Aluminum really inferior for tractors???

[_RaT_]

I'd like to point out one thing.. This from a guy with a 2wd tractor and 'oldie' laoder. ( 1955 ford 660 w/ 722 loader ).

While my 2wd, no power steering tractor may not have a huge bucket.. or PS.. or 4wd.. it will break out 1200# and lift 1000# to full height in about 2.5 seconds.

And it beats the pants off a shovel and wheel barrow.. hands down.. no comparison....

Also.. re: 4wd vs 2wd. It's all in application.

I traded a 4wd tractor for a 2wd tractor... The bulk of my chores include mowing flat ground.. I get plent of traction from those 2 big rear tires to do what I need to do..

Soundguy

Of course living in a state that is basically flat helps too.

 

[slowrev]

Um, hmm. And, if you've used it, you're going to tell me that it is even 50% as effective as an FEL on a 4X4 tractor? Even the Case 580E hoe I had that was 2wd absolutely sucked when I had a bucket full of dirt or wet sand. If I needed to backup any sort of incline at all, I'd have to spin around and use the hoe to pull myself backwards. That sort of drops productivity in a big way.

The point is that industry wide the fact that having versitile weight arrangements and 4X4 is the norm. Even at the extremely large farms around me, they go with duals on each corner and, when the fields are wet, triples on each corner. The point is that shear weight on 2 wheels is a thing of the past. To get enough weight on the rear two wheels to be able to handle a reasonable load in the front bucket, you'd have to counterweight the heck out of the tractor; even to the point where it would be unstable without a full load in the front bucket. Even then, the farmer as well as homeowner does not want the compaction that would result.

Having a reasonably light weight tractor with 4X4 or MFWD has proven far superior for obvious reasons. You can add weight when you need it, but you can also use it effectively without adding weight. And, as I stated earlier, my main tractor, although 4X4, does fall into the 'heavy' category. I'd rather be able to be lighter at times if I had the choice. If I'm wrong here, you better go tell every single dealer in the country that they are stocking the wrong tractors, and they need to start ordering 2wd heavy tractors again and sell chains with the FEL's that a few people may add.

I am not saying 4wd is not better, but nearly usless ??? NO way!. Hmm I have picked up f150 pickups and loaded them on trailers. That loader dug and moved a lot of dirt, dug 3 ponds, etc. My tractor with loader cost 4k how much was yours I can dig slate rock with no fear of bending my bucket either. It also has hydrostatic power steering, so no problem there.

Perhaps you are talking about the little 2wd tractors ?

 

[slowrev]

Of course living in a state that is basically flat helps too.

Not flat here

 

[Toolguy]

Henro,

I am not sure about your B2910, but from what I have seen, the three tractors I mentioned have basically all the same major components. I am sure that the B3030 trans and rear axle housing are aluminum. Try checking your tractor with a smaller magnet if you are not sure. Those housings are full of steel and a strong magnet will not be stopped by a relatively thin layer of aluminum. Why does it matter anyway? If you are happy with the performance of your tractor then it's all good.

 

[RobJ]

Actually, some of the ancient design 2wd tractors are just that; a glorified lawn mower. Without 4X4 as most all modern CUTS have, they lack any real pulling ability and all weight is for naught. A light weight 4X4 with (mostly standard) weights on the front will make the 50 and 60 year old designs obsolete and they will not only pull considerably more, but an FEL is almost useless on a 2wd tractor. That's why you almost never see a real workable FEL on an old 8N tractor. If they had a decent sized bucket and filled it, they would need another tractor to help pull them backwards.

I was waiting for that "glorified lawn mower" comment to get someone...didn't take long.

So a FEL is useless on a 2wd, Then I guess all the tractor places around east Texas are selling the wrong ones. And we have some hilly land around here! Or we're getting all the dumb 2wd left overs. You really only see the 4wd on the CUT and SCUT which need the 4wd so they can pull themselves on wet grass because they are so light. I think we've also seen plenty of 4x4 CUT's stuck in the mud. The 4x4 just gets you stuck further from the dry stuff and as a bonus will bury the front axle. And I won't go in the mud with my 2wd L because it's not made for bogging like my atv's. The simple truth is the they are made from aluminum to keep them light because the work they are intended to do is on the lighter side. Just because it has a FEL and 4x4 doesn't mean it can tote a 1500# round bale of hay around...especially when the whole tractor weighs 1200#. And I don't think you'll see a 250hp tractor pulling a 12 or 16 row disk made from all aluminum.

Really though, a FEL is useless on a 2wd?

 

[Soundguy]

For as nice as a 4wd/loader is.. I'm still very glad I have my 2wd/loader tractor.. it sure beats the heck out of the wheelbarrow I used to use.

That's another point.. size of tractor. You see a wide variety of small 4wd.. and you also see some pretty large 2wd's. I like the look of a ford 8000 / 9600 with dual rears. I know that baby will pull.

4wd / mud?

When i had my NH 1920 with 4wd/ ag tires.. I crossed a 'dry' pond one day. Before I could hit the clutch and stop, I sunk to the axles in muck. I tried for a second in reverse with the diffy lock on.. but I had high centered. To make matters worse.. I had a brush mower on that was actually lifted and floating on the muck.

