77 Satoh Beaver S370D wont start, low compression

[Ilikeurtractor]

When you recheck the compression, move the fuel lever to off (forward) and crack open the fuel line nuts on the injector for the cylinder you're testing. This will ensure no fuel is getting injected in the cylinder to throw your readings high as sufficient compression may cause it to burn or vaporize and an associated increase in pressure. The highest compression value I ever got on any of my tractors was around 400 psig. The manual calls out new as 455 psig @ 2800 rpm. Good luck with getting to 2800 rpm and checking the compression!

 

[thepumpguysc]

THAT IS a weird spec??
How in the heck are you gonna reach 2800rpm?? Now I could see a mis-print & its 280 but even THATS hi..
I think cranking fuel output check for the injection pump, on the teststand is 200??

Thanks for pointing the fuel shut-off on the compr. check. ILIKE..
Sometimes we forget the "normal to us" things.. cuz I TOTALLY forgot that part.. & your right again, THATS PROB. where the extra PSI readings are coming from !!!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Im off today, but theres a lot of stuff going on. Son and I have to go to preschool, but Ill check compression correctly after I get home. I tried starting before we left to get some pictures and video.
Heres the short starting video, should be able to see the smoke, but its more white than before.

Heres the pictures of fuel system and ignition rewiring. The wires are thicker than what was there and I didnt have a variety of wire colors, but I did have a variety of electrical tape to wrap them in.
New ignition wiring landed to alternator, and starter wrapped in red, glow plugs yellow, starter go switch is yellow with black stripes.

Glow plug jumpers wrapped in kevlar heat sheild electric tape and the fuel injector jumper disconnected.

Fuel filter and new hoses from the tank

Battery dated 9/15, topped off with distilled water and connected to charger/jumper.

Glow plug indicator, you can see the glowing red faintly, this is after 30s in daylight. Its easier to see in person, but thats the best shot I got with my hand holding the key back.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Could only post 1 video per post...
Heres the starting video before all the fuel system replacing yesterday.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

You'll definitely need to get your cranking speeds up. It "sounds" to me like your compression is ok, but I'm going out on a limb here and making the assumption the starting system is in decent shape. The G154 I re-ringed would spin extremely freely before the re-ring. I wish I would have captured it in a video. I would say it is getting enough fuel but black smoke would be welcome at this point. Make sure you have a good battery like you already mentioned and verify your battery cables are correctly sized (I recommend nothing smaller than 2 gauge) and the terminals are clean. The starter may need to be replaced, but first check the previous items. Gotta love that wiring! I don't think most people appreciate a tractor that is mechanically and electrically correct. Old school diesels do not rely on any electrical once they're running but it sure helps in getting them started as you are finding out The problem is these things are generally down-played upon first inspection, if even noticed at all. What is usually seen is the cosmetic condition of the sheet metal and paint. Therefore if the tractor looks bad in these regards, then the assumption is the rest of it is in disrepair too which is generally a good assumption but not always the case. Anybody who had to redo wiring and/or make a lot of mechanical repairs will appreciate finding a tractor with the stock wiring intact and the fact the machine has not been butchered up mechanically. See fxr55's posts in the Iseki section as it is a classic, worst-case scenario. Yes, paint and cosmetics take a lot of effort to do correctly and can cost a lot too. One of the first things you'll want to check once it's running is the charging state of the alternator. Hopefully it will just work for you but if not keep us posted and we can help out.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Id say the battery needs to be replaced, Im missing the battery clamp on mine and its a liitle wider than stock because the hood has trouble cosing around it. Anyone know the correct battery part number or at least the dimensions? I was also thinking injectors could be taken out and soaked in something for a while, but what? Whats the proper way to deep clean an injector, or is it a rebuild only type of deal? Battery cables are at least a 4 gauge, but looks like 2 gauge. They look a little raggity, so they might need an update to some bigger stuff at a later date. Id like to install an onboard inverter, as a cheap alternative to a generator. I know the cranking speeds are low, and I think its mostly the battery it dies quickly even plugged in when I crank for 2 or 3 times. Maybe Ill pull my optima from my ford escape and try that out. The escape is one of the broke down cars, but I've got it on a trickle charger.

