861 diesel problems

[MitchellB]

Made a lot of visual progress today. I RTV gasket sealed in my rear main bearing block clamp & V-seals; got the oil pan, front cover and pulley installed with new gaskets; took the engine off the stand and hung it on the my cherry picker at an angle so I could install my flywheel (with new bearing) and new clutch. That was a bear to do alone. Suckers are heavy. Then I thought before the sun goes down, why not try to put the engine to the transmission. Well that was definitely a job I recommend having help with, but after 1/2 dozen alignment bars, 2 C-clamps and a lot of prayers and cursing, it finally slipped it on by myself and I even rolled the axle back bolted in place. All the nuts are still loose, but at least the engine is back in. Now I just got to remember where that pile of parts in the corner go!

 

[Soundguy]

That's the fun part, making all the parts you put in the bucket go back out of the bucket!

 

[MitchellB]

I got the engine block bolts to the transmission housing tightened and the 4 bolts that hold the axle to the front tightened. Reattached my radius rod and tie-rod to the axle

Removed my cherry picker, jack and jack stands underneath.

Torqued the head down to 100 lbs. and put one bolt in to hold the starter in place. Not sure why I only had 1 bolt stored with the starter when it takes 3, but I guess I'll find them later.

installed my new temp gauge sensor, but had problems getting my oil pressure line to screw into the brass elbow fitting on the engine block. It was getting cold and darkish, so I called it a day.

 

[Soundguy]

that oil line connection.... ford engineers must have been laughing pretty good on that one.

 

[MitchellB]

Messed some more with that dang oil pressure line fitting this morning and never could get the sucker to start. I finally got desperate and cut the end off so I could pull off the steel male end so I could clean up the threads with a thread file. After that if finally started (or maybe cut new threads) into the brass elbow on the block. At any rate, it will fit now. Just got to reflare my tubing. Well, wouldn't know it, my flaring tool only goes as small as 3/16" and evidently this frigging oil pressure line is 1/8" steel. Now I got to either buy a new line or buy/borrow a smaller flaring tool.

So, I started another project. The battery on the riding mower would not hold a charge anymore, even with the battery charger hooked to it, it will not crank the mower. So I got the bright idea from a few links online about adding Epson Salt (dissolved in water) to the battery will sometimes rejuvenate them. I figured the battery is toast anyway, but I don't want to replace it until next spring and I need to mow the yard today. Naturally my battery was one of those sealed maintenance free idiot proof batterys, so it took me some time to get into the cells. All the cells were low, so I put about a cup or more of water/2 tablespoons Epson salt in it. Charged it again, but it still would not turn over the engine. Jumped the mower off from my tractor battery and at least the engine would charge the battery enough to mow. I mowed about 3 hours before shutting it down. I did try to crank my mower again when I was done and to my surprise, she spun over strong and fire right up. So evidently the bouncing around of the battery and Ebson salts inside must have done something good. So the day wasn't a total loss.

 

[Soundguy]

just get another fitting. you can find a compression fitting for the block .. then just clean the line and use a good feroule and it should be fine. btdt..

 

[MitchellB]

I drove around to about 8 different stores and shops either trying to find a replacement line (Ford = $99.00), new 1/8" flaring tool or a shop that could flare the tubing for me with zero results. One place (Alliance Hose & Tube Works) who said they could flare it when another shop called them for me that I was at; to my horror cut off about 2" of my already shorten line only to tell me they could not flare it either. I did find a copper 1/8" oil pressure line at Advance Auto for about $5 that include compression fittings, but that also means buying new matching fittings to go in my block and oil pressure gauge, but I bought the line just in case. In the mean time, I found an old used flaring tool on eBay that is supposed to go down to 1/8" that is on the way. If that don't work, I will try to flare the copper tubing I bought so I can use my old ends. If that don't work, I will replace the fittings in the block and gauge to use the copper line with the compression fittings. Over all, it is a seemingly simple part/fix that has been a royal pain. Waiting on the flare tool to arrive now.