It took a buddy with a 20' tow strap, 2 shovels, and 4 guys to dig my tires out, and them put lumber and my trailer ramps under the tires so it could be pulled and drive out. The ground was so wet, the truck could barely get close enough to pull with the 20' strap. The first pull pulled me back about 5' where I sunk again... more digging.. etc.. then i finally got out. Was a total of 4 hours of work to get free.. My ramps were buried 3' in muck.. I lost a shoe.. .. all this for a free mowing job i was doing for a friend... when his frined came over and said his jeep was stuck and could we pull him out with the tractor.... go figure... if I can't get there in 2wd.. I don't try.. cause if i have to use 4wd to get there.. likely I'll need a tow vehicle to get out... chevron tred ain't great in reverse..

Soundguy

I was waiting for that "glorified lawn mower" comment to get someone...didn't take long.

So a FEL is useless on a 2wd, Then I guess all the tractor places around east Texas are selling the wrong ones. And we have some hilly land around here! Or we're getting all the dumb 2wd left overs. You really only see the 4wd on the CUT and SCUT which need the 4wd so they can pull themselves on wet grass because they are so light. I think we've also seen plenty of 4x4 CUT's stuck in the mud. The 4x4 just gets you stuck further from the dry stuff and as a bonus will bury the front axle. And I won't go in the mud with my 2wd L because it's not made for bogging like my atv's. The simple truth is the they are made from aluminum to keep them light because the work they are intended to do is on the lighter side. Just because it has a FEL and 4x4 doesn't mean it can tote a 1500# round bale of hay around...especially when the whole tractor weighs 1200#. And I don't think you'll see a 250hp tractor pulling a 12 or 16 row disk made from all aluminum.

Really though, a FEL is useless on a 2wd?

 

[Dargo]

You really only see the 4wd on the CUT and SCUT which need the 4wd so they can pull themselves on wet grass because they are so light. I think we've also seen plenty of 4x4 CUT's stuck in the mud. The 4x4 just gets you stuck further from the dry stuff and as a bonus will bury the front axle. And I won't go in the mud with my 2wd L because it's not made for bogging like my atv's. The simple truth is the they are made from aluminum to keep them light because the work they are intended to do is on the lighter side. Just because it has a FEL and 4x4 doesn't mean it can tote a 1500# round bale of hay around...especially when the whole tractor weighs 1200#. And I don't think you'll see a 250hp tractor pulling a 12 or 16 row disk made from all aluminum.

Really though, a FEL is useless on a 2wd?

Actually, the largest most powerful pulling tractors built in the world are 4X4. Duh!! I thought they had "big" things in Texas! To pull the big disks, plows etc., most of our larger Ag tractors have triples on each corner. Zero, zip, nada, none are two wheel drive. I've actually had the opportunity to work around some of the largest earth movers and loaders made in strip mines. None were 2 wheel drive. It doesn't work!@!@ You pick up a large load and try to back up a slight hill to fill a large truck and you simply spin. It's called THE LAW OF PHYSICS.

As I said, my tractors are actually heavy, but they are ALL 4 wd if I use a loader. We are off the subject a bit, but you'll convince me that a 2 wd tractor is better at loader use about as easy as you will convince me that the Atlantic ocean has no salt in it. It's the same, it violates all laws of physics and logic. Again, duh!

 

[Dargo]

4wd / mud?

When i had my NH 1920 with 4wd/ ag tires.. I crossed a 'dry' pond one day. Before I could hit the clutch and stop, I sunk to the axles in muck. I tried for a second in reverse with the diffy lock on.. but I had high centered. To make matters worse.. I had a brush mower on that was actually lifted and floating on the muck.

Sorry Chris, I usually agree with you, but I have 35 years of mudding, 4 wheeling, and mud bogging behind me. I have way too much personal experience to buy anything about 2wd being superior to 4wd in mud, snow, pulling, or especially loader work.

 

[Bob_Young]

To get back on topic, I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

1)What, if anything, is tougher/stouter/more durable on modern CUTs than on traditional utility type Ag tractors of 40 to 50 years ago?

2)What is that component made of; iron or aluminum?

Answers:

1)the (4WD) front axles. Nowadays the front axles are designed for loader usage and must, at times, be able to support the the loader, whatever's in the bucket, acceleration loads and possibly the rest of the tractor (if the bucket is grossly overloaded). As has been pointed out above, the kind of bucket loads that are easily possible today with 4WD weren't practical in the past with a 2WD. Failure of the front axle under a heavy bucket load could be catastrophic and lead to lawsuits.

2)axles and housings made of iron and steel.

The point is that, even today, when the manufacturers know strength is a top priority in a given component and a failure will result in lawsuits, they go with iron/steel.
Bob

 

[Soundguy]

Sorry Chris, I usually agree with you, but I have 35 years of mudding, 4 wheeling, and mud bogging behind me. I have way too much personal experience to buy anything about 2wd being superior to 4wd in mud, snow, pulling, or especially loader work.

So uh.. what part of my message here said anything about 2wd being better in the mud than 4wd???? I said if I can't get there in 2wd.. I won't even try in 4wd.. as I'll only get stuck farther out...

Soundguy