FYI Every connection I did on the electrical system was dipped in dielectric grease, long term it helps prevent corrosion and it gives much better contact and connection for previously rusted electrical components. A can is cheap and it last longer than the aerosol in there so mine I peeled back the bottom of the can and now its a little dipper tube with razor sharp edges, lol.

 

[HomesteadOC]

I gotta hand it to ya Home.. your keepin at it.. Your not makin any progress but your keepin at it.. LOL..
And THANK YOU for keeping us up to date on your "doings".. MOST people come on here, ask a bazillion questions, get a bazillion answers & then disappear..
I wish you could snap/post a picture of your fuel system set-up.. w/ a pic. I might be able to tell you how to hack into the fuel system.
Keep at it.. ALL those things that your fixing now.. HAD TO BE DONE sooner than later..
Glow plugs DEFINATLY had to be replaced & the key switch "needed" to be corrected..
NOW, if we could just get confirmation on those dam compression #'s.. lol.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really want this thing to get going. Maybe the reason everyone else disappears is that they fix it really fast and I just have no clue what Im doing, lol? The biggest reason I want this going asap is that my mother and grandmother in law think Im a moron for wasting $2500 on a non running tractor. It doesnt help that the MIL lives next door and the GIL lives caddy corner behind the MIL.

 

[Kernopelli]

I have never owned a 2 cylinder Mitsubishi but have had several 3 & 4 cylinder models, the 3 cylinder models are very hard to start with slow cranking speeds, even at moderately warm temps. The video indicates your's are very slow. You may just find that a new battery will correct your no start issue. Pay no attention to the inlaws, the day will come when they want you to use your awesome little 370 to do some work for them..... "Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance". Virgil

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Id like to install an onboard inverter, as a cheap alternative to a generator. I know the cranking speeds are low, and I think its mostly the battery it dies quickly even plugged in when I crank for 2 or 3 times. Maybe Ill pull my optima from my ford escape and try that out. The escape is one of the broke down cars, but I've got it on a trickle charger.

The idea of using an inverter in place of a generator is actually a great idea. I have a 2kW inverter and has run everything I've thrown at it while running off the tractor.

A jump start should get you going. Same rules apply for jumper cables as the battery cables - 2 gauge or better. If you are careful you can clamp directly to the + starter lug bypassing the + battery terminal. Same strategy for ground. No use forcing more through what could already be taxed battery leads.

 

[HomesteadOC]

I have never owned a 2 cylinder Mitsubishi but have had several 3 & 4 cylinder models, the 3 cylinder models are very hard to start with slow cranking speeds, even at moderately warm temps. The video indicates your's are very slow. You may just find that a new battery will correct your no start issue. Pay no attention to the inlaws, the day will come when they want you to use your awesome little 370 to do some work for them..... "Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance". Virgil

Shes already had me use the craftsman gt5000 to haul some logs for her, if I had the bucket it wouldve been easier.

I retested compression the correct way with injectors unhooked and throttle all the way forward, i did notice fuel coming out of the injector lines anyway. I tried 2 times with the other plug in and other plug out and got the same readings of 300psi #1 and 355psi #2. A lot less than 455 and 550 as before, but still more than my baseline of 275 and 300. The glow plugs get super hot, but in sunlight I cant tell if theyre white or red or whatecer. They smoke all the diesel off and the top is too hot to hold against the negative side of the battery. I went to swap the optima in and realized my trickle charger was no longer plugged in so that battery is dead too. I put that one on a charge and will take the other one to get it checked at an autoparts store and will probably end up buying a new one. I took measurements for the correct battery at 9.5L, 5W, 7T. Length and width are set by the tray, but the height is variable and could probably fit up to an 8.5-9” tall battery there.

 

[Kernopelli]

Hang in there, you're getting closer. Don't know if you have seen this but these guys are great and super helpful/ good to deal with. Valley Power some good S370 parts diagrams and general info on the site!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Hang in there, you're getting closer. Don't know if you have seen this but these guys are great and super helpful/ good to deal with. Valley Power some good S370 parts diagrams and general info on the site!

