7018 vs 6013 vs everything else

[dieselcrawler]

Gonna be doing some repairs to some Brush Crusher grapples at work today. Part of which will include welding on some extra gusseting. I have always used 6013 since I was a kid learning to weld, for clean materials and nice finish. However, there is a full can of 7018 there and no so much of 6013, so I am gonna play with it for the experiance. The few times I have tried to use 7018, it seems hard to strike an arc with and just not nearly as easy to use as 6013. Will report back later... and will post a few pix.

Also have a lot of 6010...


Feedback and advice welcome...

 

[Shield Arc]

I think I would use a hot glue gun before using 6013!
Couple threads for you to look over.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/211678-6013-break-test.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/211904-7018-break-test.html

 

[LD1]

I won't go as far as shield arc. I have welded many things successfully over the years with 6013. It just depends on the welder you have (ac or DC), and your skill.

The notion that 7018 is the best rod every time is silly. Some of the best qualities of 7018 are nil when you have an old box that hasn't been kept dry and preheated. For a home buzz box ac welder, 7018 is one of the last I would reccomend. 6011 or 7014 would be a better choice. But still, a good weld with 6013 is likely far better than a bad weld with 7018.

But if you are looking for something strong AND easy to run like 6013, some of the stainless alloys are great. Harris super-missel, certanium, eutectic, are a few I have. Don't here a lot about them from the pros, cause they aren't used structurally. I read somewhere its cause mfgs of those rods want to keep the alloy and flux a secret and for the aws to certify them, they have to know. Not sure if there is any truth to that?? And they are expensive.

 

[Gary Fowler]

LD1 is right to an extent, a good weld is always better than a bad one. However there is no need to put in expensive alloy rods for welding on carbon steel. The steel is weaker than most welding rods ie A36 mild steel, the grade used in all tractor implements has 36,000 PSI tensile strength whereas all welding rods have a minimum of 60,000 so the rod even with a few flaws in it is going to be stronger than the steel. What isn't accounted for in many of the rods like 7014,7024,6011,6013 is ductility. They just don't bend much prior to breaking some of them worse than others. I prefer to use 6010 for root passes to fill any gaps even on fillet welds then fill and cap with the 7018 which has better tensile and much better ductility. Even a not to well cared for 7018 can be dried by just sticking the rod and allowing it to heat up and watch for the puff of steam to come off, then break it loose and begin welding. One of my first purchases after getting my welding machine was to buy a large Phoenix Dry Rod box which stays hot 24/7 @350F with my 7018. Mine is a 300# one but 10# and 50# ones are available at reasonable cost new (Craigslist has had them used for less than $100 many times)

Just remember, The easiest thing to do is rarely the right thing to do.

 

[Shield Arc]

I use to run a lot of Super-Missile rod repairing cast steel pile driving equipment. 312 Stainless steel rod is basically the same thing, but cheaper. This piece of equipment that the red arrow is pointing to, takes a beating. We have driving pile all day, and I would stay late into the night repairing these.

 

[EMB5530]

I have always heard that 6013 is for thin steels as it does not burn through the material easily, which means it would be best not to think it would penetrate deeply in thicker steel. But if you were welding something with 6011 and wanted a clean looking finish I would think 6013 over the top would be fine if it was what you had and didn't have 7018 lying around.

What do ya'll think?

 

[R W]

I think I would use a hot glue gun before using 6013!

Have not had any problems with 6013 welds on mild steel.
7016 or 7018 are a better way to go on bulldozer, farm machinery repairs, etc, providing you have a good DC welder to run them.

 

[Shield Arc]

7016 or 7018 are a better way to go on bulldozer, farm machinery repairs, etc, providing you have a good DC welder to run them.

I don't have a lot of experience with 7018, but I gave it the ol college try with an AC buzz box.

 

[dieselcrawler]

This is what I had to start with... as you can see by the burn marks I had already started straightening the forks on the one nearest the camera.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Mock up... fitting parts to be added.





In progress...




These are the 1/4"x2" flat stock and end bars of 1/2"x3" (old brush hog blade- we recycle!) that were added.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Ended up tacking everything with 6013 and burning it all in good with about 20-25 1/8" 7018 rods at 150a setting on the ol lincoln a/c buzz box. Aside from the difficulty striking an arc and slag removal it went well and I feel much better about using 7018 now. This is one of the forks welded to the old brush hog blade.



