A windpower first

[Egon]

Boy, that list is fully inclusive and not slanted in any way is it? Someone should be fired for posting or accepting that data in that way.

In other words it does not agree with your ideas?

 

[Egon]

I have posted before I worked on a wind farm 60 turbines, about a year before I retired. I did survey work and did a lot of construction layout. Just me driving a pickup burned hundred of gallons of gas. A mind boggling amount of materials were delivered and installed. All this burning thousands of gallons of gas and diesel.

My point is how long does it take for all this fossil being expended building a wind farm before it balances out? I tried to find this information but couldn’t and of course it varies by location.

Im not saying wind farms are bad or good, I just wonder what the net gain is on fossil fuels being expended is.

Perhaps think about the resources required for building a nuclear/coal fired power plant. Then add in the requirements for “after the event“ pollution mitigation. Things like acid rain or the destruction of the Appalachian Streams. ( water quality )

 

[sea2summit]

In other words it does not agree with your ideas?

Not at all, the list is not complete and is very open to double counts on things like antenna masts, power, power lines, etc. There are numbers listed N/A which we can very safely assume are not 0. Then there are pure assumed numbers. This appears to be cherry picked data off of a number of different studies which I’m fully believing double count and gloss over other kills.

Someone else posted some pictures of oil spill victims. The first birds I rehabbed/helped rehab where actually Exxon Valdez birds. Spent a number of years working with Dr Scott and the early days of “Brid TLC” during the winter months.

 

[sea2summit]

Perhaps think about the resources required for building a nuclear/coal fired power plant. Then add in the requirements for “after the event“ pollution mitigation. Things like acid rain or the destruction of the Appalachian Streams. ( water quality )

Nuclear and coal are very different environmental impacts. Coal is horrible no question. I haven’t seen a megawatt to megawatt analysis of wind or solar to nuclear but I bet nuclear comes in out ahead in constriction costs and impacts…until you have to store the leftovers.

 

[Hay Dude]

Theres a different type of nuclear we dont seem to want to use

This list is almost 10 years old, so there may be some changes ....

Solar: Anywhere from about 1,000 birds a year, according to BrightSource, to 28,000 birds a year, according to an expert at the Center for Biological Diversity.

Wind: Between 140,000 and 328,000 birds a year in the contiguous United States, according to a December 2013 study published in the journal Biological Conservation. Taller turbines tend to take out more birds.

Oil and Gas: An estimated 500,000 to 1 million birds a year are killed in oil fields, the Bureau of Land Management said in a December 2012 memo.
[DATA MINE: Natural Gas to See Biggest Gains in Coal Country]

Coal: Huge numbers of birds, roughly 7.9 million, may be killed by coal, according to analysis by Benjamin K. Sovacool, director of the Danish Center for Energy Technologies. His estimate, however, included everything from mining to production and climate change, which together amounted to about five birds per gigawatt-hour of energy generated by coal.

Nuclear: About 330,000 birds, by Sovacool’s calculations.

https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/08/22/pecking-order-energys-toll-on-birds

You’re hilarious.…. “huge numbers of birds may be killed by coal” Oh gee, theres some REAL science there!
Sounds like asking a guy how many women he’s slept with.
So using his calculations, if we have wind & solar energy, rough math looks like it’ll kill just as many birds as oil & gas. What an improvement! lol

 

[Ken45101]

.... Natural gas, wind, and solar are cheaper than coal.

I doubt wind or solar are cheaper than anything if you take away government subsides and enticements. Plus be sure to include the full cost of backup systems for those very cold, windless nights when demand is high.

 

[sd455dan]

When are they gonna figure out what to do with the garbage?
View attachment 741929

Or stop killing endangered/protected birds that a farmer would go to jail for?
View attachment 741930

Interesting question, I find it hopeful that wind generation is being installed at some chemical/oil superfund sites to provide energy.

https://semspub.epa.gov/work/11/175561.pdf

We do need OIL / GAS / Nuclear (Fission) reactors for Quite some time to come, and pretty much any new tech and renewables going forward imo should be welcomed, especially if they make financial sense.

If they can get compact Fusion reactors to work in the near future,
It would change the world for the better.

For now, "if" America could get a slew of molten salt reactors installed, it would really help the US decentralize and reinforce our power grid.

 

[orezok]

When are they gonna figure out what to do with the garbage?
View attachment 741929

Or stop killing endangered/protected birds that a farmer would go to jail for?
View attachment 741930Every year 2 or 3 birds die by flying into my house (the ones i find). Plus there are probably 10 more strikes where I don’t find a carcus.

When are they gonna figure out what to do with the garbage?
View attachment 741929

Or stop killing endangered/protected birds that a farmer would go to jail for?
View attachment 741930

Every year i find 2 or 3 birds that are dead around my house due to “bird strikes”. An additional 10 strikes or so also occur, but maybe those birds survived or just died somewhere else. It would appear that we should eliminate housing to save birds.

 

[5030]

If the wind turbine crowd really wants to increase their power output, all they need to do is erect a wind farm installation that completely surrounds Washington DC because the amount of wind that politicians create could actually be harnessed for something good.

 

[workinonit]

I'm at a combined cycle plant in Georgia right now commissioning replacement voltage regulators on 2 gas turbines and a steam turbine, total of maybe 500 MW. Within a rock's throw are 3 coal fired units that will be decommissioned in August. Southern Company has no replacement power for the. 2 of them are 1000 MW each and the third is cloase to that. Our federal government is very rapidly greening us into a critical situation in this country that there won't be and quick resolution for. Coal plants will be gone by the end of this decade and folks like the OP have nukes next on the list, which are also closing at a breakneck pace. Without government subsidies there might not be any wind mills in this country. The wind doesn't always blow.