Ive talkedto themand bought a manual from them, really nice and really knowledgeable. He was saying that I would probably need a re-ring with the 275/300psi numbers I gave him. Before I tried the ATF in the cylinders. Im still hoping that it wont come to that. My optima battery is pretty dead as well, but still better than the one that was in the tractor. My cranking is a whole lot faster, but its not holding a charge without the jumper/charger, and its still not starting. Ill need a new battery anyway so Ill just go get one.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I just watched the video.. no way in he** is that gonna start w/ that battery..
Once you get a new battery in there..
Loosen the lines AT THE INJECTORS, spin the engine & watch the fuel squirt out.. make sure theres NO AIR & only fuel..
Once you get fuel, tighten them up.. it should fire off..
I didn't like the statement>> you were still getting fuel w/ the lever in the shut off position.. but we'll get to THAT, once you get it spinning properly.

 

[HomesteadOC]

The tractor takes a group 51 battery, and no one local had one in stock. The fastest cheapest option was $75 for a 675 amp battery from lowes picked up at the store 3/28. Not a bad deal, but its going to take forever. I cant get the car close enough to the tractor to jump this thing. Both batteries Ive used seem too weak to do anything for this. Maybe Ill pull the starter off and take it to get tested just to get that out of the way while Im waiting for the new battery. Might as well take the alternator in for a check while Im at it. Since I cant get the car close enough to jump, Ill pull that battery and see what it can do. If that one is having trouble then its got to be the starter. If it cranks all day like it should then Ill be happy I already ordered the battery.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I'm not familiar w/ the tractor itself but I'm well versed in diesel engines & fuel systems..
is it possible this engine has a "decompression lever"on it??
IF IT DOES, the mechanism will be mounted somewhere on & inside the valve cover..
The sound your hearing when your trying to start it is.. the low power of the starter, no able to overcome/spin thru, the compression stroke of the engine..
it spins fast, then slow, then fast again..
so either your not supplying enough "juice" to the starter or the starter itself is weak..
I'll go back thru the engine/valve cover pics & see if I notice any linkage.. for a decomp..

 

[thepumpguysc]

1 more thing..
..disconnect the air intake hoses/filter from the engine..
Just to give it a breath of fresh air.. so it isn't fighting to breath thru the filter & hoses..
& watch-out for loose rags laying around BEFORE you go cranking on the starter..!!!
THEY WILL get sucked into the intake.. [ask me how I know, lol}

 

[HomesteadOC]

Pulled the battery out of the car and got some really good cranks, but still doesnt start. Im not sure theres anything else to do before I re-ring. Did not see any decompression lever, but maybe I dont really know what Im looking for. Heres the video.

Is there a way to tell what kind of rings I need (keystone vs square) before I pull everything apart? What gaskets will I need, seems like valve cover, head, and oil pan? Should I replace rod bearings while Im in there? Id like to order everything while Im tearing it down, but I wont be able to put eyes on the rings before saturday. I have a parts washer and probably some ring tools at work that Im going to use.

 

[HomesteadOC]

Heres an attempt with no air filter connected.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

So you're sure the glow plugs are energized while you're cranking, correct? Check with multi-meter while cranking that they have 10VDC or so - this should be easy with the four hands we all have - lol. Hopefully you have alligator clips for this. If you have the 10VDC, then this would confirm your compression is too low. Ideally you would measure amps to the glow plugs and not voltage but most people don't have DC ammeters yet but I would recommend getting one. Amps would be around 20 (10A for each plug). I would like to see more black smoke and the glow plugs should be making that happen somewhat independent of compression. The last thing you can try is this: start out with the fuel lever about 1/3 of the way to full fuel position (full is to the rear to confirm). Start cranking. After cranking for about 5-6 seconds begin to move the lever SLOWLY towards full fuel position. You should notice a change in the engine cranking speed. It should begin to go a little faster and will reach a point when it will go slower again. When it begins to drop in speed you are in an overfueling condition for the amount of compression you have. Back the lever off until the engine speeds up again and keep cranking. It MIGHT start after 15-20 seconds. This is somewhat of a silly exercise because we know your compression is low up to this point (unless the glow plugs are not working) but I've gotten engines to start this way. It is not good for your starter. Even if it runs it likely will need a re-ring/bore immediately. NEVER USE ETHER to start these engines unless you know your glow plugs are disabled and cold!

 

[HomesteadOC]

Im getting voltage during cranking, and preheating. I was doing the feathering of the throttle to hit the sweet spot but it still wouldn't start once there. I just drained the oil and pulled the valve cover, im going to pull the head and see what I can see. I noticed 2 of my valves are a little loose at where they happened to land, book say to check at TDC, but Im not sure how to get it there yet.