Finished... boss is happy!

 

[Glocker]

7018 comes in AC rod, (7018AC) the difference is the flux coating.It runs excellent on ac. Don't let the guy at the supply house tell you it's all the same,it's not. Once you use it you will love it.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I dont recall if the rod I used had the AC stamped on it or not... how would a DC rod act when used on an AC mechine?

 

[Shield Arc]

how would a DC rod act when used on an AC mechine?

The pictures I posted in post #8 are DC 7018 rod run on an AC buzz box. What I found running DC 7018 on an AC buss box is it doesn't wet out like on DC.
These are DC 7018 run on a DC welder.

 

[dieselcrawler]

The pictures I posted in post #8 are DC 7018 rod run on an AC buzz box. What I found running DC 7018 on an AC buss box is it doesn't wet out like on DC.
These are DC 7018 run on a DC welder.

Fine lookin welds... I think you've had a bit more practice than myself. What does your term "wet out" mean?

Come to think if it... the welder I was using at work might have had a DC setting. I will look on monday... and check the rods I used... and perhaps mess with the settings and try a few things.

Really appreciate the response from all of you... feel free to add any further thoughts if you like.

 

[Shield Arc]

What does your term "wet out" mean?

First picture is 7018 run on a AC buzz box. The second pictures is 7018 run on a DC welding machine.
See how the DC weld is much smoother, and more flowing lines to the weld? See how the AC weld is choppy, raged? That what I mean by wetting out.

 

[lilranch2001]

I had lot of 7018 experience in my younger construction days
The owner of the company had disdain for all of the other rods, so he expected all of his welders to use 7018.

As long as you had fresh rod, and a good DC machine (my preference is an old Tombstone Lincoln), you could do some really nice welds, and strong ones as well.
I had many a plant engineer give me praise for my welds.
I never had much luck with anything other than 1/8 inch, ( once again that is all the owner of the company would buy) but his son became a certified nuke welder for a RI nuke plant that was being built in the 80's and he could do the prettiest vertical ups with 3/16" that I had ever seen

Whenever I do a project, it is still my go to rod.

It is a harder rod to learn, but in my humble opinion, one of the prettier finished welds out there

 

[Arc weld]

I don't necessarily agree that a good 6013 weld is better than a bad 7018 weld. It would depend on how bad the 7018 weld was. 7018 is designed for dynamic loading and 6013 is designed for static loading. Why is it so hard for people to understand that for 99% of the jobs on this forum, there is no need for 7018 to be in a rod oven!ullinghair:

However, the best way to tell the difference between 6013 and 7018, assuming both are decent, is that no one will ever question why you used 7018 instead of 6013! With MIG welders being so popular for thin sheet metal, there isn't a whole lot of use for 6013 anymore.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Well if a 6013 can be used, a 7014 would work just as well.imho.

 

[LD1]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that for 99% of the jobs on this forum, there is no need for 7018 to be in a rod oven!ullinghair:

I would argue that for 99% of the jobs on this forum, there is no need for 7018 rod.

Most everything I have done at home, with the stick, certainly isnt 7018. Cause on the old craftsman AC tapped machine, 7018 dont run at all. Flat out wont do it. But that machine has ran several hundred pounds of 6013, 7014.

We arent talking 1" thick plates here. Most of the stuff people on this forum (myself included) are dealing with is 1/8" - 1/4" stock. 6013 and 7014 are more than capable of good penetration on this stuff.

This trailer is about 20 years old now, and dont have a single weld on it that ISNT 6013. And has hauled MANY MANY loads of wood.


6013 is fine if someone knows how to use it. It might not be the best, or the strongest, but is still good rod.

If you need to hang a 10 pound sign on the wall, and have the choice of using 1/4" x 3/4" fastners or 1/2" x 2" fastners, what would you do?? Sure the 1/2 x 2" fastners would penetrate more and hold more. But given that the sign will bend and tear and crumple long before the 1/4 x 3/4 fastners fail, is it really any better??

I have said my piece, and I will leave this thread alone now. I am by no means a "pro" weldor. I just get tired of hearing 7018, 7018, 7018 all of the time. yes, it is an excellent rod, and very strong. (not pertaining to this thread).....but a newbie welder that wants to weld a bracket or hook to something to hang a tool or whatnot, certainly dont need 7018. And given the difficulty of running 7018 on AC, for a newbie, look into other rods.