I been working on the injectors, taking them apart and cleaning them. One of the copper washers are missing. I must have lost it, but I thought I was being careful to keep everything together, but who knows. Just another problem I can blame on the 861 demon that haunts this machine. The Ford New Holland dealer I called this morning says they are $5.22 each for a little copper washer and $195.80 for a replacement injector if I need one. He also rather rudely told me he does not give out part numbers. Never had that problem before! I guess it is to keep me from going somewhere else and buying the part, which is exactly what I plan to do. Anyone got a part number for these Simms injectors for a 861 diesel.

Can I test the injectors before I install them? How? I found a Pop diesel fuel injector tester online that I though might tell me if it is spraying correctly, but I hate to spend the money for it if it will not work on these Simms injectors or there is another simpler test I can do. I worry about the idea of putting them back in, if one or all of them are defective in some way. One injector had a lot of soot/carbon on the tip, another had a stuck needle seat inside the tip, another is made completely different inside for the return fuel than the other 3. I just want to be sure these work before burying them under the rocker arm, valve cover and fuel tank only to have to dig them out later if one is screwed up.

 

[kf4uda]

You don't need your dealer for part numbers. You can get them direct from the new holland site.

Official New Holland Online Parts Store and Online Parts Catalog for New Holland and Ford Tractors.

 

[MitchellB]

Another little tidbit. Before I installed my coolant thermostat and spout to the front of my engine, I had the idea to test it in a pan of boiling water because before I shut this tractor down when I had problems at the beginning of this thread, it seemed to be overheating also (but did not have a temp gauge on the tractor at the time to confirm it). Anyway the old Ford thermostat was closed so I figured the hot water should open it up. It does open, but not until after the water begins boiling. Then after it cools, it would not close again, but was stuck open. (glad I tested it). I figured a thermostat would be a cheap easy fix, but whoa Ford is proud of there thermostats - $40! I finally found a cross over number online to a Slant thermostat #13358 that is supposed to work for $5 that is on order.

 

[MitchellB]

Thanks for the parts catalog link. I had looked there before, but could never find any older model tractor like mine. That is what I needed. Thanks again.

 

[wmonroe]

Call around to local diesel repair shops and see if they will test the injectors for you. From the sounds of it they might be due for a rebuild.

 

[Soundguy]

you.. that thermostat is a common one used in auto's. carquest has it for 4.88

as to your oil line issue. you've doen 100X mor ethan I would have.

the new fitting for the blok and some 1/8 cap line is the real easy fast fix.

Another little tidbit. Before I installed my coolant thermostat and spout to the front of my engine, I had the idea to test it in a pan of boiling water because before I shut this tractor down when I had problems at the beginning of this thread, it seemed to be overheating also (but did not have a temp gauge on the tractor at the time to confirm it). Anyway the old Ford thermostat was closed so I figured the hot water should open it up. It does open, but not until after the water begins boiling. Then after it cools, it would not close again, but was stuck open. (glad I tested it). I figured a thermostat would be a cheap easy fix, but whoa Ford is proud of there thermostats - $40! I finally found a cross over number online to a Slant thermostat #13358 that is supposed to work for $5 that is on order.

 

[MitchellB]

I got the intake and exhaust manifolds on today. There was a bolt on the center of the exhaust that can only be installed at the same time that the intake manifold is put on due to the length of the bolt. I remember it was a bear to take them off. There is also a stud behind the exhaust manifold that holds the intake on (second from the front) on that took me 1/2 day to not only tighten it but I could just barely touch it with one finger because it was under the exhaust manifold. I ended up having to take an old box wrench and grind the head around it was thin enough to fit between the nut and intake casting (like a thin walled socket) before I could ever get a wrench on it.

Motor tested the generator (spun OK) before I put it back on, wired it up and tightened the fan belt.

My new thermostat is installed.

I went ahead and put my oil filter on and filled the crankcase with motor oil too.

Got the tubes casting that the hydraulic pump sits on bolted back on. I think I will wait to make sure I have no issues with the engine running correctly before I install the pump and test the hydraulic system though.

That pesky oil pressure line issue bugs me still. I got my used fleeBay flaring tool today that I was told goes down to 1/8". Well, it just goes down to 3/16" like my other one does. Maybe I can get my money back on that. So I've decided to replace the entire line with the copper line kit that I bought. I got to go Monday to buy an elbow that will take it into the block, but luckily I had a fitting that fit the pressure gauge.

