless. I wasn't jumping on that 2 vs 4wd debate I was just saying that that's a ridiculous price for a 2wd base model truck.

Agreed. While we do not need bells and whistles for our operation, I can remember a truck equipped like this selling for 10-15k less not long ago. We are not in desperate need, but would like to have something by summer.
 

MechanicalGuy

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I just bought a 2022 7.3l 10 speed DRW CC xl model F350 4x4 for a little less than 51k. 2wd is useless for my needs. There are dealers that are 2-4% under invoice. My dealer was $2k under msrp.

I had to wait 4 months for delivery.

That 2wd for 49k isn't at all desirable to me.
 
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crashz

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I know my rigs are getting dated, but just some data on the 6.0L GM trucks:

I have a 2012 Silverado 2500HD Xcab 4x4 with 3.73 gears. 92K miles. ROCK solid reliable. It fact, I just replaced the brake pads for the first time because it seems weird to go 10 years or nearly 100k on factory brakes. They were still 30%. No repairs, but I over-maintain. Beautiful truck and it rides and drives great.

But the 6.0L is challenged in this truck/configuration. Empty she weighs 7700 lbs. I recently pulled an empty trailer to OH and a UTV back and averaged about 4mpg. That's the worst I've ever seen. Best highway driving (easy on the gas, speed limit, bed cover, etc.) was 14mpg under ideal conditions and premium fuel.

If you find a 6.0L that you are interested in, I would make sure it had 4.10 gears. It will tow better and probably get a bit better fuel mileage.
 
  
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deerefan

deerefan

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I know my rigs are getting dated, but just some data on the 6.0L GM trucks:

I have a 2012 Silverado 2500HD Xcab 4x4 with 3.73 gears. 92K miles. ROCK solid reliable. It fact, I just replaced the brake pads for the first time because it seems weird to go 10 years or nearly 100k on factory brakes. They were still 30%. No repairs, but I over-maintain. Beautiful truck and it rides and drives great.

But the 6.0L is challenged in this truck/configuration. Empty she weighs 7700 lbs. I recently pulled an empty trailer to OH and a UTV back and averaged about 4mpg. That's the worst I've ever seen. Best highway driving (easy on the gas, speed limit, bed cover, etc.) was 14mpg under ideal conditions and premium fuel.

If you find a 6.0L that you are interested in, I would make sure it had 4.10 gears. It will tow better and probably get a bit better fuel mileage.

Still looking. I agree and we plan to do a decent amount of towing.
 
 
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