 

[5030]

Like I said, it ALWAYS blows in DC.

 

[Ken45101]

I'm at a combined cycle plant in Georgia right now commissioning replacement voltage regulators on 2 gas turbines and a steam turbine, total of maybe 500 MW. Within a rock's throw are 3 coal fired units that will be decommissioned in August. Southern Company has no replacement power for the. 2 of them are 1000 MW each and the third is cloase to that. Our federal government is very rapidly greening us into a critical situation in this country that there won't be and quick resolution for. Coal plants will be gone by the end of this decade and folks like the OP have nukes next on the list, which are also closing at a breakneck pace. Without government subsidies there might not be any wind mills in this country. The wind doesn't always blow.

Plus, of course, they magically expect the reduced electric capacity to charge the millions of electric vehicles they plan to force on us. Where is that additional power coming from?

Just wait, of course, for the windless, extreme cold winter nights when blackouts occur. Homes will be frigid, and electric vehicle cannot be charged...

 

[jmc]

Speaking of federal power subsidies, if Iraq weren't sitting on oil, we wouldn't have gotten sucked into that quagmire (twice) to begin with. Power subsidies come in various forms.

 

[Hay Dude]

Plus, of course, they magically expect the reduced electric capacity to charge the millions of electric vehicles they plan to force on us. Where is that additional power coming from?

Just wait, of course, for the windless, extreme cold winter nights when blackouts occur. Homes will be frigid, and electric vehicle cannot be charged...

NEWSFLASH: THEY DON’T CARE!
The elites and those in charge will have all the power (electrical) they need and either a government supplied, fully charged vehicle or a chauffeur.

Its time to get back to common sense in this country, or we are doomed.

 

[5030]

The wind doesn't always blow.

And the sun don't always shine either. While not in the industry directly, I can see that base load capacity will fast become an issue and now we have all there citizens buying electric cars and rechargeable tools and air conditioners and everything power intensive. Consequently, the brown outs and grid failures will become more common and of course the citizens will whine about it.

I'm guilty too, I like my rechargeable tools, I like the convenience and i'm looking hard at a battery powered zero turn lawnmower. EGO just came out with a dandy, capable of mowing 2+ acres on a single charge, 47" deck. I'm really tired of dealing with belts and changing oil and spark plugs and starting batteries that have to be renewed every year, let alone the stinky now expensive gasoline too. Might purchase one this summer, but I'm also thinking of erecting a solar array with a charge controller to provide the energy to charge it with and probably my battery powered tools as well.

Tossing it around.

 

[dodge man]

We bought e bikes several months ago.I don’t remember the exact numbers but the amount of electricity it takes to charge them is small. Cordless tools are the same, small amounts of electricity. Electric cars on the other hand…….

 

[5030]

We bought e bikes several months ago.I don’t remember the exact numbers but the amount of electricity it takes to charge them is small. Cordless tools are the same, small amounts of electricity. Electric cars on the other hand…….

Keep on mind that a little here and a little there all adds up and it all imposes an additional load on the grid and base load capacity. No free ride that I'm aware of.

 

[Ken45101]

We bought e bikes several months ago.I don’t remember the exact numbers but the amount of electricity it takes to charge them is small. Cordless tools are the same, small amounts of electricity. Electric cars on the other hand…….

Be extremely careful when they are on charge. FDNY has documented many fires started by charging bikes, including some major fires and fatalities.

FDNY issues stark warning after e-bikes spark multiple fires in 1-week span

Multiple injuries were reported in four separate fires, the FDNY said.

www.silive.com

Massive fire that tore through Bronx building sparked by e-bike battery: FDNY

A massive fire that tore through a six-story Bronx building early Saturday, seriously injuring a firefighter, was sparked by a charging e-bike battery in a ground-floor restaurant, FDNY officials s…

www.nydailynews.com

And many more pop up on a search.

Ken

 

[dodge man]

We have pretty good e bikes, they are Treks and have a Bosch motor and battery setup. That said yes they could be a fire hazard. They are in my shop so if they did catch fire it wouldn’t kill us in our sleep but would do a lot of damage, between cars, tools and the building.

 

[AchingBack]

And the sun don't always shine either. While not in the industry directly, I can see that base load capacity will fast become an issue and now we have all there citizens buying electric cars and rechargeable tools and air conditioners and everything power intensive. Consequently, the brown outs and grid failures will become more common and of course the citizens will whine about it.

I'm guilty too, I like my rechargeable tools, I like the convenience and i'm looking hard at a battery powered zero turn lawnmower. EGO just came out with a dandy, capable of mowing 2+ acres on a single charge, 47" deck. I'm really tired of dealing with belts and changing oil and spark plugs and starting batteries that have to be renewed every year, let alone the stinky now expensive gasoline too. Might purchase one this summer, but I'm also thinking of erecting a solar array with a charge controller to provide the energy to charge it with and probably my battery powered tools as well.

Tossing it around.

I'm going to buy the EGO ZT6, and hopefully it will be at my ACE hardware where I will obtain over 5,000 points while doing so. And I will use my credit card to receive more rewards. Then, when the bill comes I will pay in full rather than paying cash for the purchase. It's a win win deal.

I'm sold on EGO: I have the self-propelled mower, (works perfectly after 5 years), and the power head which accepts a string trimmer, hedge trimmer, and pole saw.