I also found a set of used fuel injectors cheap online today. My plan is between my 4 and these 4 (when they arrive), I should have enough parts be able to make 4 good ones. I got to researching injectors and from what it would cost me to pay someone else test them and maybe clean/repair/replace parts or injectors, I can just buy the pressure hand pump and do it myself. May even be able to get most of my money back if I want to resell the pump later. My book says they are supposed to pop off at 2750 pounds give or take 50 pounds, are supposed to be adjustable and spray in four directions. Well see.

 

[Soundguy]

if yuo get a compression fitting for the block, my advice is to NOT use an elbow.. but a straight one. make a sloping bend from it to the oil gauge. should work fine. Mine do.

 

[MitchellB]

Looks to me like I have to use and elbow at the block. That oil pressure connection is right behind my hydraulic pump. I set my pump on there to be sure and looks like there is a small indention in the back of the pump that is just enough room to fit an elbow pointing to the front of the engine to sit. I don't think a straight connection would fit.

 

[TomSeller]

if yuo get a compression fitting for the block, my advice is to NOT use an elbow.. but a straight one. make a sloping bend from it to the oil gauge. should work fine. Mine do.

What problem was the elbow introducing?

 

[Soundguy]

What problem was the elbow introducing?

2 problems

1, none available locally!

2, hard to take elbow off with pump in the way, not so with straight fitting!

 

[MitchellB]

I got my radiator back on Sunday.

Monday I picked up an elbow at NAPA and some other stuff at Tractor Supply I needed. I finially put a new copper 1/8" oil pressure line on the tractor and filled the transmission with new 80w90.
Today I fabricated me an "old man" step for the left side of my tractor from some scrap I had laying around. My knees don't bend like they used to and this 861 is a couple inches higher than my 8N.


I also cranked the lawn mower today after it has sit over the past week and the battery fired right up good and strong. That trick with the ebsom salt in the battery really did work. I'll have to remember that for future use. Mowed some with it today, mostly just blew/chopped leaves into piles.

 

[wmonroe]

You're getting close now, hopefully soon you'll be enjoying that tractor. On a side note if you ever want to get rid of those rear pie weights I would love to take them off your hands.

 

[MitchellB]

This morning I took out the pressure relief value from under the tractor as suggested by Soundguy. I wasn't sure what to expect, but I did finally locate a few paragraphs in my book about how to take it out. I had poured some diesel fuel down inside of the tractor it several days ago and and drained and blew out all that with my air hose, so I think the inside tank was as clean as I could get it without taking it apart. The valve was not real dirty, but I cleaned it up and put new o-rings on it from an o-ring kit I had. The only thing I noticed that I did not like was it seems someone had put a drop of spot weld on top of the slotted screw in the top end. Luckily, it was not fused very well and broke off without much prying or penetration. I assume it was put there to prevent the screw head from backing out (or going in). I took the screw, spring assembly and ball out to clean, but when I put it back together, just placed a drop of lok-tight on the treads to hopefully keep it from moving before I put it all back in the tractor. Filled the tank up with 2 gallons of UTF from Tractor Supply.

I think I am on hold for a few days, until my extra injectors and pressure tester arrive. It is a shame too, because the weather around here is fantastic for this late in the month of October and it is great to be working outside.

By the way, I had a place online quote me a price on 4 little copper washers for the injectors; $55. They're copper, not gold! I'm still looking.

wmonroe, I've had a lot of compliments and lusting for those wheel weights. I don't know that I really need them for what little work I plan for this tractor, but until I get some time in the saddle to see what this heavy 861D can do compared to my little 8N that I've used so many years, I guess I'll keep them on there for now.

I do remember once getting my 8N bogged down to the rear axle in black mud pulling a trailer of wood behind it, so I imagine this heavy 861 would have sunk even deeper. I pulled the 8N out with a come-along chained to a tree (without the trailer attached). Not so sure I could have done that as easily with weighted 861D.

By the way, the guy I bought this from claims that after he had the fuel pump serviced, he was told to crank it every week or so, to prevent the diesel fuel pump from having problems. I had thought that was one of the advantages to diesel was being able to let them sit unused for long periods of time without problems. ?????